Raph

[3rd generation saint]

Actually Desertsaint, is it that Raph plays on and gets himself into trouble because he has no one to give the ball too ahead really his fault, or the fault of how the team plays.
As I've said many times before during the last year, the number of times we win the ball on the half back line only to look up and see there is no one in the our forward half of the field to kick the ball too just infuriated me, and probably contributed to some of the poor disposals of our back line players, because suddenly they're under pressure to find someone to kick it too.
Hopefully our new coach, like Scott did at Geelong, encourages the forwards to actually stay in the forward line.

[gringo]

I see Raph finished 17th in our B&F.

That is no great achievement

he missed a heap with injury early.

[saintdooley]

I hear on SEN they are re-signing Raph???

yay

[gringo]

I hear on SEN they are re-signing Raph???

yay

Shame they don't sign Kosi for you Dooley.

[saintspremiers]

I hear on SEN they are re-signing Raph???

yay

I hear Dools will support another team

Yay

[saintdooley]

I hear on SEN they are re-signing Raph???

yay

Shame they don't sign Kosi for you Dooley.

imagine if they did. I dont think i would be that angry, i would more than likely just laugh.

[MadSaintFan]

Raph was a part of the back 6 in 2009 when St Kilda had implemented a defensive gameplan which basically no one else could compete with (the zones and press, third man up in defense, sweeping run from the backline). We couldve had Tony Delaney back there and he couldve contributed well. I dont see how some of you can (after almost 8 years) still think this guy has a future?! Yes Iv seen him play well, yes he does some good things....but Iv also seen him consistently do many things which simply arent at AFL standard. You cant continue with these guys on your list - and the point of my post was that no one else wants him - fact.

[saintdooley]

Raph was a part of the back 6 in 2009 when St Kilda had implemented a defensive gameplan which basically no one else could compete with (the zones and press, third man up in defense, sweeping run from the backline). We couldve had Tony Delaney back there and he couldve contributed well. I dont see how some of you can (after almost 8 years) still think this guy has a future?! Yes Iv seen him play well, yes he does some good things....but Iv also seen him consistently do many things which simply arent at AFL standard. You cant continue with these guys on your list - and the point of my post was that no one else wants him - fact.

here here

and likewise with Kosi

[HitTheBoundary]

The point of my post was that no one else wants him - fact.

Actually, you don't know that - so it's not a fact. You may be right, but unless you have access to every teams inner sanctum, it's just an opinion.

I have never seen Raph shirk a contest, and have seen him put his body on the line for the St.Kilda Football Club (and get smashed) countless times.

I hope Raph stays, thrives under a new coach, and sticks it up all of you whingers.

[MadSaintFan]

Like I said HTB Iv seen him do some good stuff for us. But theres only so long you can run with the "I reckon next year hes going to blossom" line.

[BigMart]

Defending Raph has become a tiresome task.... so I'm over it, and fully agree.....he should be delisted.

He is 26 and has not delivered on his potential.....and we are still waiting for him to become a good player.....as it was thought he would be....

He is very maligned for good reason.....in 8 years he has never got close to the top ten in the b&f (unlike say, gram who is always top ten or better)....he is still making errors, usually associated with first, second year players looking for confidence....and his disposal, like many is suspect....

NOT good enough after 8 years....and in simple terms...he just doesnt work hard enough on the track...which is why his body cannot hold up...

he has great courage, good hands.....woeful awareness and decision making

[joffaboy]

Defending Raph has become a tiresome task.... so I'm over it, and fully agree.....he should be delisted.

He is 26 and has not delivered on his potential.....and we are still waiting for him to become a good player.....as it was thought he would be....

He is very maligned for good reason.....in 8 years he has never got close to the top ten in the b&f (unlike say, gram who is always top ten or better)....he is still making errors, usually associated with first, second year players looking for confidence....and his disposal, like many is suspect....

NOT good enough after 8 years....and in simple terms...he just doesnt work hard enough on the track...which is why his body cannot hold up...

he has great courage, good hands.....woeful awareness and decision making

this

[desertsaint]

Actually Desertsaint, is it that Raph plays on and gets himself into trouble because he has no one to give the ball too ahead really his fault, or the fault of how the team plays.
As I've said many times before during the last year, the number of times we win the ball on the half back line only to look up and see there is no one in the our forward half of the field to kick the ball too just infuriated me, and probably contributed to some of the poor disposals of our back line players, because suddenly they're under pressure to find someone to kick it too.
Hopefully our new coach, like Scott did at Geelong, encourages the forwards to actually stay in the forward line.

what you say is quite true - but he continually repeats the error of making a run and hoping something will happen up forward, rather than to have the awareness of forward players' positions and movements before setting out on his run.

