So much Richo hate.

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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby st.byron » Mon 16 Apr 2018 10:25pm

tony74 wrote:
Pretty spot on. We have many coaches and unfortunately due to financial issues a lot of them have other jobs. As an example five of them weren’t at the game on Sunday, that doesn’t help. Richo is not the problem, he’s certainly not the Messiah, but he’s not a fool either. He knows his craft. As I mentioned in a previous post you’ll see a vastly different approach against the GWS. Probably somewhere in between the previous game and the next one ( hopefully) will be the sweet spot. I’m stating the bleeding obvious but if we just nail our first few chances watch the heads rise.


Tony, with respect, the buck stops with Richo. He comes across as all system and process, stuck in them even when they dont work, and no gut level inspiration. Casting the reasons for the dismal season so far at the feet of some indeterminate factor that can be remedied by nailing some early chances and heads lifting strikes me as massive denial of how crap we are and how badly things aren’t working. We’ve kicked 5, 7 and 7 goals. I really hope your comments dont reflect a club wide level of denial, coz if they do we are absolutely stuffed.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby Zed » Mon 16 Apr 2018 10:27pm

The fish rots from the head

Let’s have a look at Richmond 2 years ago who couldn’t make the 8 and were a very average team. Apart from their top 3 or 4 players, they still are a very average squad.

But what did their heirachy do ?,- got some new quality assistants, put in Neil Balme as Football Manager and away they went.

Our problems in recruitment have been plain to see for a couple of years now yet nothing was done about it. Ok, we went and got Playfair . If Richo is as good as they say, then bite the bullet and surround him with some fresh assistants because the ones there now aren’t influencing him correctly.

It’s time for Finnis and Lethlean to earn their salaries and actively contribute to rebuilding the football department.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby Yorkeys » Mon 16 Apr 2018 10:36pm

See the body language between Richo and Kingsley after the game courtesy of AFL360 vision. Hard to think there is any collegial warmth or shared friendship there. In the background was Lethlean looking daggers and despair. Power struggle going on internally between the transition coach and senior coach? Do they go fishing together.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby congorozides » Mon 16 Apr 2018 10:43pm

Zed wrote:The fish rots from the head

Let’s have a look at Richmond 2 years ago who couldn’t make the 8 and were a very average team. Apart from their top 3 or 4 players, they still are a very average squad.

But what did their heirachy do ?,- got some new quality assistants, put in Neil Balme as Football Manager and away they went.

Our problems in recruitment have been plain to see for a couple of years now yet nothing was done about it. Ok, we went and got Playfair . If Richo is as good as they say, then bite the bullet and surround him with some fresh assistants because the ones there now aren’t influencing him correctly.

It’s time for Finnis and Lethlean to earn their salaries and actively contribute to rebuilding the football department.


It wasnt that simple.

Richmond had a 10 week comprehensive review conducted by Ernst & Young in October 2016.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby st.byron » Mon 16 Apr 2018 10:54pm

congorozides wrote:
Zed wrote:The fish rots from the head

Let’s have a look at Richmond 2 years ago who couldn’t make the 8 and were a very average team. Apart from their top 3 or 4 players, they still are a very average squad.

But what did their heirachy do ?,- got some new quality assistants, put in Neil Balme as Football Manager and away they went.

Our problems in recruitment have been plain to see for a couple of years now yet nothing was done about it. Ok, we went and got Playfair . If Richo is as good as they say, then bite the bullet and surround him with some fresh assistants because the ones there now aren’t influencing him correctly.

It’s time for Finnis and Lethlean to earn their salaries and actively contribute to rebuilding the football department.


It wasnt that simple.

Richmond had a 10 week comprehensive review conducted by Ernst & Young in October 2016.


They also addressed their ‘mental issues’ beyond the outdated “have a chat with a sports psychologist” model and concurrently addressed how they bond and relate as a team. This is where the cutting edge is.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby Trixilver » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:04pm

The 2 most important stats in a game are kicking efficiency and goal accuracy. Both of which we are terrible at. Fix those 2 things and we win 90% of our games.

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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby Teflon » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:07pm

Trixilver wrote:The 2 most important stats in a game are kicking efficiency and goal accuracy. Both of which we are terrible at. Fix those 2 things and we win 90% of our games.

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Don’t think it’s that easy without looking at why we suck at both
For one entries into fwd 50 have been deplorable for some time - not just the forwards but those bringing the ball fwd of centre look like headless chooks hence why we have to scrape, scrounge and hope for a fumble from opposition to score
We have poor structure - that’s the coach
I see dumb people...
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby DJ Higgins » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:17pm

Linton Lodger wrote:F**k me, Drake, to allay one of your fears. Do you honestly believe that if this continues for another year or two, Richo will see out his contract? No bloody way.

