2015 - Draft & Trade Thread

[saynta]

What we have done is added Carlisle and Freeman to the List - plus Rice to come.

And we have a first round presence at Pick 14.

That is the outcome - and we got the players who have nominated that they wished to play for St Kilda and who we set out to obtain.

End of story.

Given the Draft is being spoken to as "weak", where does that put us with putting players on the Rookie List and, given Sippos picked up 22 Votes in the Sandringham B&F from limited appearances due to injury, would it be a consideration to put him on the Rookie List?

If not, what are the options given the "weak" Draft?

On that. It seems players nominated us even though we are still at Seaford. maybe they didn't nominate us previously because we were looking like a basket case and it wasn't where we trained. Having said that Freeman lives in Dingley and Rice must live somewhere near Dandy. Carlisle is prepared to come from the North though.

You would think on his contract he could afford to rent a house near Moorabbin/Seaford to ease the travelling.

He's already said that, but with the money we are paying him, he could aford to buy.

[White Winmar]

RIOLI - pick 14

Theres a RIOLI who wants to make it is a GUN just like his family is/was so why not take him?? We NEED SPEED! We NEED SKILL. Why would we let rioli go when it will be the steal of the draft.

Just cause hes rated at 25-30 when hes 17!?

He willbe the best of the draft

Going by his highlights reel, he reminds me of Gavin Wanganeen. If he's half as good, he'd be worth the punt, especially if others pass on him. Remember Cyril Rioli was overlooked because of concerns over a psych test. I wonder how all the clubs that passed on him feel now. The irony is we chose Ben McEvoy, who's ended up a double premiership player with the dorks. D'Oh!

[Bluthy]

x

[saynta]

RIOLI - pick 14

Theres a RIOLI who wants to make it is a GUN just like his family is/was so why not take him?? We NEED SPEED! We NEED SKILL. Why would we let rioli go when it will be the steal of the draft.

Just cause hes rated at 25-30 when hes 17!?

He willbe the best of the draft

Going by his highlights reel, he reminds me of Gavin Wanganeen. If he's half as good, he'd be worth the punt, especially if others pass on him. Remember Cyril Rioli was overlooked because of concerns over a psych test. I wonder how all the clubs that passed on him feel now. The irony is we chose Ben McEvoy, who's ended up a double premiership player with the dorks. D'Oh!

That decision along with the one to pass on Darling and pick the home boy still keeps me awake at night.

I say hang on to pick 14 and hope Rioli is still there at that pick.

He isn't rated top ten at the moment.

[kosifantutti]

WE DON'T HAVE PICK 14

We have pick 14 today but on draft day we have choice 19.
There are 5 academy players who should be called by the clubs going in with the first 13 picks.
If they call one if these academy players then the academy club moves up the order using the points bidding system.
We then slip down the order by one place.
Like I impied this should happen 5 times.
If the 5 don't occur it is only because the calling club knew they would be trumped so did not bother.

WE HAVE CHOICE 19

Yes but the players that are talked about never include the Academy kids so it doesn't matter. We have the 14th pick not including the players that they don't bother mentioning. And I don't think it will be 5 anyway.

I am going by Callum Twomey (AFL) Phantom draft
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-20/u ... form-guide


Using his picks expect
Mills called by pick 3 club being trumped by Sydney
Hopper called by pick 4 club being trumped by GWS
Kennedy called by pick 7 club being trumped by GWS
Keays called by pick 10 club being trumped by Brisbane
Hipwood called by pick 11 club being trumped by Brisbane

Now I agree the academy players are unlikely to be called at those pick numbers because other clubs may not bother.
But in a completely open draft and without the fear of the go home factor they would be called.


But you have probably missed the idea behind my post - pick 14 ain't that great.
Our odds of getting a real gun in a weak draft are not that flash.
At pick 5 Twomey would have allocated us Balic.

After the draft camps, it turns out that the draft isn't as weak as first suggested. Never is either. You need to advance about 3 or 4 years to really give an opinion whether or not it was a weak or strong draft.

Agreed. I never understood all this weak draft / strong draft stuff. They are 18 year olds playing against other 18 year olds. But we really want to know what they will be like as 22 year olds playing against other men.

[White Winmar]

I don't buy this rubbish about it being a weak draft. Having been involved in the process for many years, the recruiters and list managers say it every year to cover their asses. After the draft, they're all happy with what they've got, with the typical quote being, "We can't believe we got (insert name) at pick (insert number). As for us getting shafted. How can anyone say that? We got exactly what we wanted and needed and we haven't finished yet. You don't get shafted in any deal when you get what you need.