[Old Mate]

I love the argument that it's not Raph's fault when he gets caught holding the ball because there is no one up the ground providing a target. You could use that excuse for any of our defenders however it's Raph that makes far more errors coming out of defence. Quite simply he's not up to it and I can't believe how long he's stayed on our list. He's been given ample opportunity. He's another like Dawson - Lacks skills and a poor decision maker. Saying all this, I hope he's given another opportunity at another club.

[saintdooley]

The point of my post was that no one else wants him - fact.

Actually, you don't know that - so it's not a fact. You may be right, but unless you have access to every teams inner sanctum, it's just an opinion.

I have never seen Raph shirk a contest, and have seen him put his body on the line for the St.Kilda Football Club (and get smashed) countless times.

I hope Raph stays, thrives under a new coach, and sticks it up all of you whingers.

you dont need to know inside info from other clubs. Its Raph. not that hard to figure out

[Bernard Shakey]

Defending Raph has become a tiresome task.... so I'm over it, and fully agree.....he should be delisted.

He is 26 and has not delivered on his potential.....and we are still waiting for him to become a good player.....as it was thought he would be....

He is very maligned for good reason.....in 8 years he has never got close to the top ten in the b&f (unlike say, gram who is always top ten or better)....he is still making errors, usually associated with first, second year players looking for confidence....and his disposal, like many is suspect....

NOT good enough after 8 years....and in simple terms...he just doesnt work hard enough on the track...which is why his body cannot hold up...

he has great courage, good hands.....woeful awareness and decision making

So why don't we get rid of Kosi? He has made top ten once in 11 years. Raph finished 111 votes ahead of Kosi this year and they probably played about the same amount of games.
To say Raph doesn't work hard enough on the track just shows your utter ignorance of what goes on at our club. You are making it up as you go.

[Old Mate]

Defending Raph has become a tiresome task.... so I'm over it, and fully agree.....he should be delisted.

He is 26 and has not delivered on his potential.....and we are still waiting for him to become a good player.....as it was thought he would be....

He is very maligned for good reason.....in 8 years he has never got close to the top ten in the b&f (unlike say, gram who is always top ten or better)....he is still making errors, usually associated with first, second year players looking for confidence....and his disposal, like many is suspect....

NOT good enough after 8 years....and in simple terms...he just doesnt work hard enough on the track...which is why his body cannot hold up...

he has great courage, good hands.....woeful awareness and decision making

So why don't we get rid of Kosi? He has made top ten once in 11 years. Raph finished 111 votes ahead of Kosi this year and they probably played about the same amount of games.
To say Raph doesn't work hard enough on the track just shows your utter ignorance of what goes on at our club. You are making it up as you go.

I remember an interview with BJ a couple of years ago where he said Raph needs to work harder on the track so unless BJ's making that up then BigMart has a point.

[Bernard Shakey]

Defending Raph has become a tiresome task.... so I'm over it, and fully agree.....he should be delisted.

He is 26 and has not delivered on his potential.....and we are still waiting for him to become a good player.....as it was thought he would be....

He is very maligned for good reason.....in 8 years he has never got close to the top ten in the b&f (unlike say, gram who is always top ten or better)....he is still making errors, usually associated with first, second year players looking for confidence....and his disposal, like many is suspect....

NOT good enough after 8 years....and in simple terms...he just doesnt work hard enough on the track...which is why his body cannot hold up...

he has great courage, good hands.....woeful awareness and decision making

So why don't we get rid of Kosi? He has made top ten once in 11 years. Raph finished 111 votes ahead of Kosi this year and they probably played about the same amount of games.
To say Raph doesn't work hard enough on the track just shows your utter ignorance of what goes on at our club. You are making it up as you go.

I remember an interview with BJ a couple of years ago where he said Raph needs to work harder on the track so unless BJ's making that up then BigMart has a point.

Some memory there, can you actually quote the context or the comment, or are you making it up as well?

[SainterK]

Defending Raph has become a tiresome task.... so I'm over it, and fully agree.....he should be delisted.

He is 26 and has not delivered on his potential.....and we are still waiting for him to become a good player.....as it was thought he would be....

He is very maligned for good reason.....in 8 years he has never got close to the top ten in the b&f (unlike say, gram who is always top ten or better)....he is still making errors, usually associated with first, second year players looking for confidence....and his disposal, like many is suspect....

