End of season delistings

[thejiggingsaint]

I think that CJ, TDL, Maister, and a couple of others will be delisted, with Fisher, Schneider and Hayes retiring. Not sure if Montagna is that attractive a proposition as trade-bait (given current form & age) and I'd like to see him finish up as a Saints player anyway! As I mentioned earlier, I'm happy for the Footy department and Coaching panel to make the decision.

[Johnny Favier]

I would make a very tough call and say thanks for your efforts to Lenny, Montagna, Ray, Roo, Jones, Fisher and I probably would have done it before this season.... ouch

Didn't you learn anything from the way Melbourne struggled after they let all of their leaders go? Rabble wouldn't even begin to describe it...

[thejiggingsaint]

I'm hearing what some folk are saying as far as "releasing" (?!) our senior players is concerned. However, (IMHO) both Lenny and Roo could play on next year, and provide that on field leadership so vital for bringing the youngsters on. I still value the roles played by Burkie, Buckets, and Harves in their mentoring of our current "veterans"!

[Wrote for Luck]

Players that are gone aligned with their replacement:

Ray.........Ross
Jones..........Weller
Maister.........Lee/White
Stanley...........Hickey/Longer/Pearce
Minchington............Templeton
TDL...........Billings
Fisher..............Simpkin
Schneider...............Billings

And players who still need a bit more of a crack who can also cover some of the above; Roberton, Siposs, Dunell

I would hang on to Gwilt and Gilbert as they are only 27ish and can still play.

If Lenny retires he retires. We've got Dunstan.

[bergholt]

I would make a very tough call and say thanks for your efforts to Lenny, Montagna, Ray, Roo, Jones, Fisher and I probably would have done it before this season.... ouch

Didn't you learn anything from the way Melbourne struggled after they let all of their leaders go? Rabble wouldn't even begin to describe it...

It'd take a book to fully diagnose Melbourne's failing.

But suffice to say it's not just their leaders. Melbourne have lost or let go a lot of players who could/should still be in their side:

Troy Simmonds to Fremantle
Scott Thompson to Adelaide
Darren Jolly to Sydney
Brock McLean to Carlton
Travis Johnstone to Brisbane
Matt Warnock to Gold Coast
Tom Scully to GWS
Cale Morton to West Coast
Kyle Cheney to Hawthorn
Stefan Martin to Brisbane
Jared Rivers to Geelong
Jamie Bennell to West Coast
Colin Sylvia to Fremantle
Ricky Petterd to Richmond

Not a lot of superstars, but put some of those guys back in at the right times and the whole thing looks a bit more rosy. Thompson and Jolly especially, maybe even McLean.

And then there's the 2011 draft.

12: traded to Brisbane for Mitch Clark
36: Rory Taggert
52: Josh Tynan
54: James Sellar
R6: Jai Sheahan
R24: Tom Couch
R42: James Magner
R59: Leigh Williams

All gone now including Clark and in total they barely got to 50 games! The only consolation is that Sam Docherty was pick 12 and he walked out on Brisbane. He's paying for that because now he has to play for Carlton.

It's amazing they're winning at all given that. Jury still out on a lot of their other drafts, especially 2008: Watts, Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta, Bail, Jurrah, McKenzie, Healey, Hughes. Could still turn out OK.

[spert]

Leadership is one thing, but really, the pressure needs to be put on players to take the initiative and not expect senior older players to carry the burden. I would have hoped to see some of our midfielders getting more possessions and votes ahead of Lenny at this stage of the season for example, I also would have expected more forwards demanding the ball rather than standing off and watching Roo do the work- at least I saw a bit more initiative from Lee which is a start. I don't think there is anything to be learnt from Melbourne, and it's all about us moving forward and taking the risks involved for us to improve, and trying to squeeze the last drop of blood from the carcass, is not going forward.

[samuraisaint]

I am still reeling from the recruiting of Barry Brooks and Nathan Lovett, and can't help feeling we went early on Tom Lynch too. Now that we've completely bottomed out, Pelican and his merry men need to make sure that there is no margin left for error.
Injuries and form probably point to the following players leaving at seasons end

Injuries
Fisher
Schneider

Form
Ray
Jones
Maister
TDL
Stanley
Milera

Retirement
Lenny

That is a big list already and could get bigger if some of the younger guys get moved on, like Dunnell.
Jack, Armo, Saunders, Dunstan, Billings, Hickey, Webster, Curren, Bruce, Ross and Delaney are now the future of the club. We will have to wait and see on Siposs (who I rate), White (who sounds like he's a bit of a Russell Greene atm), and Lee (interrupted pre-season), keep playing Longer, Weller, and debut Markworth to get the full benefit of the development year.
Reckon Montagna could go for the right price, but agree that it will make next year very difficult to sit through.

