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ripplug66 wrote:
No idea what Gilbert has to do with this but that's ok. As for Geary why are we comparing him to any hawthorn player? If anyone thinks we are winning a flag by 2018 then they need help. We may not make a GF for 3, 10 or 20 years but Geary wont be the reason. Gear is signed until 2018. By then he may or may not need replacing. As for TTT I cant see why he mentioned Lockett when we are talking about a GOP. Don't see the similarities at all.
The conversation was about disposal and defenders and the comparison with hawthorn players because they are the benchmark.
If you look above Gilbert was mentioned as was hawthorn - and not by me. Can you not read?
The bottom line? We cant win a flag with players with poor disposal.
Everyone knows this - including the club which is is why we are giving weight to good disposal in our recruitment.
ripplug66 wrote:
No idea what Gilbert has to do with this but that's ok. As for Geary why are we comparing him to any hawthorn player? If anyone thinks we are winning a flag by 2018 then they need help. We may not make a GF for 3, 10 or 20 years but Geary wont be the reason. Gear is signed until 2018. By then he may or may not need replacing. As for TTT I cant see why he mentioned Lockett when we are talking about a GOP. Don't see the similarities at all.
Can you not read? The conversation was about defenders and disposal.
Hawthorn were mentioned above - as was Gilbert - neither by me. Hawthorn are the benchmark - hence a natural place to make comparisons.
The fact is we cant win a flag with players with poor disposal. Everyone knows this and the club is recruiting kids with good disposal because it knows this.
What are you are arguing against exactly ? Nothing I have said is controversial.
2015 - Sam Gilbert - 11 games (mostly against weak opposition) - DE 65%
2015 - Grant Birchall - 22 games (including finals against better teams/more pressure) - DE 85%
Noone expects us to win a flag in 2018 - but if we cant make the bottom of the 8 in 2018 we are stuffed. If Geary & Gilbert are still getting a game in 2018 - we are stuffed.
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Thu 10 Dec 2015 11:12pm, edited 4 times in total.
My take on Geary is this: I want to see him get under pressure for his spot over the next few years. That would show our development environment and recruiting is working. If he cant' show that he is a weapon for the team then he may get pushed out.
However premierships are usually won with a good spread of ages - from upstart energetic youth to a-grade players in their prime to wise old heads who won't panic on grand final day. You need all those facets. I see it as a production line with us having a first shot at a flag with Armitage, Steven and maybe Geary,(and maybe even Gilbert) as our wise old heads. Then when Geary, or whoever falls of the perch or get pushed out of the team we have Billings, Dunstan, McCArtin, Acres, Goddard, Lonie, Sinclair, Webster all coming into their prime with Bruce, Carlisle, Newnes as our next wise heads and (if our recruiting and development stays good) we have a good batch of youth coming in to provide quality at the bottom end for another sustained flag tilt
Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney have shown a model of sustained high ladder finishes over an extended period of time leads to multiple premierships. Its not just about getting a "flag winning" team together for one or two shots. Thats old school thinking. You've got to keep getting in the top four, continually get yourself to that last day in September and mathematics says you will win a flag, or two, or three. A spread of ages and experience is essential to that.
I do think Geary has to keep developing his game. I copped s*** last year for daring to suggest Geary needs to take his game up a notch, try to flatten out his kicking and be more impactful in games. We have a good development environment including coaches focusing on skills and disposal technique . There isn't any reason Geary can't take advantage of that and try some modifications to his game to stay relevant. No one has an automatic hold on any position in the team anymore. The good recruiting has seen to that. Jesus even Rooey may find himself under pressure the next couple of years. Thats exactly what we want. A fiercely competitive environment for first team spots where only the strongest, and most dangerous, survive.
Bluthy wrote:I copped s*** last year for daring to suggest Geary needs to take his game up a notch, try to flatten out his kicking
He's 27, he's not a poor kick from bad coaching or not enough practice, but it's an awesome concept that you can just choose to "flatten out" your kicking.
I'm not a great fan of Geary but he deserves a spot on the list given the current strength of the list . We are not premiership material whilst he is in our best 22. Good luck to him though, he has made the most of his abilities.
Life is never more fun than when you're the underdog competing against the giants.
Zed wrote:I'm not a great fan of Geary but he deserves a spot on the list given the current strength of the list . We are not premiership material whilst he is in our best 22. Good luck to him though, he has made the most of his abilities.
