Yeah.Verdun66 wrote:Rant he does, which detracts from his arguments. Actually makes them impossible to read. I never start one of his posts looking forward to it.
And they're never very short!
Bit of a CLOWN!!!!!!!
I fully back the board
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Dr Spaceman
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barks4eva
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Irrespective of whatever opinion you might have either way there are some established facts which are totally wrong in the OP!Dr Spaceman wrote:Barks, please explain why everything you write are FACTS
And everything others with a different view are NOT FACTS.
I was merely pointing them out!!!!!!!!!!
For example:-
skeptic wrote: Around April was when the board and RL's management began looking to... lets say negotiate a new deal.
QUOTE NATHAN BURKEskeptic wrote: Also, slowing down the process also puts the pressure back on the board to up the offer and it allows him to keep his options open at the end of the season from alternative offers.
when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.
Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.
The quote from Burke makes a nonsense of these two assertions in the OP and proves them to be WRONG!
At the end of April we were ONE WIN ONE DRAW AND TWO LOSSES and a BYE!skeptic wrote: We know that around this time in April, the club's performance for the season was not great 1-8 IIRC.
After a 1-8 start,
One of these losses was when Blake had a brain fade in the last 50 seconds and we lost by one point to Geelong!
I have been told by a reliable source that the offer from Lyon to the board came between round three and five!
We had the bye in round four
So we were actually
ONE DRAW and TWO LOSSES when the offer was made if this information is correct.
If it came later in April then we won our next game!
We were NEVER 1 and 8 or one from 8 at anytime
1 win 1 draw 5 losses after 8 with two losses by 1 point and 3 points!
FACT!
Again the OP was factually incorrect!
You asked the question!
I replied!
At least have the decency to reply to this!
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Moorabbin Man
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When are people on here going to accept that this has been an absolute cluster f**k by our Board. Nathan Burke has effectively come out and admitted it. See Inside Footy article quoted from by B4E in comments above.
In April Lyon made an offer, a reasonable one given his record, which was half of what he ended up getting from Freo. The Board did not have the vision to do the deal, Lyon didn't start rebuilding/refreshing and we lost a fine coach at the peak of his powers.
The Board were too clever by half, clearly demonstrating conservatism to the point of paralysis and profound incompetence. Talk about knee jerk reactions!!!!
Loyalty does not mean that you somehow have to justify their stupidity at all costs, doing so ensures it will all happen again.
In April Lyon made an offer, a reasonable one given his record, which was half of what he ended up getting from Freo. The Board did not have the vision to do the deal, Lyon didn't start rebuilding/refreshing and we lost a fine coach at the peak of his powers.
The Board were too clever by half, clearly demonstrating conservatism to the point of paralysis and profound incompetence. Talk about knee jerk reactions!!!!
Loyalty does not mean that you somehow have to justify their stupidity at all costs, doing so ensures it will all happen again.
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Leo.J
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We played in 3 consecutive GF's, yet our membership only increased this year by a few hundred this year.Moorabbin Man wrote:When are people on here going to accept that this has been an absolute cluster f**k by our Board. Nathan Burke has effectively come out and admitted it. See Inside Footy article quoted from by B4E in comments above.
In April Lyon made an offer, a reasonable one given his record, which was half of what he ended up getting from Freo. The Board did not have the vision to do the deal, Lyon didn't start rebuilding/refreshing and we lost a fine coach at the peak of his powers.
The Board were too clever by half, clearly demonstrating conservatism to the point of paralysis and profound incompetence. Talk about knee jerk reactions!!!!
Loyalty does not mean that you somehow have to justify their stupidity at all costs, doing so ensures it will all happen again.
Despite our current success we still struggle to sign up sponsors.
We have had our off field issues but the main issue for most people is our mind numbingly unattractive game style.
Not to mention the way the club under RL's leadership has shut out the media, leaving us open to being smashed in the media by rubbish journos, out to get us because we gave them doughnuts. Again sponsors don't like bad publicity.
Maybe like some people on here the board weren't too concerned by him leaving, especially if the had to pay him more.
As I've said before I wanted him to stay, but I really struggled with watching us play of late.
