I need help

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Post Reply
plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

I need help

Post: # 1554769Post plugger66 »

Im sure everyone knows that but can someone explain why Longer is still playing and poor Hickey gets subbed 2 weeks in a row. Hickey isn't a forward and the coaches surely know that but if you play him then keep him playing or don't play him at all. If injured I apologise. In the mean time Longer gets his 7 possessions a game and we get nothing from him around the ground. One has to go and I reckon its really harsh on Hickey as he is being played out of position. And for those who say it doesn't matter this year as we are getting games into Longer well that's fine but we aren't getting games into Hickey in his rightful position.


ROLS-LEE
Club Player
Posts: 1210
Joined: Tue 25 Sep 2007 3:45am
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554770Post ROLS-LEE »

I agree Plugger. Ceglar smashed us. Hickey last year before injury was very good. We need him back at that level.


User avatar
borderbarry
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6676
Joined: Mon 19 Apr 2004 11:22pm
Location: Wodonga

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554771Post borderbarry »

The number of relatiely easy marks Hickey has dropped over the last two games has not helped his cause.


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554773Post plugger66 »

borderbarry wrote:The number of relatiely easy marks Hickey has dropped over the last two games has not helped his cause.

As opposed to Longer just taking them all.


noob
Club Player
Posts: 1762
Joined: Mon 09 Jun 2008 10:32am

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554776Post noob »

Hickey does more around the ground. Longer's strength is his ruckwork and lost today. We shouldn't just gift games to Longer. Let him earn it.


SainterK
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 21057
Joined: Thu 14 Aug 2008 9:53pm
Location: Melb

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554777Post SainterK »

As opposed to longer, has he taken a contested mark Baz?

I don't get it either.

Hickey should seek a trade.

If you've forgotten, watch rd 1-3 last year before he got injured.

Like p66 I will apologise if injured or it's discipline.

Otherwise I just think Alan prefers Bill, that's not Bills fault though, so I'm careful not to sound like I'm bagging him.


RW&B
Club Player
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri 30 Jul 2010 2:39am
Location: Melbourne

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554797Post RW&B »

It has gotten quite a bit of coverage lately that David Armitage sat down with Richo and spoke about emulating Jordan Lewis and it has done wonders for Armo. I think Richo/Skrobalak/Kingsley could do worse than sit down with Bill and go through Todd Goldstein's tapes. I think Billy has the ability and skill set to be a Goldstein type down the track.

For the purpose of this thread, I'd rest Billy and ruck Hickey next week.


"I'm a better coach when Nick Riewoldt is in the side" - Ross Lyon 2007
User avatar
BackFromUSA
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4642
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 12:38am
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 508 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554798Post BackFromUSA »

I agree Plugger66. 100%.


AwayInUSA no longer ... have based myself back in Melbourne for a decade of Saintsational Success (with regular trips back to the USA)

"Saintsational Player Sponsor 2007 - 2018"
saintjake
Club Player
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat 09 Feb 2008 1:49pm
Contact:

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554801Post saintjake »

RW&B wrote:It has gotten quite a bit of coverage lately that David Armitage sat down with Richo and spoke about emulating Jordan Lewis and it has done wonders for Armo. I think Richo/Skrobalak/Kingsley could do worse than sit down with Bill and go through Todd Goldstein's tapes. I think Billy has the ability and skill set to be a Goldstein type down the track.

For the purpose of this thread, I'd rest Billy and ruck Hickey next week.

I think Longer is more the Darren Jolly type ruckman and Hickey is the Goldstein


saintspremiers
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 25303
Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
Location: Trump Tower
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 284 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554809Post saintspremiers »

Hickey was hobbling and appeared a bit injured.

Maybe we need to go back to playing one ruckman.

If Gilbo comes back in next week, it least it's a tall for a tall.


i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
falka
Club Player
Posts: 455
Joined: Sat 25 Oct 2008 6:03pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554811Post falka »

Longer is very average.
I am not a fan. Gives away frees and whines with that stupid goatie then drops a mark! Repeat
Agree re Hickey being treated unfairly.


whiskers3614
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4564
Joined: Thu 20 May 2010 11:49pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 314 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554814Post whiskers3614 »

At last,
a thread title that unites us all!


jonesy
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun 18 Jun 2006 2:04pm
Location: Melb
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554817Post jonesy »

Because they're putting games into both to get the trade value up for one of them...


Bring back the Lockett era
User avatar
magnifisaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8140
Joined: Sun 02 May 2004 2:52am
Has thanked: 228 times
Been thanked: 610 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554820Post magnifisaint »

I don't think Ceglar smashed Longer at all. He just has better players around him. Hickey will play again next week unless he's injured.


Posting 20 years of holey crap!
User avatar
samuraisaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5928
Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 3:23pm
Location: Outside Lucky Burgers
Has thanked: 857 times
Been thanked: 801 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554821Post samuraisaint »

Agree with Plugger66 here. There was an element of acceptance that we had to minimise damage about Hickey coming off; that we conceded we couldn't win. Hickey may have had a slight injury though because he came off with something lat last week as well. Would like to see Hickey ruck all game against Dees next week.


Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.
plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554822Post plugger66 »

jonesy wrote:Because they're putting games into both to get the trade value up for one of them...

Is their value going up by both playing only fairly. I don't see how that can happen.


cwrcyn
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4321
Joined: Fri 15 Sep 2006 10:35am
Location: earth
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1442 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554833Post cwrcyn »

Longer has been awful in the past few games. Terrible below his knees and lacks the mobility required for the modern game. He would have suited 1970s football beautifully. Right now I would say that Holmes would probably provide the same output, but get more taps.