Yep. I actually admire him a lot. He came from a long way back - 58 in the Rookie draft and has since built some himself an excellent prolonged AFL career based mainly on outstanding endurance and exceptional courage (how many times has he run back in front of packs?). But that doesnt mean he needs a 3 year contract. 2 years was enough and if his Manager was playing hard-ball (3 years or walking as a FA next year) we shouldnt have rolled over.
I do take umbrage with some of the more ridiculous posters who reckon all our players are AFL 'guns' which tends to contradict the evidence of the last three years actual results. If Gilbert has DE of 65% and Grant Birchall has DE of 85% then it is not logically possible that Gilbert can be considered a 'gun' AFL player. Yet I keep reading it on here. This is Saints 80s culture where the fans are happy to finish last and worship the players anyway. Too much back slapping and idolising.
Are we just embracing mediocrity?
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Fri 11 Dec 2015 12:05am, edited 5 times in total.
Bluthy wrote:I copped s*** last year for daring to suggest Geary needs to take his game up a notch, try to flatten out his kicking
He's 27, he's not a poor kick from bad coaching or not enough practice, but it's an awesome concept that you can just choose to "flatten out" your kicking.
Kicking is a physical skill like anything else. I've just started playing guitar at 30 and I'm getting alright. Your defeatist, "don't even try to get better" attitude wouldn't be appreciated at the best clubs. A High performance approach leaves no stone unturned, and doesn't take a pessimistic approach. If you can improve 0.5% that might be the difference between a drawn grand final and a 1 point win. Or do you think all physical skills is down to some sort of unchangeable magic?
Bluthy wrote:I copped s*** last year for daring to suggest Geary needs to take his game up a notch, try to flatten out his kicking
He's 27, he's not a poor kick from bad coaching or not enough practice, but it's an awesome concept that you can just choose to "flatten out" your kicking.
Kicking is a physical skill like anything else. I've just started playing guitar at 30 and I'm getting alright. Your defeatist, "don't even try to get better" attitude wouldn't be appreciated at the best clubs. A High performance approach leaves no stone unturned, and doesn't take a pessimistic approach. If you can improve 0.5% that might be the difference between a drawn grand final and a 1 point win. Or do you think all physical skills is down to some sort of unchangeable magic?
If only he'd flatten it out... You should email the club.
I think we have gone off topic.
Everyone agrees Geary is best 22 and most likely top 10.
What is at issue is whether we needed to sign him until the end of 2018. The length of contract seems excessive imo.
I would have said two years @$450k take it or leave it.
ripplug66 wrote:
No idea what Gilbert has to do with this but that's ok. As for Geary why are we comparing him to any hawthorn player? If anyone thinks we are winning a flag by 2018 then they need help. We may not make a GF for 3, 10 or 20 years but Geary wont be the reason. Gear is signed until 2018. By then he may or may not need replacing. As for TTT I cant see why he mentioned Lockett when we are talking about a GOP. Don't see the similarities at all.
Can you not read? The conversation was about defenders and disposal.
Hawthorn were mentioned above - as was Gilbert - neither by me. Hawthorn are the benchmark - hence a natural place to make comparisons.
The fact is we cant win a flag with players with poor disposal. Everyone knows this and the club is recruiting kids with good disposal because it knows this.
What are you are arguing against exactly ? Nothing I have said is controversial.
2015 - Sam Gilbert - 11 games (mostly against weak opposition) - DE 65%
2015 - Grant Birchall - 22 games (including finals against better teams/more pressure) - DE 85%
Noone expects us to win a flag in 2018 - but if we cant make the bottom of the 8 in 2018 we are stuffed. If Geary & Gilbert are still getting a game in 2018 - we are stuffed.
The conversation I responded to was about Geary. And I pointed out using Hodge as an example is plainly sill just as using Birchill is. We wont be in the premiership window until after 2018 so it matters little he has been signed up to then. Also using KE to decide a players worth is again ridiculous. If I could be bothered I could find many onballers who kicked better than Lenny. That doesn't make them better. There is more to the game than KE. If Geary and Gilbert, still don't understand why he is in the conversation, had no other skills we wouldn't be arguing because they wouldn't be in the side. Don't worry Geary and again Gilbert will eventually be out of the side but so will good kicks like Murdoch. They will just have a longer career than Murdoch most likely. And you said Matt Suckling and Geary were about level and he played in a winning GF side so the Hawks wertent stuffed but if Geary are getting a game in 2018? Doesn't make any sense. By the was Geary has finished around 5th in the last few B&F. If he is the 20th best player in 2019 I would suggest we have improved greatly. If people don't think GOPS play in winning GF then they don't understand the game. Some are hidden by stars around them.