[saynta]

I don't buy this rubbish about it being a weak draft. Having been involved in the process for many years, the recruiters and list managers say it every year to cover their asses. After the draft, they're all happy with what they've got, with the typical quote being, "We can't believe we got (insert name) at pick (insert number). As for us getting shafted. How can anyone say that? We got exactly what we wanted and needed and we haven't finished yet. You don't get shafted in any deal when you get what you need.

I have only ever said that we got shafted over pick 44 which was reportedly coming to us. Happy with the deal if Carlisle doesn't get suspended and pulls his digit out for us.

By the way, my source says you are close to the truth with Spencer and that the op was crap.

[Con Gorozidis]

Agree with posts above. They say 'weak draft' every year. How can they tell when it is 18yo v 18yos? As Kosi says. I assume it is just an ass covering exercise just in case.

Having said that - Id love it we closed the deal on Weller.

If not we just need to get pick 14 right on a kid and then get our first rounder right next year.

[saintsRrising]

Dees have pretty much nailed this trade period. After having been a rabble for so long, they have certainly got their act into gear the last couple of years off-field.

They will have quitea good list after the draft picks are taken

[realdeal]

So what if Essendon did ok out of it? Our aim wasn't to do them over, it was to get Carlisle and maintain a presence in the first round. We achieved that. Anyone who's motivated by trying to get one over the drug cheats is as bad as they are. That's what they try to do and they failed miserably.

Fair comments on reflection.

We stated we wanted both of their picks in the mid 20's as well.... We didn't do this. Not even one of them.

No, we got pick 14 instead!!??

I realise this, however, we also lost pick 24. For pick 5 alone we wanted Carlisle +..........

[ace]

Collingwood have 2 second rounders, 26 & 28, 1 third rounder 47 and 1 fourth rounder 63 for a total of 1,834 points.
Worth somewhere between pick 5 & 6.
They can't use any more picks from 2016.

Now watch as Collingwood ream Brisbane.
Take what we offer you or we teach Aish to do a Luke Ball to you.

[ace]

What a mess
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-21/i ... od-unfolds
And more to come tomorrow.

[sunsaint]

What a mess
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-21/i ... od-unfolds
And more to come tomorrow.

it gets muddy when you have traded picks from 2011 coming into play (RFC pick 19)

[To the top]

On the concerns re the Essendon FC injecting regime, which is still to be formally adjudicated on in the correct jurisdiction, I would trust that the ultimate responsible party is the Essendon FC which embarked on an injection regime to add bulk to the bodies of their contracted players and now says it has no records or knowledge of what was injected including because the records have been shredded by the Essendon Football Club.

It is the CLUB and the administration of the CLUB which is at fault - and it is the CLUB and the administration of the CLUB which should pay the price - by expulsion.

The players, as employees and where, no doubt, peer group pressure came into play (did the CLUB address this culture and this risk?) should not pay the ultimate price - and Watson should keep his Brownlow Medal which would appease his very agitated father who is primarily concerned that the Medal will be revoked (obvious from his media comments noting that, following his abject failure as a Coach, he is now employed in the media at Channel 7).

Armstrong was a different case, albeit his defence was that everyone else was doing it so his team had to do it to remain competitive, and Armstrong was not naive in regards process and development of the culture - and the team he competed for in winning those Tour of France events no longer competes in cycling.

Essendon FC should correctly pay the price.

As Stan Alves says, you do not go to footy practice to be injected - with what precisely?

But that was the regime at the Essendon FC.

[ace]

Callum Twomey has Bailey Rice as choice 24 in his phantom draft.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-20/u ... form-guide

Cx x = number order of the player called
Px x = flexible draft order number
Clubx x = pre draft pick number

I raise this because if his phantom were correct this is how the draft would unfold.
C1 P1 Carlton1 Weitering
C2 P2 Brisbane2 Schache
C3 P3 Melbourne3 Mills trumped by Sydney spends P23 and much more
C3 P3 Sydney23 Mills
C4 P4 Melbourne3 Parish
C5 P5 Essendon4 Hopper trumped by GWS spends P10
C5 P5 GWS10 Hopper
C6 P6 Essendon4 Francis
C7 P7 Essendon5 Balic
C8 P8 Gold Coast6 Weideman
C9 P9 Melbourne7 Kennedy trumped by GWS spends P27 and more
C9 P9 GWS27 Kennedy
C10 P10 Melbourne7 Mathieson
C11 P11 Carlton8 Tucker
C12 P12 Adelaide9 Curnow
______ GWS10 has already been spent
C13 P13 Bulldogs11 Keays trumped by Brisbane spends P17
C13 P13 Brisbane17 Keays
C14 P14 Bulldogs11 Ah Chee
C15 P15 Richmond12 Hipwood trumped by Brisbane spends P39 and more
C15 P15 Brisbane39 Hipwood
C16 P16 Richmond12 Dunkley
C17 P17 Adelaide13 Burton
C18 P18 St Kilda14 Bonner
C19 P19 Hawthorn15 Gresham
C20 P20 Gold Coast16 McKay
C21 P21 Brisbane17 Milera
C22 P22 Hawthorn 18 Cole
C23 P23 Gold Coast19 Collins
C24 P24 Carlton20 Rice trumped by St Kilda spends ??????????
C24 P24 St Kilda???????? Rice
C25 P25 Carlton20 Hibberd