Try and visualise this continuing into 2019/2020 and Richo still been the Coach. You cannot, it simply won't happen. In fact if it continues for the rest of this year, I'm sure there will be dramatic changes at season's end.


LL,

that is good in theory but how do we get rid of him. He wont quit, why would he? He is on heaps of money for the money and will be for 3 year and will not give that up. So that leaves paying him out. We are on notice from the AFL that we must run our business better so what do we do, pay out a contract for 2 years and then go into more debt. i just cant see that happening,So we are screwed unless there is a performance clause in the contract.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby fingers » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:19pm

saintspremiers wrote:I’d love to ask Finnis in person why was the extension given. And if there is a performance based out clause.

I’m furious at Finnis.

The buck stops at HIM.

He’s on notice from NOW!


I'm sure he's going to jump right to it now ! :lol:
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby magnifisaint » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:32pm

Richo is such a decent and nice man. I'm not sure what the hell is going on. Is it him that's out of his depth or was it the retirements of Roo and Montagna that has caused this dilemma?
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby saynta » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:44pm

st.byron wrote:
tony74 wrote:
Pretty spot on. We have many coaches and unfortunately due to financial issues a lot of them have other jobs. As an example five of them weren’t at the game on Sunday, that doesn’t help. Richo is not the problem, he’s certainly not the Messiah, but he’s not a fool either. He knows his craft. As I mentioned in a previous post you’ll see a vastly different approach against the GWS. Probably somewhere in between the previous game and the next one ( hopefully) will be the sweet spot. I’m stating the bleeding obvious but if we just nail our first few chances watch the heads rise.


Tony, with respect, the buck stops with Richo. He comes across as all system and process, stuck in them even when they dont work, and no gut level inspiration. Casting the reasons for the dismal season so far at the feet of some indeterminate factor that can be remedied by nailing some early chances and heads lifting strikes me as massive denial of how crap we are and how badly things aren’t working. We’ve kicked 5, 7 and 7 goals. I really hope your comments dont reflect a club wide level of denial, coz if they do we are absolutely stuffed.


Wow, a SS nuff nuff who thinks he knows more than a club employee.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby Teflon » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:47pm

saynta wrote:
st.byron wrote:
tony74 wrote:
Pretty spot on. We have many coaches and unfortunately due to financial issues a lot of them have other jobs. As an example five of them weren’t at the game on Sunday, that doesn’t help. Richo is not the problem, he’s certainly not the Messiah, but he’s not a fool either. He knows his craft. As I mentioned in a previous post you’ll see a vastly different approach against the GWS. Probably somewhere in between the previous game and the next one ( hopefully) will be the sweet spot. I’m stating the bleeding obvious but if we just nail our first few chances watch the heads rise.


Tony, with respect, the buck stops with Richo. He comes across as all system and process, stuck in them even when they dont work, and no gut level inspiration. Casting the reasons for the dismal season so far at the feet of some indeterminate factor that can be remedied by nailing some early chances and heads lifting strikes me as massive denial of how crap we are and how badly things aren’t working. We’ve kicked 5, 7 and 7 goals. I really hope your comments dont reflect a club wide level of denial, coz if they do we are absolutely stuffed.


Wow, a SS nuff nuff who thinks he knows more than a club employee.


Club coming off a low base me thinks...
I see dumb people...
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby congorozides » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:47pm

Nobody hates him.
Richo is obviously a terrific bloke.
Tough and courageous. Incredibly hard working. Likeable. Caring.
A genuine success in life.
Way more successful than me.
A good person all round.

But that doesnt mean he is going to make it as an AFL head coach. It is a cut throat business and only a small tiny number make it and a smaller tinier number survive.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby Linton Lodger » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:49pm

DJ Higgins wrote:
Linton Lodger wrote:F**k me, Drake, to allay one of your fears. Do you honestly believe that if this continues for another year or two, Richo will see out his contract? No bloody way.

Try and visualise this continuing into 2019/2020 and Richo still been the Coach. You cannot, it simply won't happen. In fact if it continues for the rest of this year, I'm sure there will be dramatic changes at season's end.


LL,

that is good in theory but how do we get rid of him. He wont quit, why would he? He is on heaps of money for the money and will be for 3 year and will not give that up. So that leaves paying him out. We are on notice from the AFL that we must run our business better so what do we do, pay out a contract for 2 years and then go into more debt. i just cant see that happening,So we are screwed unless there is a performance clause in the contract.


Firstly, Richo strikes me as the type of man that may fall on his sword if things became untenable. However, failing that or if he didn't come to that conclusion soon enough, then it would be time to negotiate a settlement like Gentlemen.

Richo would have to consider his reputation and what was in his long term interest professionally.

