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Con Gorozidis wrote:Really loving Longer. Looks so good. Just a man mountain. Getting in the right positions and making the right decisions. Looks like a long termer. Longer for longer.
Every chance we might have a 'surplus' ruckman to trade out for a decent draft pick at years end.
Wew could if we want to but Hickey value isn't getting better playing all year at Sandy. I have no idea how they do this but we don't have the right sort of ruckmen to have 2 playing.
Can't we just be patient and to an extent roll the dice and just hang on to our young rucks until they've both played 50-100 games. Last year Longer 'couldn't take a mark', now he's starting to find the ball and get into better spots and pluck a few, all in a matter of 1 offseason. To say that we don't the right rucks to play two isn't giving any chance to develop and also natural improvement from big men which takes time. In the first half of hickeys first year with us I thought, 'this guy is s***', then he started to show plenty, but injury has interrupted him.
Fortune favours the brave and I think the brave thing would be to hang on to both and back that they will become a powerful ruck division for us.
No we cant just hold onto them till they play that many games because they one of them wont want to stay and play at Sandy.
I'm baffled by this love for Longer. Who did he play on? Probably the worst ruckman in the league in Cameron Wood - who didn't have a bad game himself for the first time ever. And the week before Longer got absolutely SMASHED by a kid. And there were at least 3 ball ups which weren't even contested on Saturday. And apart from taking a few grabs, what did he do. Boots it down the line up in the air.
I'm not seeing it, and extremely disappointed as in my opinion Hickey was celarly a better player. Hickey has obviously gone backwards.
I reckon we're grasping at straws because right now, there's not a hell of a lot to get overly excited about.
Moods wrote:I'm baffled by this love for Longer. Who did he play on? Probably the worst ruckman in the league in Cameron Wood - who didn't have a bad game himself for the first time ever. And the week before Longer got absolutely SMASHED by a kid. And there were at least 3 ball ups which weren't even contested on Saturday. And apart from taking a few grabs, what did he do. Boots it down the line up in the air.
I'm not seeing it, and extremely disappointed as in my opinion Hickey was celarly a better player. Hickey has obviously gone backwards.
I reckon we're grasping at straws because right now, there's not a hell of a lot to get overly excited about.
The reason I started this thread was not to say that Longer was great, but rather to say that it wasa good sign in his development that he was at last winning some ball around the ground.
You cannot be the No 1 ruck these days if you basically only do tapwork, which up to now was basically all that Longer was doing.
Hickey misseda lot of the pre-season putting him behind.
To date a Hickey at his best I would still rate above Longer die to his around the ground work, and better running ability. We need both to improve though....and both are very young still for ruckman.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
How many ruckman across the league need to blossom into their unexpected prime after 25 years of age for people to realise that ruckmen are easily the slowest developing players in footy? Right now, all we can look for is the odd highlight and general improvement.
Devilhead wrote:Yeah i dropped him in another thread - thought he was ineffectual in the 2nd half - need a ruckman to be able to hurt the opposition offensively which I think Hickey can do moreso than Longer - sure he got a lot of hitouts but to what effect??
Obviously he is learning a will continue to improve but time for a break - maybe a bit harsh but i think Hickey offers more
140 super coach points. Hickey could only dream of having half that total.
The major problem with Longer is he is lazy. His opponent is always a good player for the opposition. He needs to work on that. Having said that he isn't going anywhere next week. Still got me stuffed what we do with Hickey though. he is to good for us to be in the seconds but he hasn't got a role in the ones with Longer playing.
Con Gorozidis wrote:Really loving Longer. Looks so good. Just a man mountain. Getting in the right positions and making the right decisions. Looks like a long termer. Longer for longer.
Every chance we might have a 'surplus' ruckman to trade out for a decent draft pick at years end.
Wew could if we want to but Hickey value isn't getting better playing all year at Sandy. I have no idea how they do this but we don't have the right sort of ruckmen to have 2 playing.
Maybe it will only last a year and one will be traded out at the years' end? It would be against the grain however if the trade in the end was (Hickey, Longer)
Out: 12 (Hickey), 25 (Longer)
In: Longer, First round pick and another midfielder
What would we all think? Essentially we would have found a ruck, have another first rounder in a draft that we actually need additional and ideally something else of value...???
plugger66 wrote:The major problem with Longer is he is lazy. His opponent is always a good player for the opposition. He needs to work on that. Having said that he isn't going anywhere next week. Still got me stuffed what we do with Hickey though. he is to good for us to be in the seconds but he hasn't got a role in the ones with Longer playing.
Old Mate wrote:Longer is 4th for hit outs - league wide
Which would be helped by the inordinate amount of stoppages that occurred in our game on the weekend. One of the commentators said we were tracking for a world record in the first quarter.
Reckon P66 hit the nail on the head. It's the opposition ruckman having an influence, particularly average opposition ruckmen that has me worried. Grundy is only a kid himself and was dropped for most of last year. Hadn't done much until he played us. Wood has never been any good. I shudder what is going to happen when he comes up against Jacobs, Sandilands, Natnui, Goldstein etc.
It's his second halves of games that worry me as well. His first halves have been quite good, but he drops off (not that he's on his own there)
Ruckmen take time, the ones that hit the ground running as youngsters are usually the ones who are mobile possession winning types like Josh Fraser - Kruezer and now Brodie Grundy. All got games early all got the kudo's of the scribes and supporters but ultimately they were playing more as oversized ruck rovers than pure ruckmen and lets face it based on the examples given they may never develop in to true Ruckmen.
