That brand of utter garbage football..

[ralphsmith]

Should not be tolerated next year. The saints were an embarassment today all over.
Yes I am tolerating it this year, no goals in a half of football? At our home ground? That is s***.

Not going to pick on anyone, the unit ...the team as a whole was total rubbish.

Now, this list is capable of performing many magnitudes better than that garbage today. So much so I think we can make finals next year, and top 4 after that.

But today was s***. Appalling.

[Enrico_Misso]

We probably had 45% of the play which should have been enough to have had a respectable loss.

But the story of the day was EVERY time we got it we turned it over with atrocious decision making and execution errors
- hand balling to a player under pressure
- kicking short of a forward or over his head, or straight to a Shytney defender

On the other hand the Salary Cap Cheats put chains of handballs together to players in space and then passed to the chest of a leading forward.

We were bad.
They were good.

[bergholt]

Should not be tolerated next year. The saints were an embarassment today all over.
Yes I am tolerating it this year, no goals in a half of football? At our home ground? That is s***.

Not going to pick on anyone, the unit ...the team as a whole was total rubbish.

Now, this list is capable of performing many magnitudes better than that garbage today. So much so I think we can make finals next year, and top 4 after that.

But today was s***. Appalling.

Why do you think we can make finals next year? Who are our A-graders who would carry us there?

[ace]

That game merely shows how far from playing in a grand finally we really are.

We have recruited a lot of hard triers of late.
A lot of skim milk but where is the full cream milk and where is the thickened cream once Riewoldt retires.

[samuraisaint]

I knew that the final 6 rounds would be very tough. Injuries, players retiring, young players tiring. The Geelong game was our last hurrah this year guys, shame we couldn't have won it, but at least we got some points. Not looking forward to the match this week at all. Melbourne should go above us this week if they are fair dinkum.
6 wins and a draw has been a massive effort yhis year. If we finish 6th from bottom, should Melbourne not win (which they should), most St. Kilda supporters and footy pundits in general would give us a clear B+. The number of 10 goal losses is still a concern. Our first 16 rounds were reasonably soft; the last 6 were always going to be a reality check.

[samuraisaint]

We probably had 45% of the play which should have been enough to have had a respectable loss.

But the story of the day was EVERY time we got it we turned it over with atrocious decision making and execution errors
- hand balling to a player under pressure
- kicking short of a forward or over his head, or straight to a Shytney defender

On the other hand the Salary Cap Cheats put chains of handballs together to players in space and then passed to the chest of a leading forward.

We were bad.
They were good.

Sydney shouldn't beat anybody by 17 goals - esp interstate. But I have to say that I thought these types of hidings would occur in the final 6 rounds. That's two losses by over 10 goals in the last 5 rounds, and two passable efforts, with one A - against Geelong. Glad I' m not going to Perth this week.

[plugger66]

6 and half wins. Only biased Saints supporters could have seen that. Non biased people had us from no wins to about 5 so we have had a great year. Yesterday was pathetic but it happens with sides like us. Look at how the bottom clubs have been going lately. That was our only bad game in about the last 10 games.

[saintspremiers]

6 and half wins. Only biased Saints supporters could have seen that. Non biased people had us from no wins to about 5 so we have had a great year. Yesterday was pathetic but it happens with sides like us. Look at how the bottom clubs have been going lately. That was our only bad game in about the last 10 games.

Anyone on here pre season saying we'd have 6 or 7 wins would've and were told by most (including me) that they were insane.

[Moods]

Let's be homest - our effort was there yesterday. Especially in the first half. It's our atrocious kicking for goal that is slaughtering us. We were sitting on 4 goals 12 for an eternity.

Against top teams, you just have to convert and put some score board pressure on. I thought our general play in the first half wasn't too bad. But running into open goals (Armo) and missing easy set shots (Hickey) just kills you.

[mambo2706]

Yes I am tolerating it this year, no goals in a half of football? At our home ground? That is s***.

We kicked 3 goals in the first half and one in the second half.

I want to know how many of our kicks traveled more than 20m. Was very frustrating watching them chipping away with short kicks, gaining maybe 30m and then turing the ball over.

[Goose is king]

[quote="saintspremiers"][quote="plugger66"]6 and half wins. Only biased Saints supporters could have seen that. Non biased people had us from no wins to about 5 so we have had a great year. Yesterday was pathetic but it happens with sides like us. Look at how the bottom clubs have been going lately. That was our only bad game in about the last 10 games.[/quote]

Anyone on here pre season saying we'd have 6 or 7 wins would've and were told by most (including me) that they were insane.[/quote]


Yep. In the predictions thread at the start of the year I couldn't believe it (and told them) when someone said 7 wins. I think I said 3 or maybe four. I had is finishing last so for me it's been a great year and we always new we were a long way off contending

[samuraisaint]

6 and half wins. Only biased Saints supporters could have seen that. Non biased people had us from no wins to about 5 so we have had a great year. Yesterday was pathetic but it happens with sides like us. Look at how the bottom clubs have been going lately. That was our only bad game in about the last 10 games.