If necessary at say the end of this season, I doubt that a settlement that looked after both parties would break the bank.
Last edited by Linton Lodger on Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:54pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby parkeysainter » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:50pm

Lay off Tony74 people. He/She is the one decent poster that provides inside info on the club and some of you have a go at him/her. Not sure what his/her position is, but he/she knows things we don't know and never will. You really can't expect him to have to go into a detailed argument with every poster here either or explain what he knows in detail. Plus he will never pass us on certain things to SS.

There are so many armchair experts in this joint. Give Tony74 a break.
Last edited by parkeysainter on Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:52pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby mbogo » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:52pm

Here's hoping our coaches turn up this week!
This is a team game and there is no room for individuals who think they are above walking through the fire.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby magnifisaint » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:58pm

I hope everything clicks for him
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby prwilkinson » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:59pm

parkeysainter wrote:Lay off Tony74 people. He/She is the one decent poster that provides inside info on the club and some of you have a go at him/her. Not sure what his/her position is, but he/she knows things we don't know and never will. You really can't expect him to have to go into a detailed argument with every poster here either or explain what he knows in detail. Plus he will never pass us on certain things to SS.

There are so many armchair experts in this joint. Give Tony74 a break.


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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby David-Lee » Tue 17 Apr 2018 12:11am

Zed wrote:The fish rots from the head

Let’s have a look at Richmond 2 years ago who couldn’t make the 8 and were a very average team. Apart from their top 3 or 4 players, they still are a very average squad.

But what did their heirachy do? GO got some new quality assistants, put in Neil Balme as Football Manager and away they went.

Our problems in recruitment have been plain to see for a couple of years now yet nothing was done about it. Ok, we went and got Playfair . If Richo is as good as they say, then bite the bullet and surround him with some fresh assistants because the ones there now aren’t influencing him correctly.

It’s time for Finnis and Lethlean to earn their salaries and actively contribute to rebuilding the football department.





Everyone likes the Tigers analogy either to prove all we need to so is drop a few assistant coaches and we win a Granny OR to prove we need to give Richo 8 years and we win a granny.

Only thing is....

2013 Finished in 5th.

2014 Finished in 8th.

2015 Richmond were 15-7. Finished in 5th. They had 4 AA players polling high brownlow votes and 8 players with 6 or more brownlow votes.

2016 8-14 a big drop...blamed of course solely on the assistant coaches...but it was really the head coach. He needed someone he was accountable to who would oversee the game plan and help select game day starters. Neil certainly did that...however getting rid of Mark William's who has essentially sculpted young players to the precipice of success was ridiculous.
Trent Cotchin,Alex Rance and Dustin Martin concede if it weren't for William's they would have left the Tigers.

2017 Grand Final Winners

So over 5 seasons they were in the finals 4 times and won the grand final...not exactly a shite team that we can compare our dismal situation to...we haven't played finals for 7 years.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby BackFromUSA » Tue 17 Apr 2018 12:36am

I think we are more like Saints 2002. 2nd last but filled with promising youngsters.

Where did we end up in 2004? An unlucky 3rd.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby kalsaint » Tue 17 Apr 2018 2:31am

saintsRrising wrote:I don't hate Richo. He seems to be a nice guy.


But as a coach the things that you look for in the team do not seem to be there at present.

- Younger players developing and improving
- Gameplan: Players playing as a team with an obvious gameplan on display (or rather gameplans as most teams will normally roll out various during a game depending on how things are going). Our gamplan seems to go as far as try to apply heaps of pressure and hanball quickly and often (even when the receiver is in a poor position
- Match Day Coaching : Moves on the day to counter what the opposition are doing. (apart from throwing Carlisle forward little has been on display)

That he has been at the club so long now and that players still look like headless chooks in games is a major concern.


Also just look as some basics:

- Ball in dispute: Other clubs if a player knows he will be tackled will just keep tapping it either to a team mate or until a ball up is forced. Saints will virtually always try and pick up the ball with result that they are tackled. opponent either wins frees kick, or possession as has through St Kilda player to the ground. If the StKilda player does gain the ball normally they dispose of it blidly (ie Billings handball to Cats to set up goal. Billings saw the Cat coming, but still picked up the ball rather than just tap it on. This is endemic)
- Long bombs. Is way over used and our opposition know it. Short unmanned options are ignored to instead kick long to out out numbered Saint. Our opponents know this and set up for it.
- Run and spread when you win the ball: When our opposition sense that they are about to win the ball, you seem their team run and spread. So the player who wins the ball then have options to release to. The Saints do not do this enough. We stop and prop and our unmanned options are normally few.
etc

Now either the players are ignoring the coach, they are badly drilled or the coach is giving the wrong instructions. In all cases this is a failure in coaching.


I like Richo but on game day moves are often late. I blame recuitment more for the team kicking ability or lack of it. Thats a basic fault.