So now he's gone I'm looking forward to the future.
The funny thing is why can't the club and RL have both played a role in this.
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skeptic
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Barks,barks4eva wrote:Irrespective of whatever opinion you might have either way there are some established facts which are totally wrong in the OP!Dr Spaceman wrote:Barks, please explain why everything you write are FACTS
And everything others with a different view are NOT FACTS.
I was merely pointing them out!!!!!!!!!!
For example:-
skeptic wrote: Around April was when the board and RL's management began looking to... lets say negotiate a new deal.
QUOTE NATHAN BURKEskeptic wrote: Also, slowing down the process also puts the pressure back on the board to up the offer and it allows him to keep his options open at the end of the season from alternative offers.
when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.
Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.
The quote from Burke makes a nonsense of these two assertions in the OP and proves them to be WRONG!
At the end of April we were ONE WIN ONE DRAW AND TWO LOSSES and a BYE!skeptic wrote: We know that around this time in April, the club's performance for the season was not great 1-8 IIRC.
After a 1-8 start,
One of these losses was when Blake had a brain fade in the last 50 seconds and we lost by one point to Geelong!
I have been told by a reliable source that the offer from Lyon to the board came between round three and five!
We had the bye in round four
So we were actually
ONE DRAW and TWO LOSSES when the offer was made if this information is correct.
If it came later in April then we won our next game!
We were NEVER 1 and 8 or one from 8 at anytime
1 win 1 draw 5 losses after 8 with two losses by 1 point and 3 points!
FACT!
Again the OP was factually incorrect!
You asked the question!
I replied!
At least have the decency to reply to this!
your playing semantics... with the 1-8 note the "IIRC"... it stands for "If I recall correctly" and it hardly detracts from the argument
our position was not good from a coaching perspective.
FACT
Later in the year, that offer is off the table as RL's management and the board are finalising a contract that by all accounts RL approves of.
Your quote does not signify when "taking their time" stops, and when they continued to act on it...
it's just a quote that u use out of context to justify ur empty argument... and then you fill in the blanks yourself with things u can't prove
years of being a SS forumite has taught me better then to use reason and fact to debate with u as u a) choose to ignore an inconvenient truth... b) rant to confuse the issue.
I won't respond anymore to ur dribble
I would like to see you answer Con's questions though
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skeptic
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skeptic
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As for Pelchen,
I don't see why RL not having ultimate authority over EVERYTHING is a bad thing
Isn't this one of the many things u criticised GT over
When a coach leaves... the only thing that should change is the coaching assistants as a coach often handpicks those guys as u need ppl u can trust/respect
I think it's crap management to have the assistants, the fitness staff, the recruiters, head of footy department etc not have at least some degrees of separation
I don't see why RL not having ultimate authority over EVERYTHING is a bad thing
Isn't this one of the many things u criticised GT over
When a coach leaves... the only thing that should change is the coaching assistants as a coach often handpicks those guys as u need ppl u can trust/respect
I think it's crap management to have the assistants, the fitness staff, the recruiters, head of footy department etc not have at least some degrees of separation
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Scoop
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Just thought I might throw this one into the debate....for what it's worth...
http://www.insidefootballonline.com/holmesby.html
http://www.insidefootballonline.com/holmesby.html
Extra! Extra! Read all about it......no I don't want to read about it anymore!!!
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skeptic
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Scoop
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It is isn't it skeptic....from Inside Football, from which Burkey's piece (that has had a certain amount of airing on here) is also taken. Obviously Holmesby had some facts at his disposal to write a piece like that.skeptic wrote:interesting read scoop
The problem with the debates that rage on here (especially this one) is that people take some information (or misinformation), throw in liberal doses of opinion, rumour and innuendo....and hey presto....we have facts.
Now obviously some real facts have emerged....i.e. Lyon had money issues, the contract issue had been the point of discussion for some time, etc....but the only people that know the full story (the facts) are those that were closely involved in the issue i.e. Lyon, various St Kilda officials, managers, etc.....and of those, given the events of a couple of weeks ago, I would suggest Lyon himself is the only one who knows the full facts of the issue....and I doubt he would reveal all....apart from those facts that assist his story....