NOT good enough after 8 years....and in simple terms...he just doesnt work hard enough on the track...which is why his body cannot hold up...

he has great courage, good hands.....woeful awareness and decision making

So why don't we get rid of Kosi? He has made top ten once in 11 years. Raph finished 111 votes ahead of Kosi this year and they probably played about the same amount of games.

To say Raph doesn't work hard enough on the track just shows your utter ignorance of what goes on at our club. You are making it up as you go.

Probably?

[BigMart]

Kosi is a Ruck/Key fwd.....we have had issues in those positions....so delisting Kosi would be counter productive....one could argue that we should have traded him at 26...but now at 29 he is little value...

Kosi did kick 48 Goals in 2009 and finished just ouside the top ten in 2008/2009 B&F...

Having said that, he has underachieved also.....

we have a number of HBF types.....

[Old Mate]

Defending Raph has become a tiresome task.... so I'm over it, and fully agree.....he should be delisted.

He is 26 and has not delivered on his potential.....and we are still waiting for him to become a good player.....as it was thought he would be....

He is very maligned for good reason.....in 8 years he has never got close to the top ten in the b&f (unlike say, gram who is always top ten or better)....he is still making errors, usually associated with first, second year players looking for confidence....and his disposal, like many is suspect....

NOT good enough after 8 years....and in simple terms...he just doesnt work hard enough on the track...which is why his body cannot hold up...

he has great courage, good hands.....woeful awareness and decision making

So why don't we get rid of Kosi? He has made top ten once in 11 years. Raph finished 111 votes ahead of Kosi this year and they probably played about the same amount of games.
To say Raph doesn't work hard enough on the track just shows your utter ignorance of what goes on at our club. You are making it up as you go.

I remember an interview with BJ a couple of years ago where he said Raph needs to work harder on the track so unless BJ's making that up then BigMart has a point.

Some memory there, can you actually quote the context or the comment, or are you making it up as well?

Just telling you how it is. Believe me, or don't, I don't care.

[skeptic]

I for one hope he stays...

We as a club have failed to develop the attacking side of his game and on the few times we've seen it... it's bloody good.

I think in Raph's best interests whilst a change of scenary would do him good, going to Freo would be a disaster... RL helped create this defensive only player that we see.
still a good deal is a good deal

I personally would like to see him get an etended crack at the midfield

Many on here IMO don't appreciate what Raph brings to the club and that's a shame... he had a decent year this season

Had a much better year than Ray, Jones, Gilbert for a start and is a better defender that Gwilt, Dawson, Blake

much bigger problems than this guy

[Bernard Shakey]

Kosi is a Ruck/Key fwd.....we have had issues in those positions....so delisting Kosi would be counter productive....one could argue that we should have traded him at 26...but now at 29 he is little value...

Kosi did kick 48 Goals in 2009 and finished just ouside the top ten in 2008/2009 B&F...

Having said that, he has underachieved also.....

we have a number of HBF types.....

You said this about Raph "he has great courage, good hands.....woeful awareness and decision making". I would say this applies more to #23.
We still have issues in the ruck/key forward and Kosi is the major issue, he's not up to either position.

[To the top]

Yes, Shadow.

Your hero, Milne, is a liability.

When it comes to playing against the sides we need to beat, being Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Sydney and Carlton for starters, he not only goes missing his lack of defensive effort is a liability.

Against the likes of Adelaide and Richmond, North Melbourne who we seem to be able to thrash by 100 points, a "star" kicking his 8 goals.

At rising 32 years of age and with nearing 250 AFL games (a testament to him) he finds himself at a Club which needs on-field leadership - and he does not deliver.

He does not go to the mid-field and win contested ball, inspire the team with couragous acts (as Clarke does going back with the ball to spoil) or do what the likes of Harvey from North Melbourne does, winning the ball, breaking lines and winning shots on goal courtesy of those metre gaining efforts.

In regards the 2 players added to our list today, "pace" and "flexibility".

And they both play as small forwards.

So they will compete directly with Milne - and Schneider.

So why did we go after 2 small forwards with "pace" and "flexibility" when we have Milne and Schneider?

To play in the VFL?

[SainterK]

haha TTT

Milne is a veteran, you know that yeah?

He's no spring chicken, and we'd be crazy not to recruit backup and soon.

As for Terry (btw, I love that we have a player called Terry) he can rotate forward and midfield.

They all probably can, gives us similar flexibility to the Pies/Cats.