Now did anyone notice how our pre draft pick 14 slipped to actual pick 18 as a result of academy picks.

P24 requires StKilda to stump up 785-197 = 588 points to get Bailey Rice
Pick 45 and pick 68 will both slip yielding less points than we expect.
Before the draft they would be worth about 406 points but due to slippage in the draft they may yield closer to 288 points.
Where do those extra 300 points come from.
Not from our first rounder next year, because of the recent AFL rule amendment.
They should come from our 2016 second rounder because we are taking Rice in the second round just.
BUT we have already sold that to Collingwood.
I am not clear but they may come from our 2016 3rd rounder.

We would then be using our 2016 3rd rounder and our 2015 3rd rounder & 4th rounder to get Rice.

[Con Gorozidis]

Im very much into Bonner. Would be a very good get.

Im a bit surprised Oliver isnt top 25. I know he wasnt in the rep sides but he won the Morrish and then tested well. Also has afl size.

[ace]

On the concerns re the Essendon FC injecting regime, which is still to be formally adjudicated on in the correct jurisdiction, I would trust that the ultimate responsible party is the Essendon FC which embarked on an injection regime to add bulk to the bodies of their contracted players and now says it has no records or knowledge of what was injected including because the records have been shredded by the Essendon Football Club.

It is the CLUB and the administration of the CLUB which is at fault - and it is the CLUB and the administration of the CLUB which should pay the price - by expulsion.

The players, as employees and where, no doubt, peer group pressure came into play (did the CLUB address this culture and this risk?) should not pay the ultimate price - and Watson should keep his Brownlow Medal which would appease his very agitated father who is primarily concerned that the Medal will be revoked (obvious from his media comments noting that, following his abject failure as a Coach, he is now employed in the media at Channel 7).

Armstrong was a different case, albeit his defence was that everyone else was doing it so his team had to do it to remain competitive, and Armstrong was not naive in regards process and development of the culture - and the team he competed for in winning those Tour of France events no longer competes in cycling.

Essendon FC should correctly pay the price.

As Stan Alves says, you do not go to footy practice to be injected - with what precisely?

But that was the regime at the Essendon FC.

Each of the players who were contracturally required to obey their CLUB would be able to sue the CLUB for loss of earnings and damage to reputation.
I am sure Slater & Gordon would demand a total sum that would bankrupt the Essendon Football CLUB.
The AFL probably could sue for damage to the reputation of the code.
Not sure if St Kilda could sue for misrepresentation of Carlisle as drug clean.
But James Hird would just say who me, I was only the head coach.
A totally powerless job.

[SuperDuper]

Im very much into Bonner. Would be a very good get.

Im a bit surprised Oliver isnt top 25. I know he wasnt in the rep sides but he won the Morrish and then tested well. Also has afl size.

the above version is from August... the updated version of Twomey's draft is here:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-18/p ... ide-update

Oliver at 23

he could go higher, that is for sure.. would love him at 14 personally... just dont think he will make it there

[Con Gorozidis]

Im very much into Bonner. Would be a very good get.

Im a bit surprised Oliver isnt top 25. I know he wasnt in the rep sides but he won the Morrish and then tested well. Also has afl size.

the above version is from August... the updated version of Twomey's draft is here:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-18/p ... ide-update

Oliver at 23

he could go higher, that is for sure.. would love him at 14 personally... just dont think he will make it there

Thanks. Yep I'd be rapt if we got him. Looks an absolute beauty. Id prefer Oliver over Parish.

Oliver is a unique prospect in this year's draft. The Morrish medallist is a tough and brutal midfielder who enjoys the harder elements of the game. But he also has some flair, enjoying going forward, taking overhead grabs and kicking a goal. In the final round of the home and away season, Oliver, who missed out on Vic Country's final championship squad, gathered 27 disposals and kicked six goals in a dynamic showing. There is plenty of development left in Oliver, who registered a 2.99-second 20-metre sprint time last week and was third overall in his agility run (8.11 seconds).