The truly dominant ruckmen are at their best after 25 once their strength and craft have developed enough to allow them to compete. Doesn't mean Longer and Hickey will be dominant when they hit 25 because plenty never make it. But equally plenty of clubs give up on a developing ruckman only to see them dominate at another club. Jacobs, Maric, Ceglar, Jolley.
All our rucks are development ruckmen to some extent at the moment Hickey and Longer will share the duties depending on form and injury this year. At the moment Longer is in place until form or injury force a change.
The bigger concern is Hickey isn't even rucking for Sandy, seems they want him to spend more time working on his forward game, not sure if this is just a development focus for a few weeks or protecting him from injury but there is almost zero chance we will play both of them in the same team at AFL level so I doubt it is part of a strategy to go tall in the forward line. Maybe we are putting him in cotton wool knowing that Longer will not be able to last the whole season one out in the ruck.
Pleasing wrote:The bigger concern is Hickey isn't even rucking for Sandy, seems they want him to spend more time working on his forward game, not sure if this is just a development focus for a few weeks or protecting him from injury but there is almost zero chance we will play both of them in the same team at AFL level so I doubt it is part of a strategy to go tall in the forward line. Maybe we are putting him in cotton wool knowing that Longer will not be able to last the whole season one out in the ruck.
You say there is almost zero chance of them playing together - based on what?
It seems plainly obvious that the very reason he is playing as a permanent forward at the moment is so that he can work on his forward craft. The best, and only, explanation is because the club wants Longer and Hickey to play in the same team and they are grooming them slowly. If Hickey has a couple of good games as a forward in the VFL, then I fully expect him to come in and play with Longer. Or, alternatively, to swap with Longer and let Longer then spend a few weeks as a permanent forward. But the intent is plain to see.
And, by the way, the club has officially said a couple of times that they'd like the two to play together.
Pleasing wrote:The bigger concern is Hickey isn't even rucking for Sandy, seems they want him to spend more time working on his forward game, not sure if this is just a development focus for a few weeks or protecting him from injury but there is almost zero chance we will play both of them in the same team at AFL level so I doubt it is part of a strategy to go tall in the forward line. Maybe we are putting him in cotton wool knowing that Longer will not be able to last the whole season one out in the ruck.
You say there is almost zero chance of them playing together - based on what?
It seems plainly obvious that the very reason he is playing as a permanent forward at the moment is so that he can work on his forward craft. The best, and only, explanation is because the club wants Longer and Hickey to play in the same team and they are grooming them slowly. If Hickey has a couple of good games as a forward in the VFL, then I fully expect him to come in and play with Longer. Or, alternatively, to swap with Longer and let Longer then spend a few weeks as a permanent forward. But the intent is plain to see.
And, by the way, the club has officially said a couple of times that they'd like the two to play together.
So zero chance? Based on what?
Well at the moment on fact. It will eventually happen but im with Pleasing in that it will never happen regularly because I doubt either could play 60% of the game as a forward.
Pleasing wrote:The bigger concern is Hickey isn't even rucking for Sandy, seems they want him to spend more time working on his forward game, not sure if this is just a development focus for a few weeks or protecting him from injury but there is almost zero chance we will play both of them in the same team at AFL level so I doubt it is part of a strategy to go tall in the forward line. Maybe we are putting him in cotton wool knowing that Longer will not be able to last the whole season one out in the ruck.
You say there is almost zero chance of them playing together - based on what?
It seems plainly obvious that the very reason he is playing as a permanent forward at the moment is so that he can work on his forward craft. The best, and only, explanation is because the club wants Longer and Hickey to play in the same team and they are grooming them slowly. If Hickey has a couple of good games as a forward in the VFL, then I fully expect him to come in and play with Longer. Or, alternatively, to swap with Longer and let Longer then spend a few weeks as a permanent forward. But the intent is plain to see.
And, by the way, the club has officially said a couple of times that they'd like the two to play together.
So zero chance? Based on what?
Well at the moment on fact. It will eventually happen but im with Pleasing in that it will never happen regularly because I doubt either could play 60% of the game as a forward.
Pleasing wrote:The bigger concern is Hickey isn't even rucking for Sandy, seems they want him to spend more time working on his forward game, not sure if this is just a development focus for a few weeks or protecting him from injury but there is almost zero chance we will play both of them in the same team at AFL level so I doubt it is part of a strategy to go tall in the forward line. Maybe we are putting him in cotton wool knowing that Longer will not be able to last the whole season one out in the ruck.
You say there is almost zero chance of them playing together - based on what?
It seems plainly obvious that the very reason he is playing as a permanent forward at the moment is so that he can work on his forward craft. The best, and only, explanation is because the club wants Longer and Hickey to play in the same team and they are grooming them slowly. If Hickey has a couple of good games as a forward in the VFL, then I fully expect him to come in and play with Longer. Or, alternatively, to swap with Longer and let Longer then spend a few weeks as a permanent forward. But the intent is plain to see.
And, by the way, the club has officially said a couple of times that they'd like the two to play together.
So zero chance? Based on what?
Well at the moment on fact. It will eventually happen but im with Pleasing in that it will never happen regularly because I doubt either could play 60% of the game as a forward.
