Tony 74, What's up with Billings?

[Bunk_Moreland]

My argument was built around supporting a fellow poster (Devilhead) who had bothered to look beyond simplistic, archaic, suburban football based 'expertise', to suggest a 20 y.o. was on a reasonable path (as has been acknowledged by all his coaches, and his team mates).

So well put. The myopia of some looking at elite football through the prism of their own limited and average experience and ability is exposed for all to see in this one sentence.

Brilliantly worded ToT.

[devil saint]

My argument was built around supporting a fellow poster (Devilhead) who had bothered to look beyond simplistic, archaic, suburban football based 'expertise', to suggest a 20 y.o. was on a reasonable path (as has been acknowledged by all his coaches, and his team mates).

So well put. The myopia of some looking at elite football through the prism of their own limited and average experience and ability is exposed for all to see in this one sentence.

Brilliantly worded ToT.

Brilliantly put by you too, BM.

[Johnny Member]

There's a some big flaws in Billings' game.

That's not to say he is no good, and won't get better.

But he needs to improve if he's going to be an A-grader.

Can you please elaborate on these "big flaws". I haven't noticed anything particularly significant. In fact, I feel that he reads the play noticeably better than most, he (usually) directs his kick to the right teammate with great accuracy and generally makes good choices around the packs. All players need to continue to improve but I think to say he has "big flaws" is overstated and unfair.

He's not fast.

His intensity isn't great.

Not hard at the contest.

His kicking is average.

And of course, his body isn't holding up thus far.

Crikey. Another young bloke not yet 21 with less then 40 games under his belt having his commitment, skill and intensity questioned. Billing's kicking is awesome. Quality finisher. He's playing in a comp against mature hard bodied blokes. Give him another couple of years and then see where he's at. Am very pleased with the way he's tracking. Reckon he's a beauty.

I think it's reasonable to question parts of a top 3 draft pick's game in their 3rd season.

It's not reasonable to write them off, but it is certainly reasonable to ask the question of them.


You're right though, the 40-50 game mark is probably where the questions can really be asked.

[WellardSaint]

There's a some big flaws in Billings' game.

That's not to say he is no good, and won't get better.

But he needs to improve if he's going to be an A-grader.

Can you please elaborate on these "big flaws". I haven't noticed anything particularly significant. In fact, I feel that he reads the play noticeably better than most, he (usually) directs his kick to the right teammate with great accuracy and generally makes good choices around the packs. All players need to continue to improve but I think to say he has "big flaws" is overstated and unfair.

He's not fast.

His intensity isn't great.

Not hard at the contest.

His kicking is average.

And of course, his body isn't holding up thus far.

Crikey. Another young bloke not yet 21 with less then 40 games under his belt having his commitment, skill and intensity questioned. Billing's kicking is awesome. Quality finisher. He's playing in a comp against mature hard bodied blokes. Give him another couple of years and then see where he's at. Am very pleased with the way he's tracking. Reckon he's a beauty.

I think it's reasonable to question parts of a top 3 draft pick's game in their 3rd season.

It's not reasonable to write them off, but it is certainly reasonable to ask the question of them.


You're right though, the 40-50 game mark is probably where the questions can really be asked.

Tony74 said JB is working through challenges.
Maybe hard tags and extra pressure because he is talented.
Even Armo and Steven get squeezed often and have lower output due to close checking.
Billings still learning.
I would say hard bodies like Dunstan would have the job of blocking and shepherding so JB and Steven get a clean run.

[magnifisaint]

Maybe he has issues at home. Maybe he's fighting with his girlfriend. Who knows what's up and who are we to question his commitment. He may not dominate each week but let's wait until the end of the season before we judge him.

[st.byron]

Tony74 said JB is working through challenges.
Maybe hard tags and extra pressure because he is talented.
Even Armo and Steven get squeezed often and have lower output due to close checking.
Billings still learning.
I would say hard bodies like Dunstan would have the job of blocking and shepherding so JB and Steven get a clean run.

Yep, working through challenges. Whatever they are, to be expected that a young guy with 35 games is still learning and finding his way. People are so impatient. If young fellas aren't instant full blown stars they get slighted with suggestions such as they're not hard at it, instead of seeing where they're developing and doing things well.
I reckon we have a very good crop of young guys developing their games and in a couple of years the fruits of that development will be evident.