Well, let's be honest, it wasn't our only bad game in the last 10 games - we stunk it up against Port too.

And letting North kick 9 goals against us in a single quarter down in Hobart was pretty poor too.

The rest I'll drink to.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Meh. Under the new fixture system we had a very favourable draw.

Who of substance did we beat? The Bulldogs in that 55-pt comeback game was our best win.

[Sainternist]

Yesterday was the worst performance for 2015. It was a completely unacceptable performance. Unfocused, undisciplined and completely lacking in intensity. The danger is that they carry this poor form into the match over in Perth and make all that hard work which has gone into improving since last year not be so apparent at the finish line.

Next year's benchmark should be to finish the season with 11 wins.

[roskilde]

Forward 50 entry stands out the most for me and the interesting thing is it seems to affect both our gifted ball users and our donkeys equally. Makes me think it's a connection/leading problem and less of an execution problem.

[Sobraz]

Next year's benchmark should be to finish the season with 11 wins.

Much like I thought those that anticipated 6+ wins this were dreaming, I firmly believe 11 wins next year is flying pigs likelihood.

Will be lucky to match this years effort. Which I don't entirely mind. Ready to jump to finals contenders the following year, top 4 possibilities the year after (2018).

[samuraisaint]

Will dip/stagnate the first season we have without the Riewoldt/Montagna/Dempster presences. I wouldn't expect a return to finals action until 2020. Hopefully we are back in the top 4 ala 1997, 2004.

Anything lower than fourth is just making up the numbers IMO.

[prwilkinson]

It was an interesting game yesterday. I thought Richo's strategy was exposed early and we had no plan B. As soon as Sydney went man on man across the ground we were cooked. Our inaccuracy really didn't help either because the game just slipped away with 3 or 4 very frustrating twelve point turn around goals from Sydney. I remember looking up at the scoreboard and thinking geesss... 40 points down, the young guys really had no reward for effort and it completely slipped away from there.

What I found interesting was how drilled the guys are not to kick to a contest. I mean, when Sydney went one on one, St Kilda coughed up 4 or 5 ridiculous turnovers trying to get it to someone in space simply because they refused or are just so drilled not to kick to a contest 70m down the line. They'll learn a lot from that smashing I think, Richo too.

[Toy Saint]

Agree that game plan just didn't work, I'm a big fan of Richo, but I reckon we were completely outsmarted in the coaches box.

If we had lined up in the traditional positions and went one on one, we may have lost by 4 or 5 goals. Gosh, we may have even won a few contests and got lucky.

Somehow we just got sucked into playing a crap brand that didn't work. There were numerous occasions we had possesion on the wing, kicked forward under pressure, and almost always we had nobody anyware near the contest. They took possesion and moved the ball clealy and mostly to players in the clear.

What I saw on Sunday was a combination of poor coaching and a lack of experience and leadership on the field. I really don't think the Swans are that much better than us.

[Bruce G McAbee]

this was our first real smashing of the year. Even in our 10 goal losses we were competitive for some of the game. We have a much higher percentage than last year.
I expected at best 5 wins, so for me we have finished better than expected. Just want to see them compete next week but West Coasts big forward line is going to be a real problem for us.
Not sure what my expectations are for next year. Win at least the same amount of games, but have a higher percentage again showing that we are more competitive and staying in games closer would be okay.
Win a couple of extra games is about as much as I expect, maybe 8, is more achievable and probable. Hopefully next season we see McCartin blossom a bit, Billings play a full season. More improvement from Bruce, Hickey, Holmes, Membrey. Lonie and Sinclair build on what they started. Dunstan, Ross, Blake start becoming consistent ball winners and start winning midfield battles.
Of all the players that maybe available during the trade period, Carlisle from Essendon is the one we would most benefit from recruiting as we need a strong and rebounding defender who can take on the monsters.
As someone said in the paper today, maybe for us the season is two weeks too long this year.
However, once again, for us the trade, draft period will be exciting again.

[Sainternist]

Will dip/stagnate the first season we have without the Riewoldt/Montagna/Dempster presences.

I don't think that will necessarily be the case. Despite those three players leaving big shoes to fill, I thought there were some promising signs in the matches played with Roo missing this year. I think they'll be well prepared for his departure. Our midfield and backline will be well equipped by the time Joey and Dempster hang up their boots. Don't worry. We'll have the bases covered.

Next year's benchmark should be to finish the season with 11 wins.

Much like I thought those that anticipated 6+ wins this were dreaming, I firmly believe 11 wins next year is flying pigs likelihood.

Will be lucky to match this years effort. Which I don't entirely mind. Ready to jump to finals contenders the following year, top 4 possibilities the year after (2018).

A lot of the youngsters will come of age next year and really blossom. Apart from Sunday and perhaps one or two other games, we've been extremely competitive. I can't see how 11 wins next year can be an unrealistic target.

[bergholt]

A lot of the youngsters will come of age next year and really blossom.

"A lot"? Will they? I hope so but is that really likely?

