Longer and Hickey

[plugger66]

What is Rhys Stanley does a knee and we are pushing for a finals spot? Keep both.

So we keep a genuine first ruckman in the seconds for that situation. Do you think Hickey or Longer would want that? I stand by waht I said. If they cant work together by the end of next year one will have to go either because we trade then or they want out. They would lose value if they are mainly in the seconds and at the moment they cant play together. Well the club think they cant.

[Saint wagga]

What is Rhys Stanley does a knee and we are pushing for a finals spot? Keep both.

So we keep a genuine first ruckman in the seconds for that situation. Do you think Hickey or Longer would want that? I stand by waht I said. If they cant work together by the end of next year one will have to go either because we trade then or they want out. They would lose value if they are mainly in the seconds and at the moment they cant play together. Well the club think they cant.

I think Richo mentioned in a post or pre (I forget) about a month ago when Hickey was still a few weeks off coming back from his foot that he was keen to have a look at both big men in the same side...granted at the time, Rhys wasn't playing well and we were getting shallacked!!

You seem pretty adament about the end of next year PLugger...is it based on the potential loss of trade currency that is the biggest rush on it? If so, I just don't reckon an extra year (the end of 2016) would be be that big a deal, either way...They both have so few games under their belt...I think a bit more time for both to develop and show more upside might actually help their trade value...I don't think there is any disagreement that next year will be another of development and some lean trots...I think time for both to play as first ruck (Injuries) but also to play together and have a good look...I think it was mentioned a while ago in another thread that maybe we could lead the way in playing two very good ruckmen to really dominate the stoppage area...Either way, i think a little more time wont hurt the trade currency and it may declare itself more over 24 months than 18...What i'd really like to see is both Rucks improve their overhead marking in games...that will really excite me!! IMO

[|Andy|]

I think that because we're not currently pushing for finals, we have the luxury to develop both ruckmen to see if they can become elite ruckmen. If 1 does, great, if both develop then we can trade one for a much higher currency than what we would get for them at the end of the year.

[The OtherThommo]

I'm not sure Stanley has the tank to spell the 1 genuine ruckman, if we only play 1. His physical traits suggest he's more explosive than durable (fast twitch muscle fibres, or some such). They have poured work into Stanley as a forward and seem to be heading towards Roo doing more of a Richardson in his closing years, by pushing up the ground.

I'd rather have them concentrate on Stanley as a pure forward (barring injuries within games or across games). If Stanley's performance on Sundee is shown to be a one off, then I doubt he's viable as a ruckman vs Hickey or Longer.

I think it was Dragit who mentioned Hale earlier on, and how he took ages to become viable as a ruckman/forward. The Dorks have been forced to play Roughead as the back up ruckman, but only when injuries have taken their toll. Otherwise they play 2 incl Hale, but sometimes 3 including Hale. Sydney have taken 2 ruckman through seasons for years, particularly in big games, even with viable forwards - the Mumford/Pike duo didn't seem all that adept at the forward business, but they kept playing them. Freo don't send Sandlilands out on his own, and he kicks bugger all goals up forward (but they park him there). Neither does Clarke. Geelong play 2 ruckman when they're available, and don't get much out of them up forward since Ottens quit.

Someone else mentioned Cox/Natanui at the Eagles. It seems to me the lower sides are the ones inclined to play just the one ruckman, while the better performed sides prefer 2. Those higher sides take the time to develop the options (e.g. Ceglar), get them from alternative sources, and develop them (e.g. Pike) or identify the list deficiency and trade to get someone who will fit into a better side (e.g. Hale).

All up, we've got time to see how Hickey, Longer, Pierce, maybe even Holmes, might develop. And, having that depth allows us to see just how far Stanley can go, as a forward.

That flows into the draft question. By all reports, and while there are options, this year's bunch of key forward type kids is a bit of a raffle. We've kept Lee, we've put lots into Stanley, Roo's pushing up, they're taking a look at Bruce as a grunt forward option, Hickey can kcik goals and any KF kid will take time and, with no standouts, may take a lot of time.

With the great Lendog retiring (and he'll probably finish top 2 in the B & F) we will have a gaping hole in the middle. Ergo, I'd take a midfielder (and they tend to come to hand quicker than big kids). Sam Fisher's prospects will probably need to be factored in, because his return (off a 'orrible 12 odd months and preparation) showed just what a difference a decent KP defender can make. But, all up, continue developing the bigger types, and get a midfielder to help address the Lendog hole.

The worst thing to happen might be a bit of an embarrassment of 'big' riches, and the chance to trade someone further down the development path.....for greater value.

[st.byron]

Can a mod ban themselves for off topic?
Can't you take this stuff to other topics and the admin forum?

Fair call Maverick. Sorry about that. All discussion about nics from this thread moved to its own thread in the Admin forum.

[The OtherThommo]

Can a mod ban themselves for off topic?
Can't you take this stuff to other topics and the admin forum?

Fair call Maverick. Sorry about that. All discussion about nics from this thread moved to its own thread in the Admin forum.

I wondered why it had suddenly dropped 2 pages down to 3.

[jonesy]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

[Old Mate]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

[FQF]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Spot on FQF

[Old Mate]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

For sure.

I'll quickly add I was never one to say trading for Longer was a poor choice. I was in favour of it, still am and believe the club had him all but locked in prior to trading McEvoy.

[kosifantutti]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Without looking it up, I can't remember many being upset about us trading for Longer.

[plugger66]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Agree but what happens at the end of next year if both still never play a game together?

[PJ]

Well I wouldn't worry about either until both develop and present with some trade options. Keep both in the short term.

[remboy]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Agree but what happens at the end of next year if both still never play a game together?