Zed wrote:I'm not a great fan of Geary but he deserves a spot on the list given the current strength of the list . We are not premiership material whilst he is in our best 22. Good luck to him though, he has made the most of his abilities.
Yep. I actually admire him a lot. He came from a long way back - 58 in the Rookie draft and has since built some himself an excellent prolonged AFL career based mainly on outstanding endurance and exceptional courage (how many times has he run back in front of packs?). But that doesnt mean he needs a 3 year contract. 2 years was enough and if his Manager was playing hard-ball (3 years or walking as a FA next year) we shouldnt have rolled over.
I do take umbrage with some of the more ridiculous posters who reckon all our players are AFL 'guns' which tends to contradict the evidence of the last three years actual results. If Gilbert has DE of 65% and Grant Birchall has DE of 85% then it is not logically possible that Gilbert can be considered a 'gun' AFL player. Yet I keep reading it on here. This is Saints 80s culture where the fans are happy to finish last and worship the players anyway. Too much back slapping and idolising.
Are we just embracing mediocrity?
Name one poster who thinks all out players are guns? Without being rude Con you seem to be the one who wants to be the first to claim a new player as a star. There are many examples of that and even you would agree with that. You cant have it both ways. I think every poster on here knows we are well short of a GF side. I still think maybe 6 to 8 players even with the recruits lately because about 50% of them wont make it. And I wont bother again with saying there is more to footy than KE and also comparing a 2 time AA to a non AA is a little silly. Suckling kicks it well but he is no star. The Hawks didn't give a stuff about losing him and I reckon he will be a very ordinary player at the WB without the stars around him.
BigMart wrote:Selfless and fearless. Stoked for my mate 'gears' on signing a new deal. Look forward to him continuing to show me the ropes #jg
12:05 PM - 9 Dec 20
I know you hate giving attribution but it might be easier to interpret that if you told us who said it.
BigMart wrote:Selfless and fearless. Stoked for my mate 'gears' on signing a new deal. Look forward to him continuing to show me the ropes #jg
12:05 PM - 9 Dec 20
I know you hate giving attribution but it might be easier to interpret that if you told us who said it.
Zed wrote:I'm not a great fan of Geary but he deserves a spot on the list given the current strength of the list . We are not premiership material whilst he is in our best 22. Good luck to him though, he has made the most of his abilities.
Yep. I actually admire him a lot. He came from a long way back - 58 in the Rookie draft and has since built some himself an excellent prolonged AFL career based mainly on outstanding endurance and exceptional courage (how many times has he run back in front of packs?). But that doesnt mean he needs a 3 year contract. 2 years was enough and if his Manager was playing hard-ball (3 years or walking as a FA next year) we shouldnt have rolled over.
I do take umbrage with some of the more ridiculous posters who reckon all our players are AFL 'guns' which tends to contradict the evidence of the last three years actual results. If Gilbert has DE of 65% and Grant Birchall has DE of 85% then it is not logically possible that Gilbert can be considered a 'gun' AFL player. Yet I keep reading it on here. This is Saints 80s culture where the fans are happy to finish last and worship the players anyway. Too much back slapping and idolising.
Are we just embracing mediocrity?
Name one poster who thinks all out players are guns? Without being rude Con you seem to be the one who wants to be the first to claim a new player as a star. There are many examples of that and even you would agree with that. You cant have it both ways. I think every poster on here knows we are well short of a GF side. I still think maybe 6 to 8 players even with the recruits lately because about 50% of them wont make it. And I wont bother again with saying there is more to footy than KE and also comparing a 2 time AA to a non AA is a little silly. Suckling kicks it well but he is no star. The Hawks didn't give a stuff about losing him and I reckon he will be a very ordinary player at the WB without the stars around him.
But why 3 years? That is the question. Why not two? You are normally an advocate against unnecessarily long contracts.
And I make no apologies for getting excited about kids. When a club has only one flag in 120 years then the main commodity they are selling is hope. Hope is the nourishment and I am buying it. Hope of a better future. Without that what we have got? Not a lot.
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Fri 11 Dec 2015 10:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
If I remember correctly, Geary's kicking wasn't so bad when he first had a few games in the one's............... then he suffered that horrific broken leg (supporters have short memories & forget that). Think he nearly had a whole season missing because of that break. When he gained senior selection after the time he missed, he seemed somewhat tentative with his kicking - maybe because of the way the break/bone (??) healed. He may have some physical issue with his kicking that's not easily rectified, I don't know ofcourse...just musing. It took him some time to get his pace back after that break. Plus he missed further weeks with injuries to that leg.
