Can St Kilda rebuild without dropping to the bottom 4?

[matrix]

yeah jones cant kick
it hasnt got any better and its bloody shocking


maybe watch some saints games and you'd be more educated about our players.

[dragit]

delist jones
lol

Yes indeed, delist Jones. We need skillful players who can kick.

Yes we do, though it might be a good idea to get some before you delist a guy that will most probably finish top 10 in the b&f this year. When you have Nathan Fyfe on the list to replace him with then sure…

[dragit]

Tough question. What do people think??

What about you Helen?
Do you think the bombers can challenge for a flag without bottoming out, again?

Why ask me about the bombers? I hate them.

You still haven't even blessed us with your own wisdom to the thread,
Classic trolling, posing a question without an opinion, then just sit back and hope that people eat their own… You're a gem.

Ok, I'll give you my opinion...

At the end of this season we need to delist the following players...
Gardiner
Baker
Blake
Kosi
Jones
Clarke
McQualter
Polo
Gamble

1. Stay away from the Trading period.
2. If any teams show interest in any of our players only trade for picks.
3. Play the youngsters at every opportunity.

That doesn't even answer your own question…
Can St Kilda rebuild without dropping to the bottom 4?

[sainters man]

No one should never really "bottom" out these days. AFL is a professional sport these days, and if you keep drafting your fair share of kids each year and trade well, teams should never bottom out ie- Geelong, Sydney, West Coast had that one bad year but kept same old players and brought kids in etc

[dragit]

No one should never really "bottom" out these days. AFL is a professional sport these days, and if you keep drafting your fair share of kids each year and trade well, teams should never bottom out ie- Geelong, Sydney, West Coast had that one bad year but kept same old players and brought kids in etc

Someone has to finish - 14, 15, 16 & 17 though?

[Helen]

Tough question. What do people think??

What about you Helen?
Do you think the bombers can challenge for a flag without bottoming out, again?

Why ask me about the bombers? I hate them.

You still haven't even blessed us with your own wisdom to the thread,
Classic trolling, posing a question without an opinion, then just sit back and hope that people eat their own… You're a gem.

Ok, I'll give you my opinion...

At the end of this season we need to delist the following players...
Gardiner
Baker
Blake
Kosi
Jones
Clarke
McQualter
Polo
Gamble

1. Stay away from the Trading period.
2. If any teams show interest in any of our players only trade for picks.
3. Play the youngsters at every opportunity.

That doesn't even answer your own question…
Can St Kilda rebuild without dropping to the bottom 4?

No they can't. They need to be in the bottom 4 for 3 years (prefferably 4years)to rebuild properly. Or else they will become like Sydney, thereabouts but never really a legitimate contender. HAPPY?????????????

[St DAC]

No they can't. They need to be in the bottom 4 for 3 years (prefferably 4years)to rebuild properly. Or else they will become like Sydney, thereabouts but never really a legitimate contender. HAPPY?????????????

And thus the troll reveals itself ... same old crap, different name.

[Eastern]

Tough question. What do people think??

What about you Helen?
Do you think the bombers can challenge for a flag without bottoming out, again?

Why ask me about the bombers? I hate them.

You still haven't even blessed us with your own wisdom to the thread,
Classic trolling, posing a question without an opinion, then just sit back and hope that people eat their own… You're a gem.

Ok, I'll give you my opinion...

At the end of this season we need to delist the following players...
Gardiner
Baker
Blake
Kosi
Jones
Clarke
McQualter
Polo
Gamble

1. Stay away from the Trading period.
2. If any teams show interest in any of our players only trade for picks.
3. Play the youngsters at every opportunity.

So, you want us to have 9 picks in what not only is a compromised Draft but possibly one of the shallowest Drafts in history !!

[dragit]

No they can't. They need to be in the bottom 4 for 3 years (prefferably 4years)to rebuild properly. Or else they will become like Sydney, thereabouts but never really a legitimate contender. HAPPY?????????????

And thus the troll reveals itself ... same old crap, different name.

If we are going to bottom out good and proper, why not make it 7 or 8 years.
We could end up with picks 1 & 2 for 6 years then, plus we could trade Roo for pick 9 & 32, Goddard for pick 12, my goodness imagine the list?

sweet

baby

jesus
.