He also tested top 10 in goalkicking - god knows we need somone who doesnt aim for the points evey time.

[Spinner]

Callum Twomey has Bailey Rice as choice 24 in his phantom draft.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-20/u ... form-guide

Cx x = number order of the player called
Px x = flexible draft order number
Clubx x = pre draft pick number

I raise this because if his phantom were correct this is how the draft would unfold.
C1 P1 Carlton1 Weitering
C2 P2 Brisbane2 Schache
C3 P3 Melbourne3 Mills trumped by Sydney spends P23 and much more
C3 P3 Sydney23 Mills
C4 P4 Melbourne3 Parish
C5 P5 Essendon4 Hopper trumped by GWS spends P10
C5 P5 GWS10 Hopper
C6 P6 Essendon4 Francis
C7 P7 Essendon5 Balic
C8 P8 Gold Coast6 Weideman
C9 P9 Melbourne7 Kennedy trumped by GWS spends P27 and more
C9 P9 GWS27 Kennedy
C10 P10 Melbourne7 Mathieson
C11 P11 Carlton8 Tucker
C12 P12 Adelaide9 Curnow
______ GWS10 has already been spent
C13 P13 Bulldogs11 Keays trumped by Brisbane spends P17
C13 P13 Brisbane17 Keays
C14 P14 Bulldogs11 Ah Chee
C15 P15 Richmond12 Hipwood trumped by Brisbane spends P39 and more
C15 P15 Brisbane39 Hipwood
C16 P16 Richmond12 Dunkley
C17 P17 Adelaide13 Burton
C18 P18 St Kilda14 Bonner
C19 P19 Hawthorn15 Gresham
C20 P20 Gold Coast16 McKay
C21 P21 Brisbane17 Milera
C22 P22 Hawthorn 18 Cole
C23 P23 Gold Coast19 Collins
C24 P24 Carlton20 Rice trumped by St Kilda spends ??????????
C24 P24 St Kilda???????? Rice
C25 P25 Carlton20 Hibberd

Now did anyone notice how our pre draft pick 14 slipped to actual pick 18 as a result of academy picks.

P24 requires StKilda to stump up 785-197 = 588 points to get Bailey Rice
Pick 45 and pick 68 will both slip yielding less points than we expect.
Before the draft they would be worth about 406 points but due to slippage in the draft they may yield closer to 288 points.
Where do those extra 300 points come from.
Not from our first rounder next year, because of the recent AFL rule amendment.
They should come from our 2016 second rounder because we are taking Rice in the second round just.
BUT we have already sold that to Collingwood.
I am not clear but they may come from our 2016 3rd rounder.

We would then be using our 2016 3rd rounder and our 2015 3rd rounder & 4th rounder to get Rice.

This is one of the best posts I've seen on saintsational. Thanks for putting it all together!

[Con Gorozidis]

Wouldnt mind this guy either.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-10-21/ ... cats-champ

If we end up with one of Weller, Bonner, Oliver, Ah Chee I will feel good about trade period.

[Con Gorozidis]

P24 requires StKilda to stump up 785-197 = 588 points to get Bailey Rice
Pick 45 and pick 68 will both slip yielding less points than we expect.
Before the draft they would be worth about 406 points but due to slippage in the draft they may yield closer to 288 points.
Where do those extra 300 points come from.
Not from our first rounder next year, because of the recent AFL rule amendment.
They should come from our 2016 second rounder because we are taking Rice in the second round just.
BUT we have already sold that to Collingwood.
I am not clear but they may come from our 2016 3rd rounder.

We would then be using our 2016 3rd rounder and our 2015 3rd rounder & 4th rounder to get Rice.

You are right. I thought we were going to get 44 from the Bombers which would have locked away Rice.
Our best outcome now is getting Weller + 56 from Freo for pick 14. But this seems unlikely.
Next best outcome is Rice slips through to pick 45. This seems quite possible as Carlton might not want to use such a high pick (21) on him.
Should still be safe - but as I have been saying all along - no guarantees on Rice. Not at all straight fwd.

[Scoop]

Dees have pretty much nailed this trade period. After having been a rabble for so long, they have certainly got their act into gear the last couple of years off-field.

They will have quitea good list after the draft picks are taken

Yes they are doing well with ex-Saints recruiter Jason Taylor at the helm!

[prwilkinson]

Any updates or are we keeping pick 14?

[borderbarry]

Does anyone know if we are still involved in any trades now? I hope we are endeavouring to get some more picks in the draft and to strengthen our position re Rice.