I don't disagree that they might not be able to play together, however, we still need to have more than one ruckman on the list. If we traded Longer at the end of next year and Hickey does his knee in round 1 who plays in the ruck?

[plugger66]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Agree but what happens at the end of next year if both still never play a game together?

I don't disagree that they might not be able to play together, however, we still need to have more than one ruckman on the list. If we traded Longer at the end of next year and Hickey does his knee in round 1 who plays in the ruck?

No idea but what happens if they still cant play together at the end of next season and only one has played firsts? Do you honestly think the other will want to stay? i stand by what i think. If they dont learn to play together next year one must go either because they will want to go or the club will want to trade them.

[remboy]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Agree but what happens at the end of next year if both still never play a game together?

I don't disagree that they might not be able to play together, however, we still need to have more than one ruckman on the list. If we traded Longer at the end of next year and Hickey does his knee in round 1 who plays in the ruck?

No idea but what happens if they still cant play together at the end of next season and only one has played firsts? Do you honestly think the other will want to stay? i stand by what i think. If they dont learn to play together next year one must go either because they will want to go or the club will want to trade them.

In which case, if we can't develop Longer or Hickey to the point where they are useful in another position we'll be looking for another ruckman. Unless, of course, Pierce or Holmes come on by then, which is unlikely (and I can't see them playing anywhere but in the ruck either).

[plugger66]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Agree but what happens at the end of next year if both still never play a game together?

I don't disagree that they might not be able to play together, however, we still need to have more than one ruckman on the list. If we traded Longer at the end of next year and Hickey does his knee in round 1 who plays in the ruck?

No idea but what happens if they still cant play together at the end of next season and only one has played firsts? Do you honestly think the other will want to stay? i stand by what i think. If they dont learn to play together next year one must go either because they will want to go or the club will want to trade them.

In which case, if we can't develop Longer or Hickey to the point where they are useful in another position we'll be looking for another ruckman. Unless, of course, Pierce or Holmes come on by then, which is unlikely (and I can't see them playing anywhere but in the ruck either).

Has Stanley retired or been traded?

[remboy]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Agree but what happens at the end of next year if both still never play a game together?

I don't disagree that they might not be able to play together, however, we still need to have more than one ruckman on the list. If we traded Longer at the end of next year and Hickey does his knee in round 1 who plays in the ruck?

No idea but what happens if they still cant play together at the end of next season and only one has played firsts? Do you honestly think the other will want to stay? i stand by what i think. If they dont learn to play together next year one must go either because they will want to go or the club will want to trade them.

In which case, if we can't develop Longer or Hickey to the point where they are useful in another position we'll be looking for another ruckman. Unless, of course, Pierce or Holmes come on by then, which is unlikely (and I can't see them playing anywhere but in the ruck either).

Has Stanley retired or been traded?

Without having spoken to Alan Richardson, I would be pretty sure he wouldn't want Stanley playing as our first choice ruckman. I think he should be considered as a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck to give the number one ruckman a break.

[plugger66]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Agree but what happens at the end of next year if both still never play a game together?

I don't disagree that they might not be able to play together, however, we still need to have more than one ruckman on the list. If we traded Longer at the end of next year and Hickey does his knee in round 1 who plays in the ruck?

No idea but what happens if they still cant play together at the end of next season and only one has played firsts? Do you honestly think the other will want to stay? i stand by what i think. If they dont learn to play together next year one must go either because they will want to go or the club will want to trade them.

In which case, if we can't develop Longer or Hickey to the point where they are useful in another position we'll be looking for another ruckman. Unless, of course, Pierce or Holmes come on by then, which is unlikely (and I can't see them playing anywhere but in the ruck either).

Has Stanley retired or been traded?

Without having spoken to Alan Richardson, I would be pretty sure he wouldn't want Stanley playing as our first choice ruckman. I think he should be considered as a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck to give the number one ruckman a break.

Totally agree. Do you think either Hickey or Longer would be happy to be second choice ruckman in 2016?

[remboy]

Hickey's out for the season with knee tendonitis. Had it for two years but has gotten worse this year...

Longer looks to have firmly taken the box seat

Longer certainly more combative and durable. Hickey is like Mr Glass

All I can say is that those who DECRIED the drafting of Longer after we traded out McEvoy have proven to be very wrong.

If Longer was not at the club, and with Lewis Pierce injured for the first half of the year and not yet ready anyway, we would have seen Stanley playing as a full time ruck. This could have caused him further hamstring injuries but at the very least would not have allowed him to improve as a forward. Alternatively we would have be playing someone totally unsuited or unready like Maister, Bruce, Lee or Holmes.

Agree but what happens at the end of next year if both still never play a game together?

I don't disagree that they might not be able to play together, however, we still need to have more than one ruckman on the list. If we traded Longer at the end of next year and Hickey does his knee in round 1 who plays in the ruck?

No idea but what happens if they still cant play together at the end of next season and only one has played firsts? Do you honestly think the other will want to stay? i stand by what i think. If they dont learn to play together next year one must go either because they will want to go or the club will want to trade them.

In which case, if we can't develop Longer or Hickey to the point where they are useful in another position we'll be looking for another ruckman. Unless, of course, Pierce or Holmes come on by then, which is unlikely (and I can't see them playing anywhere but in the ruck either).

Has Stanley retired or been traded?

Without having spoken to Alan Richardson, I would be pretty sure he wouldn't want Stanley playing as our first choice ruckman. I think he should be considered as a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck to give the number one ruckman a break.

Totally agree. Do you think either Hickey or Longer would be happy to be second choice ruckman in 2016?

Only if there were no offers from clubs willing to make them their number one ruckman.

[saintbrat]

Lewi update
http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-08- ... wis-pierce