So we could go on postulating on what happened, who is to blame, etc....without any of us really knowing what happened for sure. The only fact that we do know is that Lyon has gone to Fremantle for his 30 pieces of silver (sorry, couldn't help myself).
So instead of wasting our time on the blame game and looking backwards, we should concentrate on the future and the fact that we need a new coach.
My mail....let me go check the facts first....
Extra! Extra! Read all about it......no I don't want to read about it anymore!!!
2.30pm last Thursday Michael Nettlefold, Craig Kelly and some St Kilda officials were in a Seaford coffee shop when they received a text from Lyon saying that he agreed to the terms and would be OK to announce it at a press conference the next day.Scoop wrote:Just thought I might throw this one into the debate....for what it's worth...
http://www.insidefootballonline.com/holmesby.html
Yet by 5pm he was Fremantle's coach.
B4E has not and will not answer this above quote.
You have made an idiot of yourself B4E.
But then again you have form with the RIX debacle dont you?
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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barks4eva
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joffaboy wrote:2.30pm last Thursday Michael Nettlefold, Craig Kelly and some St Kilda officials were in a Seaford coffee shop when they received a text from Lyon saying that he agreed to the terms and would be OK to announce it at a press conference the next day.Scoop wrote:Just thought I might throw this one into the debate....for what it's worth...
http://www.insidefootballonline.com/holmesby.html
Yet by 5pm he was Fremantle's coach.
B4E has not and will not answer this above quote.
You have made an idiot of yourself B4E.
But then again you have form with the RIX debacle dont you?
So what!
It would seem that Freo made a late offer somewhere between 2.30 and 5.00pm for a lot more coin and less shenanigans and Lyon used THE GET OUT CLAUSE that the board inserted into the contract!
Do you get it NUMBNUTS!
Lyon used the GET OUT CLAUSE that the board inserted that meant either party could break the agreement at ANYTIME!
Are you that **** thick goofball!
How many times do you need to be told about the get out clause and it's implication before it registers in your pea brain?
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Dr Spaceman
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barks4eva
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skeptic wrote:
Later in the year, that offer is off the table as RL's management and the board are finalising a contract that by all accounts RL approves of.
Six months on from April and the board's offer was a two year extension with conditions ( GET OUT CLAUSES )
Lyon felt insulted from all reports!
They only upped this on the Wednesday ( 14/9/11 ) to a four year deal without conditions!
Basically the same deal as Lyon's offer six months earlier!
Lyon left the next day for a bigger offer from Freo!
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bobmurray
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And with that he has done St Kilda a huge favour...no more role playing hacks......no more boring football....no more ignoring player development.....barks4eva wrote:
Lyon left the next day for a bigger offer from Freo!
Well done to the board
Well done Freo
Saints looking like a bottom 4 team in 2024.
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Dr Spaceman
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Yep, thank God the Board had the foresight to include that "Get Out Clause".bobmurray wrote:And with that he has done St Kilda a huge favour...no more role playing hacks......no more boring football....no more ignoring player development.....barks4eva wrote:
Lyon left the next day for a bigger offer from Freo!
Well done to the board
Well done Freo
Dodged a bullet there
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Shaggy
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barks4eva wrote:skeptic wrote:
Later in the year, that offer is off the table as RL's management and the board are finalising a contract that by all accounts RL approves of.
Six months on from April and the board's offer was a two year extension with conditions ( GET OUT CLAUSES )
Lyon felt insulted from all reports!
They only upped this on the Wednesday ( 14/9/11 ) to a four year deal without conditions!
Basically the same deal as Lyon's offer six months earlier!
Lyon left the next day for a bigger offer from Freo!
Who negotiates contracts two years in advance? That is so insecure. And RL is a real control freak. No decent CEO should ever give in to that nonsense.
RL had problems and maybe he should have been more open about it. Maybe something could have been done if he was.
barks4eva wrote:joffaboy wrote:2.30pm last Thursday Michael Nettlefold, Craig Kelly and some St Kilda officials were in a Seaford coffee shop when they received a text from Lyon saying that he agreed to the terms and would be OK to announce it at a press conference the next day.Scoop wrote:Just thought I might throw this one into the debate....for what it's worth...
http://www.insidefootballonline.com/holmesby.html
Yet by 5pm he was Fremantle's coach.