The biggest issue on the ground to me is Leadership. Theres the guy who says watch me and do it but we dont have those elites. Then theres the team leaders who provide coaching and instruction orderS. I dont see a lot of activity and physical presence to get the message across on points of accountability. All leaders and coaches need to move away from trying to be best friends and seek execution to their orders. The soldiers will react and protect the ball carriers better. The player decision making will improve. The team understanding will also improve and more time will become available to deliver on disposal skills (not overnight but certainly some improvement).

The issue we have is a team population that isnt senior enough with youths not getting sufficient game time often due to injury. I wonder why. Their bodies arent developed to handle this level for long periods. The bulk of the team is now between 100 and 200 games. Not sufficent to take charge on the ground, to set in their ways to create a spark to motivate others so we invest in you to try to generate enthusiasm .it works but you need elites to carry out the special tasks and we dont have them. A recruiting issue. Top picks not getting games should be sending a signal to recruitment so that team list management can address the skill loss. If Paddy's not getting games why didnt we get another tall forward, particularly seeing the club though a forward was so important at the time.

For the record, I didnt agree on that. We dont seek elite midfielders despite the game being a midfielders haven. Midfielders are now big enough to cover on key positions but we picked small leaving bigs to other clubs! God know why?
Midfield clearances and clear winners are needed to make an effective forward line.

You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby desertsaint » Tue 17 Apr 2018 3:13am

BackFromUSA wrote:I think we are more like Saints 2002. 2nd last but filled with promising youngsters.

Where did we end up in 2004? An unlucky 3rd.

we had six AAs playing in our team in 2002. our under 22s included Roo, Ball, McGuire, Baker, Milne, Kosi, Lenny, and Joey.
Our 23-27 year olds included Aussie, Maxy, Hamill, Gehrig, and Everitt. Harvey was a young 30 year old. Thompson and Peckett 29. We had great leaders and mentors for the youngsters all over the park, including Burke 32 and Loewe 33.
This team isn't in the same ballpark. Not within cooee.

Check out the two playing lists
2002 - https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2002/st-kilda
2018 - https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2018/st-kilda

we actually had a younger playing list in 2002. amazing when you think about it.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby loris » Tue 17 Apr 2018 3:44am

mbogo wrote:Here's hoping our coaches turn up this week!


Wouldn’t there always be 3 who don’t turn up?

Our part time ruck coach........ who is coach of Frankston.?????
Hamill - isn’t he still considered as one still connected to our coaching panel, even though he coaches Sandy
Spud......... is he still a part-time backs coach this season, even though every week his outside commitments are with Fox footy, and he doesn’t always attend Saints matches?

Who would be the other non attendees, IF I’m correct with these 3???
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby Waltzing St Kilda » Tue 17 Apr 2018 6:52am

desertsaint wrote:
BackFromUSA wrote:I think we are more like Saints 2002. 2nd last but filled with promising youngsters.

Where did we end up in 2004? An unlucky 3rd.

we had six AAs playing in our team in 2002. our under 22s included Roo, Ball, McGuire, Baker, Milne, Kosi, Lenny, and Joey.
Our 23-27 year olds included Aussie, Maxy, Hamill, Gehrig, and Everitt. Harvey was a young 30 year old. Thompson and Peckett 29. We had great leaders and mentors for the youngsters all over the park, including Burke 32 and Loewe 33.
This team isn't in the same ballpark. Not within cooee.

Check out the two playing lists
2002 - https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2002/st-kilda
2018 - https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2018/st-kilda

we actually had a younger playing list in 2002. amazing when you think about it.


This is a scary truth. We have the worst squad in my lifetime.

Then again, I think 18 teams and the rise of soccer means the talent pool is spread thin.
Teams bursting with superstars like the Hawks in the '80s or Brisbane early this century
might never be seen again.

Coaching and development are more important than ever.
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Re: So much Richo hate.

Postby magnifisaint » Tue 17 Apr 2018 7:04am

Con Gorozidis wrote:
Linton Lodger wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Watters was hated because so called ITKs started bagging him off. The fans just went along with it.
Still to this day we have never been told what was actually wrong with Watters except he upset Roo and Joey.


He lost the players (not just Roo & Joey) in spectacular fashion, that's what happened. What do you reckon Dwarf Gate was all about?

Incredible, you are merciless on Richardson and now you hint that Watters was hard done by and blame Riewoldt & Montagna. Yeah, after Lyon (who you don't rate), I'm sure they were real impressed with Watters.


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The great club insider.
The great club apologist.
What is the inside scoop?
You tell us. You are in the with club.
Us plebs have no idea.
Tell us again how those inside the club are a font of wisdom. That everything is going to plan. Under control.
That the JLT was menaingless.
Tell us oh wise inside sage.
Arent you going to name names?

Roo and Montagna hated him so much that they were talking to other clubs and wanted to be traded. A well known fact
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