Agree with you WS re Dunstan. He was taken in the same draft as Billings and is already doing a tough, physical job against older guys with more years in the system. No surprise to me that he may be a little inconsistent at this stage, but Dunstan is an absolute beauty and will be an elite inside extractor.

[tony74]

Stop looking for problems! The coaching staff are presenting on field challenges to Jack so he is of more value to the team in the future. It's 20% about now and 80% for the future. We ain't winning a flag this year.
Jack is fine.

[BigMart]

I hope they are not trying to turn him too inside or too defensively minded... He'd be good at that, but it would go against his strengths...

Judd was still great at Carlton... But his massive inside ability never was as potent as his WCE run and carry

Billings needs to be able to win his own footy .. But I like his in space more so...

[8856brother]

Stop looking for problems! The coaching staff are presenting on field challenges to Jack so he is of more value to the team in the future. It's 20% about now and 80% for the future. We ain't winning a flag this year.
Jack is fine.

Be great if they could spend 5% on his goal kicking. It's affecting his confidence imo. His field kicking has been much better this year though.

[stonecold]

Kankles?????

[WellardSaint]

Stop looking for problems! The coaching staff are presenting on field challenges to Jack so he is of more value to the team in the future. It's 20% about now and 80% for the future. We ain't winning a flag this year.
Jack is fine.

I think some folks want Jack to be Wingard/Wines/Ablett all rolled into one neat little package.
Impatient.
Enjoy the journey, folks, it's just begun.
The JB train is all First Class coaches, no Economy Class; we need to pass thru every station on the way

[Con Gorozidis]

If I was to write down a list of the Saints problems it would be a long list but Jack Billings name would not be on that list.

[BigMart]

I just want him to lift his intensity... Never suggested he can't play... In fact the opposite. I and almost every Saints supporter would think he has serious talent... Although it is obvious (even to the local suburban footballers eye) that he's in a lull. He's been not good or bad this year, and his last month pretty average...

Although, joffaboy would have you believe he was called a fat diebetic - btw nice little character assassination there old mate - it helps your argument to attack the others person

BTW
What was your expertise again... That's right, you're a paid up member and you are a lord of Saintasational... I should bow down.
And you have no clue who I am, what I have done or where my involvement in the game starts or ends...

[The OtherThommo]

There's a some big flaws in Billings' game.

That's not to say he is no good, and won't get better.

But he needs to improve if he's going to be an A-grader.

Can you please elaborate on these "big flaws". I haven't noticed anything particularly significant. In fact, I feel that he reads the play noticeably better than most, he (usually) directs his kick to the right teammate with great accuracy and generally makes good choices around the packs. All players need to continue to improve but I think to say he has "big flaws" is overstated and unfair.

He's not fast.

His intensity isn't great.

Not hard at the contest.

His kicking is average.

And of course, his body isn't holding up thus far.

Crikey. Another young bloke not yet 21 with less then 40 games under his belt having his commitment, skill and intensity questioned. Billing's kicking is awesome. Quality finisher. He's playing in a comp against mature hard bodied blokes. Give him another couple of years and then see where he's at. Am very pleased with the way he's tracking. Reckon he's a beauty.

I think it's reasonable to question parts of a top 3 draft pick's game in their 3rd season.

It's not reasonable to write them off, but it is certainly reasonable to ask the question of them.


You're right though, the 40-50 game mark is probably where the questions can really be asked.

Of course it's reasonable to question, JM. What's not reasonable is to ignore the available evidence.

So, one by one:

- He's quicker than he looks - long strider, dontcha know - how often does he get caught, and you do not get those tackle numbers if ya can't get there.
- Intensity - see above.
- Hard at the contest - see above - numbers might be interpretable, but they don't outright lie.
- His kicking numbers aren't top notch, yet, but there are hints - No 1 in goal assists is one, and when asked to cover more ground vs the Pies, he both hit almost every target, and kicked 2 very important goals from 50 (which, almost every watching supporter knew he would kick, because, well, they knew).