B4E has not and will not answer this above quote.
You have made an idiot of yourself B4E.
But then again you have form with the RIX debacle dont you?
So what!
It would seem that Freo made a late offer somewhere between 2.30 and 5.00pm for a lot more coin and less shenanigans and Lyon used THE GET OUT CLAUSE that the board inserted into the contract!
Do you get it NUMBNUTS!
Lyon used the GET OUT CLAUSE that the board inserted that meant either party could break the agreement at ANYTIME!
Are you that **** thick goofball!
How many times do you need to be told about the get out clause and it's implication before it registers in your pea brain?
LOL you still don't get it do you Barks!
The bloke still had a year to go on the contract. Club still had the decency to work on a new contract. Lyon through a text message to his manager and the club AGREED TO IT AND TO THE PRESS CONFERENCE!!!!
Get a clue!
Thats Mr. Smartarse to you
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barks4eva
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Buckets wrote: LOL you still don't get it do you Barks!
The bloke still had a year to go on the contract. Club still had the decency to work on a new contract. Lyon through a text message to his manager and the club AGREED TO IT AND TO THE PRESS CONFERENCE!!!!
Get a clue!
The board inserted GET OUT CLAUSES that either party could use at ANYTIME!!!!!!!!!!
Lyon used the GET OUT CLAUSE that the board inserted into the contract which he was legitimately entitled to do!
So why the carry on about him deceiving everyone?
Quote from Nettlefold!
"There's a high level of respect for Ross and we don't feel deceived."
GET A CLUE!
barks4eva wrote:Buckets wrote: LOL you still don't get it do you Barks!
The bloke still had a year to go on the contract. Club still had the decency to work on a new contract. Lyon through a text message to his manager and the club AGREED TO IT AND TO THE PRESS CONFERENCE!!!!
Get a clue!
The board inserted GET OUT CLAUSES that either party could use at ANYTIME!!!!!!!!!!
Lyon used the GET OUT CLAUSE that the board inserted into the contract which he was legitimately entitled to do!
So why the carry on about him deceiving everyone?
Quote from Nettlefold!
"There's a high level of respect for Ross and we don't feel deceived."
GET A CLUE!
Lol and yet you still miss that last fact...
He had through text to Kelly and Nettlefold agreed to the deal in principal and was happy for the club to call a press conference!!!!
Less than 4 hours later he walked...knowing full well what he had said earlier in the day!
Thats Mr. Smartarse to you
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#gosaintas
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Well this is my first post and I am rapt that he's gone. I don't care how it happened, just love the fact that he's not at our club anymore.
The football we played was unwatchable. The few games I bothered to turn up to, and I have a reserved seat and am social club member, left me furious. That is just no way to play football. We were great in 09, getting more and more defensive in 10 and a joke in 11.
We would have hardly scored at all next year the way we were travelling. So let's get a new coach and fitness team, a fresh start for the players that want to hang around, some more kids in the door and a fit Lenny and give next year a shake. The injured kids from this year will hopefully come good and I see no reason why next year shouldn't be a good one.
I'm already looking forward to it. I'm sure I'll be at many more games in 2012 than this year. The poor players having to play that crappy style. Poor Freo...they should have their first goal on the board by about round 5.
The football we played was unwatchable. The few games I bothered to turn up to, and I have a reserved seat and am social club member, left me furious. That is just no way to play football. We were great in 09, getting more and more defensive in 10 and a joke in 11.
We would have hardly scored at all next year the way we were travelling. So let's get a new coach and fitness team, a fresh start for the players that want to hang around, some more kids in the door and a fit Lenny and give next year a shake. The injured kids from this year will hopefully come good and I see no reason why next year shouldn't be a good one.
I'm already looking forward to it. I'm sure I'll be at many more games in 2012 than this year. The poor players having to play that crappy style. Poor Freo...they should have their first goal on the board by about round 5.