One sure can't doubt his courage............ the image of him fearlessly running off the field in pain cradling his badly broken elbow as quickly as he could to allow an interchange to happen, shows what a team man he is. I'm sure he inspires and leads many players with his work ethic, courage & commitment.
I just hate having to spell things out and undermine/insult people's intelligence. I don't think anything I write is cryptic, and most know exactly what or who I'm referring to... The others, well if they are that dim... Any discussion with them is moot anyway.
At the end of the day, it's a frivolous criticism when clutching at straws...
I just hate having to spell things out and undermine/insult people's intelligence. I don't think anything I write is cryptic, and most know exactly what or who I'm referring to... The others, well if they are that dim... Any discussion with them is moot anyway.
At the end of the day, it's a frivolous criticism when clutching at straws...
As someone suggested... Not sure how they were able to do so but???
Well can you explain how anyone could possibly know from your post? How hard is it to mention names. I cant think of one reason why anyone wouldn't. Well I can but I may get a warning for my thoughts.
Bluthy wrote:I copped s*** last year for daring to suggest Geary needs to take his game up a notch, try to flatten out his kicking
He's 27, he's not a poor kick from bad coaching or not enough practice, but it's an awesome concept that you can just choose to "flatten out" your kicking.
Kicking is a physical skill like anything else. I've just started playing guitar at 30 and I'm getting alright. Your defeatist, "don't even try to get better" attitude wouldn't be appreciated at the best clubs. A High performance approach leaves no stone unturned, and doesn't take a pessimistic approach. If you can improve 0.5% that might be the difference between a drawn grand final and a 1 point win. Or do you think all physical skills is down to some sort of unchangeable magic?
If only he'd flatten it out... You should email the club.
We should have a jam sometime, what's your genre?
I've sent a telegram - "Geary should flatten kicking stop s*** kicks stop Turnovers stop at least good stop(er)"
I'm all over the shop. Love Beatles and Stones. Love blues. Love buddy Holly. Love any three chord song really. I'm kind of the Geary of the guitar - I try hard but really I'm totally bombing it.
Zed wrote:I'm not a great fan of Geary but he deserves a spot on the list given the current strength of the list . We are not premiership material whilst he is in our best 22. Good luck to him though, he has made the most of his abilities.
Yep. I actually admire him a lot. He came from a long way back - 58 in the Rookie draft and has since built some himself an excellent prolonged AFL career based mainly on outstanding endurance and exceptional courage (how many times has he run back in front of packs?). But that doesnt mean he needs a 3 year contract. 2 years was enough and if his Manager was playing hard-ball (3 years or walking as a FA next year) we shouldnt have rolled over.
I do take umbrage with some of the more ridiculous posters who reckon all our players are AFL 'guns' which tends to contradict the evidence of the last three years actual results. If Gilbert has DE of 65% and Grant Birchall has DE of 85% then it is not logically possible that Gilbert can be considered a 'gun' AFL player. Yet I keep reading it on here. This is Saints 80s culture where the fans are happy to finish last and worship the players anyway. Too much back slapping and idolising.
Are we just embracing mediocrity?
Name one poster who thinks all out players are guns? Without being rude Con you seem to be the one who wants to be the first to claim a new player as a star. There are many examples of that and even you would agree with that. You cant have it both ways. I think every poster on here knows we are well short of a GF side. I still think maybe 6 to 8 players even with the recruits lately because about 50% of them wont make it. And I wont bother again with saying there is more to footy than KE and also comparing a 2 time AA to a non AA is a little silly. Suckling kicks it well but he is no star. The Hawks didn't give a stuff about losing him and I reckon he will be a very ordinary player at the WB without the stars around him.
But why 3 years? That is the question. Why not two? You are normally an advocate against unnecessarily long contracts.
And I make no apologies for getting excited about kids. When a club has only one flag in 120 years then the main commodity they are selling is hope. Hope is the nourishment and I am buying it. Hope of a better future. Without that what we have got? Not a lot.
Fair enough on your 3 years thoughts but I suppose the club still think he be easily in our best 22 then so why not. He may or may not be but every single flag winning side has gops so you can win a flag with a player of Geary's ability in it. You cant if he is still in our best 5 players. he wont be by then, well he better not be, so I not to worried about him playing. And its fine you hope but you that then say some people think all our players are guns. No one would think that or if they do they are delusional.