Toy Saint
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2203
Joined: Wed 19 Aug 2009 10:32pm
Location: Del Mar, California
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 237 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554837Post Toy Saint »

Both Hickey and Longer have been dissapointing the past 5 weeks, perhaps we should be looking at the next option. It appears Holmes is a great tap ruckman but is lost around the ground, but he is improving.

It was counterproductive to see Bruce in the ruck in the final quarter yesterday, he was awful and it burned his petrol tickets; he was too knackered up forward. Two average rucks is not ideal, but we have no backup. Last year we had Stanley, so we could play ruck, but this year we have no backup. It's a pity the Hickey/foward trial has failed.

It seems to me that we need a good tap ruckman who can run all day, with a bit of support from a couple of big types at either end. We've got Membrey and Lee in the seconds that are built like 2nd rucks from the 1960's. Then there is Goddard & McCartin, both big but young. I've actually got a theory that you should not use the prized thoroughbred in the ruck, that's the job for the draft horse.


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554841Post plugger66 »

Toy Saint wrote:Both Hickey and Longer have been dissapointing the past 5 weeks, perhaps we should be looking at the next option. It appears Holmes is a great tap ruckman but is lost around the ground, but he is improving.

It was counterproductive to see Bruce in the ruck in the final quarter yesterday, he was awful and it burned his petrol tickets; he was too knackered up forward. Two average rucks is not ideal, but we have no backup. Last year we had Stanley, so we could play ruck, but this year we have no backup. It's a pity the Hickey/foward trial has failed.

It seems to me that we need a good tap ruckman who can run all day, with a bit of support from a couple of big types at either end. We've got Membrey and Lee in the seconds that are built like 2nd rucks from the 1960's. Then there is Goddard & McCartin, both big but young. I've actually got a theory that you should not use the prized thoroughbred in the ruck, that's the job for the draft horse.

Of course Hickey has been disappointing. He isn't ever going to be a forward. I feel for him. I really hope he has a slight injury so he cant ruck but then would be wondering why the hell he is playing.


CURLY
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10457
Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
Location: WARBURTON
Has thanked: 148 times
Been thanked: 1329 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554844Post CURLY »

Like Longer in the ruck and at 21 is still LEARNING his role. Gives us more than a contest each time which is what you want as a mid fielder.


NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
felix
Club Player
Posts: 1236
Joined: Tue 08 Nov 2011 3:29pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554846Post felix »

Richo talks about Hickry and Longer a little in his post game presser doesn't enlighten a lot but seems he will persevere with trying to make Hickey a forward , said Longer has been ok got beaten today but he is our ruck for now.


Freebird
Club Player
Posts: 919
Joined: Sun 29 Jan 2012 12:37pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554847Post Freebird »

plugger66 wrote:Im sure everyone knows that but can someone explain why Longer is still playing and poor Hickey gets subbed 2 weeks in a row. Hickey isn't a forward and the coaches surely know that but if you play him then keep him playing or don't play him at all. If injured I apologise. In the mean time Longer gets his 7 possessions a game and we get nothing from him around the ground. One has to go and I reckon its really harsh on Hickey as he is being played out of position. And for those who say it doesn't matter this year as we are getting games into Longer well that's fine but we aren't getting games into Hickey in his rightful position.
The reason is obvious - Longer is the better ruckman and Hickey is sub-standard in most areas. Longer not great but > Hickey


saint-stu
Club Player
Posts: 1192
Joined: Thu 22 Nov 2007 8:27pm
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554848Post saint-stu »

Richo said himself that the ruck combination didn't work yesterday. Hickey did OK for a few weeks in that position but he really doesn't look at all like a forward. It is a shame because he looked really good as the no.1 ruckman after McEvoy left.

I know it's extremely unlikely and we would need another injury which we don't want, but I desperately want to see Holmes get a run in the seniors. He dominates in the ruck each week at VFL level. Yes, he is still learning basic skills, but I don't think our senior rucks are offering much other than tap work anyway. And I suspect Holmes will be better than both of them at that.

He has that x-factor. I only wish we rookied him a bit earlier as he's already in his prime (age wise) and is still learning.


1ac46a38
Milne
Club Player
Posts: 1392
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 5:15pm
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554849Post Milne »

I agree about the coaching situation with Hickey, but let's give Longer a bit more of a chance. He has come a long way since last year and is only young.


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: I need help

Post: # 1554850Post plugger66 »

Freebird wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Im sure everyone knows that but can someone explain why Longer is still playing and poor Hickey gets subbed 2 weeks in a row. Hickey isn't a forward and the coaches surely know that but if you play him then keep him playing or don't play him at all. If injured I apologise. In the mean time Longer gets his 7 possessions a game and we get nothing from him around the ground. One has to go and I reckon its really harsh on Hickey as he is being played out of position. And for those who say it doesn't matter this year as we are getting games into Longer well that's fine but we aren't getting games into Hickey in his rightful position.
The reason is obvious - Longer is the better ruckman and Hickey is sub-standard in most areas. Longer not great but > Hickey

Longer taps the ball more often but isn't anywhere near Hickey around the ground. His last 6 games he has averaged about 7 possessions a game and more importantly the opposition ruckman usually has their best game for the year. If Longer is a better overall ruckman than Hickey then Hickey has no real trade value. I cant see it myself. Think Hickey clearly has Longer covered.


Post Reply