[plugger66]

Leadership is one thing, but really, the pressure needs to be put on players to take the initiative and not expect senior older players to carry the burden. I would have hoped to see some of our midfielders getting more possessions and votes ahead of Lenny at this stage of the season for example, I also would have expected more forwards demanding the ball rather than standing off and watching Roo do the work- at least I saw a bit more initiative from Lee which is a start. I don't think there is anything to be learnt from Melbourne, and it's all about us moving forward and taking the risks involved for us to improve, and trying to squeeze the last drop of blood from the carcass, is not going forward.

So because others arent improving quick enough you get rid of the better players hoping they will improve. I dont see the logic in that. If a young kid is good enough they will pass the older players whether they are playing or not. Steven passed every other midfielder last year and we had more quality mids last year than this year. We dont need to get rid of all the older players for the young to improve. I am just about certain it would have the opposite effect.

[BigMart]

Getting rid of Richo benefitted Jack R

There are plenty of examples of opportunities opening up... Elevating a young player.

[plugger66]

Getting rid of Richo benefitted Jack R

There are plenty of examples of opportunities opening up... Elevating a young player.

Thats interesting. Didnt Richo play his last 2 years on the wing? they werent even playing in the same spots. Secondly instead of just working out a way of disagreeing with me, which you didnt do by the way, do you really think we should get rid of Rooy, Joey, Lenny and just about all others over 30 at the end of this season?

I suggest you work on better examples and i would like my question asnswered if possible.

Also havent you just today argued in another thread the stupidity of losing experienced players and how it could lead to a 200 point loss. Its really hard to know what you think apart from just disagreeing with others just for the sake of it.

[Johnny Favier]

Leadership is one thing, but really, the pressure needs to be put on players to take the initiative and not expect senior older players to carry the burden. I would have hoped to see some of our midfielders getting more possessions and votes ahead of Lenny at this stage of the season for example, I also would have expected more forwards demanding the ball rather than standing off and watching Roo do the work- at least I saw a bit more initiative from Lee which is a start. I don't think there is anything to be learnt from Melbourne, and it's all about us moving forward and taking the risks involved for us to improve, and trying to squeeze the last drop of blood from the carcass, is not going forward.

I take your point and agree to a large extent, particularly our forward line struggles thus far, but I think to be trading out or retiring club icons (Talking Roo, Lenny and Joey here) would leave the club in a dire position culturally and financially from the drop off in membership.
Not only that, the influence and experience these guys have on the younger blokes can't be measured in stats - I'd guess the benefits they offer off-field would make up about 80% of their value to the club - IMO.

[Wrote for Luck]

I am still reeling from the recruiting of Barry Brooks and Nathan Lovett, and can't help feeling we went early on Tom Lynch too. Now that we've completely bottomed out, Pelican and his merry men need to make sure that there is no margin left for error.
Injuries and form probably point to the following players leaving at seasons end

Injuries
Fisher
Schneider

Form
Ray
Jones
Maister
TDL
Stanley
Milera

Retirement
Lenny

That is a big list already and could get bigger if some of the younger guys get moved on, like Dunnell.
Jack, Armo, Saunders, Dunstan, Billings, Hickey, Webster, Curren, Bruce, Ross and Delaney are now the future of the club. We will have to wait and see on Siposs (who I rate), White (who sounds like he's a bit of a Russell Greene atm), and Lee (interrupted pre-season), keep playing Longer, Weller, and debut Markworth to get the full benefit of the development year.
Reckon Montagna could go for the right price, but agree that it will make next year very difficult to sit through.

I think Markworth is on the up and would like to see him in the team in the next few weeks as a half forward.

[borderbarry]

I dont understand why Milera is on so many lists to go. He has played fairly well in his two games so far. Has been in the top half of our team on performance I would think.
Retire
Fisher
Schneider

Jones
Ray
Maister
TDL
Dunell (he has been there 3 years)
Siposs if he does not improve by seasons end
Savage. Would be close to going unless he does something before seasons end.
Trade Bait
Stanley
Montagna
Gilbert
Longer (only if we decide to take Wright with our first pick)
Rookies
Templeton Promote.
Shenton. & Weller Retain
Minchington Has been there 3 years. Has had enough time.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

look i dont see any Sandy games so i cant comment on the guys who havent played much senior footy ...
of the guys who have played seniors i would have to say:

Schnides is just about done he looks to me disinterested at times and his lack of pace and defensive efforts is getting worse

Gwilt is either in a really bad shape with his body or is not up to it anymore , his form slump before injury was terrible so he either needs to get the injurys that were causeing the slump under control or find himself delisted

to me i reckon Stanley is a good prospect for trade ... he is young he has the height speed and size to make clubs show some interest and although not a world beater has shown signs of being a good player , i think clubs could look at someone like him and think he has potential he is proboly under performing in the poor side so put him in and around some better quallity players he could come good ... some one like the Crows , Freo even Essendon would be looking for a decent tall option and i reckon at this stage Rhys value is prob as high as it could get ....