[SinCitySaint]

No they can't. They need to be in the bottom 4 for 3 years (prefferably 4years)to rebuild properly. Or else they will become like Sydney, thereabouts but never really a legitimate contender. HAPPY?????????????

And thus the troll reveals itself ... same old crap, different name.

Helen may well be a troll but I am not and I tend to agree with Helen's statement. I believe that you really do need to bottom out now to rebuild as otherwise you are depending on pure dumb luck to get anywhere. West Coast, Collingwood and Hawthorn did bottom out. Geelong got extremely lucky with some father sons and late draft picks and Sydney won one flag by having an extra million in the salary cap to anyone else. Recruiters are becoming better and better at spotting talent and as such fewer stars will drop down to the later rounds like Sam Fisher. The only way to get the best talent is to bottom out.

I don't like it but it is a reality.

[St DAC]

Helen may well be a troll but I am not and I tend to agree with Helen's statement. I believe that you really do need to bottom out now to rebuild as otherwise you are depending on pure dumb luck to get anywhere. West Coast, Collingwood and Hawthorn did bottom out. Geelong got extremely lucky with some father sons and late draft picks and Sydney won one flag by having an extra million in the salary cap to anyone else. Recruiters are becoming better and better at spotting talent and as such fewer stars will drop down to the later rounds like Sam Fisher. The only way to get the best talent is to bottom out.

I don't like it but it is a reality.

For 4 years? Who exactly has won a flag with this approach?

Do you reckon sponsors get on board a club who bottoms out for 4 years? And members stick fat for that?

[SinCitySaint]

No I don't believe you need to bottom out for 4 years but at least 2. Collingwood bottomed out for 2, West Coast for 3 it is a valid way of rebuilding.

[Helen]

No I don't believe you need to bottom out for 4 years but at least 2. Collingwood bottomed out for 2, West Coast for 3 it is a valid way of rebuilding.

It's actually the only way. Geelong are a bunch of f****** inbreds. It's the AFL's fault because they didn't really think through the father son rule. They have tightened it up now but too late. Even Collingwood f****** got away with blue murder regarding the father son rule. Go back and have a look at what picks they had to use for Travis Cloke and Heath Shaw. Add that to thieir perfect tank in 2005 where they snared Pendles and Daisy and its really not that hard to see ehy they are so f****** good.

I can not fault Lyon in what he has done for St Kilda. With one f****** ounce of luck we could have had 2 flags. However, if he goes down the road I believe he will we will never win a flag in his time at the Saints. We will be exactly like Sydney. Thereabouts but no hope of ever challenging.

GO AHEAD AND BAN ME AGAIN. I DON"T GIVE A s*** ANYMORE.

[dragit]

No I don't believe you need to bottom out for 4 years but at least 2. Collingwood bottomed out for 2, West Coast for 3 it is a valid way of rebuilding.

It's actually the only way. Geelong are a bunch of f****** inbreds. It's the AFL's fault because they didn't really think through the father son rule. They have tightened it up now but too late. Even Collingwood f****** got away with blue murder regarding the father son rule. Go back and have a look at what picks they had to use for Travis Cloke and Heath Shaw. Add that to thieir perfect tank in 2005 where they snared Pendles and Daisy and its really not that hard to see ehy they are so f****** good.

I can not fault Lyon in what he has done for St Kilda. With one f****** ounce of luck we could have had 2 flags. However, if he goes down the road I believe he will we will never win a flag in his time at the Saints. We will be exactly like Sydney. Thereabouts but no hope of ever challenging.

GO AHEAD AND BAN ME AGAIN. I DON"T GIVE A s*** ANYMORE.

There, there, don't throw the towel in so early, you haven't even been too naughty this time around… though you really should mix-up your style a bit more between registrations…
You obviously follow StKilda in some form, are they your 2nd team?

[Animal Enclosure]

I'm really 50/50 on this.

On one hand I think that with some astute decisions (& a lot of luck) we can get enough talent into the club that there is still hope for 'Roo's Generation' to have another crack at a flag. IMO there still needs to be some short term pain for this to happen & I'm sure that there will be a few changes at seasons end that will surprise some.