Here's a look at the sub-70 game players in groups:

Could Approach A-Grade in 2016

Billings (25 games, 20 yo): Looked really good before injury, should definitely take another step next year.
Dunstan (34 games, 20 yo): Disappointing second season but should already be setting himself for a big pre-season and a huge 2016, definitely capable.
Bruce (45 games, 23 yo): Great start, much quieter second half. Could definitely become more consistent and kick 60+ for the year, be A-grade.
Newnes (68 games, 22 yo): Solid B-grade season this year, I suppose he could take another step next year and become an A-grader.
Webster (38 games, 22 yo): Good season as a small back, only an outside chance of becoming a star but should improve again next year to approach A-grade.

Could Be Solid B-Grade in 2016

Weller (67 games, 23 yo): Solid B-grade season, I can't see him becoming an A-grader but workrate and attitude means he'll earn his spot for a while yet.
Goddard (7 games, 19 yo): Very promising first year, lots of work to do physically in the off-season and will be better next year.
Membrey (13 games, 21 yo): Good signs from him but needs to keep improving and find consistency. Will be better next year.
Sinclair (17 games, 20 yo rookie): Exceeded all expectations and seems a certainty. Needs a couple of big pre-seasons still to reach A-grade though.
Longer (43 games, 22 yo): Very competitive but doesn't stand out around the ground. Still a couple of years away from top form for mine.
Hickey (41 games, 24 yo): Only played half the games but has developed as a forward, still a lot of work to do on consistency though.
Ross (36 games, 22 yo): Some good games and some poor ones. Heaps of work to do still on his tank before he's even consistently B-grade.

Might Not Be B-Grade Yet But Should Improve in 2016

Lonie (16 games, 19 yo): Exceeded all expectations. Needs to kick more goals but will certainly be better next year.
McCartin (6 games, 19 yo): Only one really good game but that's fine for a key forward in his first season. Probably a few years away from getting there.
McKenzie (7 games, 19 yo): Showed good signs, will definitely improve as he builds his tank.
Acres (10 games, 19 yo): Will keep improving but still a couple of years away from peak form IMO.
Wright (20 games, 21 yo): Has good attributes but also makes mistakes and is unlucky with injury. Hopefully becomes a player next year.

Still a Long Way to Go

Holmes (2 games, 25 yo rookie): Better than expected but still a really long way from being AFL standard.
Templeton (12 games, 20 yo): Disappointing second year, not sure what happens next for him.
Murdoch (19 games, 21 yo): Injured and in the twos. Seems to have some positives but impossible to predict at this point.
Delaney (59 games, 26 yo): Can't get a game in a team short of key backs, seems unlikely to be anything other than a backup.
Minchington (10 games, 21 yo): Would be OK in the absence of other small forwards but is probably not quite good enough for AFL level.
Shenton (24 games, 25 yo): Just OK, what you see is what you get with him, unlikely to suddenly become even a consistent B-grader.
Lee (13 games, 24 yo): Who knows? Seems to be a key back now but didn't get a game all year. Maybe?

Surely Gone

Saunders (22 games, 21 yo): Not impressive in his couple of games, would be lucky to stay on the list.
Curren (25 games, 23 yo): Only two games, a lot at Sandy before injury, will be up against it to stay around.
Simpkin (31 games, 25 yo): Couldn't get a game, likely to be gone next year.
Siposs (28 games, 22 yo): Injured then couldn't find form, unlikely to remain on the list.
White (2 games, 20 yo): No idea, probably gone.
Saad (33 games, 25 yo rookie): Couldn't get a game, will be gone next year.
Markworth (0 games, 23 yo): No idea, surely gone.


I think overall there's definitely improvement in the group next year but I'm not sure how much. Some luck with injuries sees Billings make it and become really good, all of Dunstan, Bruce, Newnes and Webster could be bona fide A-graders in a year. (Though most likely not all of them get there.) And then there's guys like Goddard, Membrey, Sinclair, Ross who will definitely improve again, but probably won't get to A grade in 2016. The rest are real outside chances.

So some improvement from youngsters, but the oldies will be a year older. Considering Riewoldt, Dempster and Montagna (probably also Fisher) will finish top 10 of the B&F, any dropoff from them will hurt.

2017 is a bigger improvement year than 2016 for mine. At that point we should have a big bunch between 40 and 100 games: Newnes, Weller, Bruce, Longer, Hickey, Webster, Ross, Dunstan, Billings. And then developing below them: Wright, Murdoch, Sinclair, Lonie, Membrey, Acres, Goddard, McKenzie, McCartin. That's about 18 who could be pretty good and improving rapidly.

Having overly high expectations for next year is a recipe for disaster.

[samoht]

We need to keep recruiting players with kicking skills, but also ball-winning ability - and/or start poaching them - to replace those that lack the basic skills. Murdoch and Minchington have kicking skills but they don't win enough possessions.

We need to play one ruck only with a pinch-hitter helping out. Hickey and Holmes only had a handful of possessions between them around the ground.

Pierce should be given a game next week - as our sole ruckman. He's good around the ground. He has big, strong legs - and didn't get pushed around by Jamar - just needs to develop his upper body.