Milera i would keep i know he is too light to lay strong tackles but from the collingwood game he in my opinion at least gives chase and that alone makes it harder for the opp to clear it out from our forward 50 i see potential in Terry although i feel i might be one of the only ones ...

Joey i wouldnt trade at all ... we need him more than ever especially if Lenny does retire his output may well be down but he still comands a tag most games giving the guys like Dunstan a easier run at the game in these development years

[BigMart]

Is Montagna's output well down?

Averaging more than 25ppg?

[spert]

Leadership is one thing, but really, the pressure needs to be put on players to take the initiative and not expect senior older players to carry the burden. I would have hoped to see some of our midfielders getting more possessions and votes ahead of Lenny at this stage of the season for example, I also would have expected more forwards demanding the ball rather than standing off and watching Roo do the work- at least I saw a bit more initiative from Lee which is a start. I don't think there is anything to be learnt from Melbourne, and it's all about us moving forward and taking the risks involved for us to improve, and trying to squeeze the last drop of blood from the carcass, is not going forward.

I take your point and agree to a large extent, particularly our forward line struggles thus far, but I think to be trading out or retiring club icons (Talking Roo, Lenny and Joey here) would leave the club in a dire position culturally and financially from the drop off in membership.
Not only that, the influence and experience these guys have on the younger blokes can't be measured in stats - I'd guess the benefits they offer off-field would make up about 80% of their value to the club - IMO.

Good comment Johnny Favier, but as far as membership goes, if we present an uncompetitive team which is flogged regularly, then members and potential members will quickly lose interest as will be shown come the start of next season when membership numbers will most likely be down on this season- especially in tight financial times, and it doesn't matter what player is or isn't playing. If we want to build a new regime, then we have to let go of the past, no matter how painful it obviously is for some supporters.

[noob]

TDL, Maister, Dunnel, Jones, Fisher, Hayes, Schneider, Gwilt, Markworth & Montagna could all go (Delisted, Traded, Retired).
The three S's Siposs, Stanley and Simpkin in a ideal world should be moved on.

[saintsRrising]

TDL, Maister, Dunnel, Jones, Fisher, Hayes, Schneider, Gwilt, Markworth & Montagna could all go (Delisted, Traded, Retired).
The three S's Siposs, Stanley and Simpkin in a ideal world should be moved on.

So you would turn over a third of our list in one period?

Geeze the talent at pick 75-83 must be good.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Is Montagna's output well down?

Averaging more than 25ppg?

yeah but the 25ppg he is getting are not as damaging as they were ... not really a slight on him more the supporting cast he has around him at the moment , hence why i thing even considering trading him at this point is madness ...
my feel is we needed to move some higher paid / older blokes from the list ... guys like Milne Kosi and Blake moved into retirment i reckon we had a choice between Dal and Joey where one could stay the other to go in the end the return for Dal was prob higher then that of Joey so we kept Joey ... i dont think we would trade him out unless he specifically asked to be traded we chose our veterans to run with while building i really cant see us cutting anymore from the sence of trading (retirment yes)

[borderbarry]

I have to agree with saintsRrising's point. Although we might have 12 or so players that we feel could be moved on, you can only get rid of the number you can replace. It is obvious that we dont want to go too deep into the draft. We will be promoting some rookies, we will probably get a couple by way of trade, and draft 3 to 5. THat is 7 -9 places, so that is how many players we can retire - delist - trade out.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

we cut pretty deep in the last three years i honestly cant see us going too deep ... maximum 6 changes this year im thinking and 2 of them prob retirments

[noob]

TDL, Maister, Dunnel, Jones, Fisher, Hayes, Schneider, Gwilt, Markworth & Montagna could all go (Delisted, Traded, Retired).
The three S's Siposs, Stanley and Simpkin in a ideal world should be moved on.

So you would turn over a third of our list in one period?

Geeze the talent at pick 75-83 must be good.

Not one player got delisted last year I believe.. from a team that realistically only had 4 wins and came 3rd last. I rank our list the worst in the AFL at this current stage. Well done St.Kilda.

[Bardon Saint]

Main list out: TDL, CJ, Dunell, Maister.
Rookies out: Minchington

I'd hope that Fisher's body holds up to take Gwilt's role or that third tall role. That running rebounding half back that saw him at the height of his career. Fingers crossed as he'd play a good mentor role and despite age will have more upside than Gwilt.

Gilbert.. Can we trade him? Does he have any value anymore? If not, still has a role but will not win us a premiership.

Lenny to stay on. His decision and may want to go out knowing that he can still deliver.

Schneider to stay. All depends on his body I guess.

[SainterK]

Why hasn't Roberton had surgery yet?

Isn't it something he can have operated?

[FQF]

Why hasn't Roberton had surgery yet?

Isn't it something he can have operated?

I wish the club would provide some info on Roberton and this mysterious ankle condition. His form drop is extremely alarming.