On the other hand the reported 'Super Draft' qualities of 2012-2013 are a golden opportunity to rebuild the club ala 2000-2002 (and do it properly this time!).

The drafts will be back to being uncompromised & having a poor season will again have it's rewards. The predicted quality of both drafts will possible be a godsend for a club like St Kilda that may be entering a rebuild phase.

Of course the best way to do this is to trade established players for picks & load up on as many talented kids as possible. Before anyone starts carrying on about me advocating that we trade everyone out (like Nexus Helen/Helen/whoever has been posting about for years), I'm talking about making strategic decisions on who to build this new team around.

BJ is the obvious rock to build around. His re-signing is crucial IMO but there's a case to be made for getting as much for him as we can in the event that he cashes up & goes to GWS. Realistically we would get more for BJ at the end of this season than if he goes as an uncontracted player & we're left with a compensation pick.

If Sheedy offered picks 1 & 2 for BJ (Most likely Patton & Coniglio) & BJ suggested that he was a chance to go to GWS, would Ross go for it?

Two unproven but hugely rated kids that may or may not turn out to be guns versus possibly one year of a proven champion & then a pick at a yet to be determined number.

I do not envy the decisions that Ross & co will be confronted with over the next few years.

[Helen]

Hi Animal Enclosure, I never actually said to trade everyone out!!!!
Let me ask you a question. If Sheedy wanted Rooey at the end of this season and was prepared to give you picks 9 and 20, would you do the trade??

[Rosco]

We will be exactly like Sydney. Thereabouts but no hope of ever challenging.

why the sydney bagging? they did win a flag a few years back, and make another GF.

[Helen]

We will be exactly like Sydney. Thereabouts but no hope of ever challenging.

why the sydney bagging? they did win a flag a few years back, and make another GF.

But since their consecutive Grand Finals they have kept making the Top 8 but are no longer a genuine threat. And will never be a genuine threat because of the way the trade and recycle players.

[St DAC]

But since their consecutive Grand Finals they have kept making the Top 8 but are no longer a genuine threat. And will never be a genuine threat because of the way the trade and recycle players.

Two years ago Collingwood weren't considered a genuine flag threat. Those teams contained the father-son selections they got cheaply. It's their trading for experienced players (Jolly, Ball et al) who IMO made much of the difference, together with natural maturation of existing players who replaced some older less talented players.

Is there some law of nature I'm unaware of that says we can't trade well, and our youngsters can't mature into good players?

Collingwood bottomed out 6 years ago. Briefly. For the past 4 seasons they've been very competative, and for the last 2 especially very good indeed. This year they are playing some of the best football I've seen.

4 years on the bottom is ridiculous.

[stinger]

delist jones
lol

Yes indeed, delist Jones. We need skillful players who can kick.

won't happen...and gamble just bought himself another year....

[Helen]

delist jones
lol

Yes indeed, delist Jones. We need skillful players who can kick.

won't happen...and gamble just bought himself another year....

So Gamble kicks 4 goals against a pathetic Port and he has bought himself another year.

[joffaboy]

GO AHEAD AND BAN ME AGAIN. I DON"T GIVE A s*** ANYMORE.

You heard it from this serial troll.

C'mon mods please ban this personality disorder for good.

NexXxus_Nicl/Helen etc etc etc, you are not welcomed here or by the looks of it at bigfooty either.

Take the hint and piss off forever you piece of trolling excretia.

[hungry for a premiership]

I think Helen should stay. After all, he/she/it is at least offering heartfelt honest opinions.

I, however, do indeed thoroughly disagree with those opinions.

To say we need to bottom out for 3-4 years is ludicrous. It's all about the list management. Achieving a balance in that area. Play all the kids and the balance goes right out of whack.

We have the core that a new list can be built around. IF we bottom out, it only needs to be for ONE year. With smart list management and development, that is all that will be needed.

[Austinnn]

Yes. No problem.

[BigMart]

A bit knee jerk on gamble..... I suspect one game does not win you a contract....

His whole year will be reveiwed and will need more performances li,e that against better opposition.....has been found wanting in most of his outings...