As far as his body goes, it wasn't holding up when he was 17 - he hardly trained in his last year at the Chargers, because of bursitis.

So, being a half glass full type, when I see real ability staring at me, I tend to the "Sheeit, how good will he be when they do get his body right".

I maintain he will be in the best 5 players in the competition by the time he's 25.

And, I ain't wrong yet.

[The OtherThommo]

There's a some big flaws in Billings' game.

That's not to say he is no good, and won't get better.

But he needs to improve if he's going to be an A-grader.

Can you please elaborate on these "big flaws". I haven't noticed anything particularly significant. In fact, I feel that he reads the play noticeably better than most, he (usually) directs his kick to the right teammate with great accuracy and generally makes good choices around the packs. All players need to continue to improve but I think to say he has "big flaws" is overstated and unfair.

He's not fast.

His intensity isn't great.

Not hard at the contest.

His kicking is average.

And of course, his body isn't holding up thus far.

Crikey. Another young bloke not yet 21 with less then 40 games under his belt having his commitment, skill and intensity questioned. Billing's kicking is awesome. Quality finisher. He's playing in a comp against mature hard bodied blokes. Give him another couple of years and then see where he's at. Am very pleased with the way he's tracking. Reckon he's a beauty.

I think it's reasonable to question parts of a top 3 draft pick's game in their 3rd season.

It's not reasonable to write them off, but it is certainly reasonable to ask the question of them.


You're right though, the 40-50 game mark is probably where the questions can really be asked.

Tony74 said JB is working through challenges.
Maybe hard tags and extra pressure because he is talented.
Even Armo and Steven get squeezed often and have lower output due to close checking.
Billings still learning.
I would say hard bodies like Dunstan would have the job of blocking and shepherding so JB and Steven get a clean run.

And, generally speaking, the most and toughest challenges are presented to the most talented. Not much point offering major challenges to those who struggle (without wishing to labor on the bleeding obvious).

[The OtherThommo]

Stop looking for problems! The coaching staff are presenting on field challenges to Jack so he is of more value to the team in the future. It's 20% about now and 80% for the future. We ain't winning a flag this year.
Jack is fine.

Tick.

[The OtherThommo]

TOThommo no Wasn't directed at you

Perhaps ask the question first?

Not sure whether or care whether you're arrogant... Although not a trait to spruke about methinks? ... Not sure I'm a sook either. I just don't support blindly... Some do, that's ok?

Exactly what do I sook about...

I know every time I criticise another poor decision/result/outcome by the club... Which is basically tragic in its history of stuff ups
People go crazy, like I've slapped one of their children in the face... I find that interesting?!

Damn, there I was thinking the arrogance had finally been recognised.

Worth noting my contingent last content in that earlier contribtuion - "apols" etc. Didn't need to 'ask the question first', 'cos I covered the possibility late.

Arrogance of the truly and righteously arrogant doesn't require spruiking......unless the righteousness is doubted - then it's on for young and old.

Sooking can be hard to explain, but I know it when I see it.

And, I'm no fan of fanbois (or goils) - the handle says so. I didn't pick "Other" because I was prone to blind acceptance of the party line. I also never became wrapped up in the idea of Lyon as the coach to beat all others.

About the only time my skepticism was ever under challenge was when I spent a couple of hours talking to Darrell and Margaret Baldock, one night after he'd coached a game. Twas downstairs in the social club, and that was 2 of the most enlightening hours of my life. I'd always held the man in the greatest esteem, but that 2 hours took me well beyond. Extraordinary man, and he's my measuring stick since - and they all fall short in comparison. I don't disregard others using impossible criteria, but Doc was really something else - smart, worldly, confident (but never cocky), empathetic, wise, broad, open, calm, witty - a gem of a man. As for Margaret, well, my cap is forever doffed.

It was endlessly entertaining to watch people piss in Doc's pocket, and how he always tended to engage more with those who didn't try to fill up his pockets. He taught lessons without even trying - forever an island of decency in a sea of grasping wannabees (hello Sam Newman - oh, how you grasped, every time Doc was about. What a pity his essence never rubbed off).

[saintspremiers]

Stop looking for problems! The coaching staff are presenting on field challenges to Jack so he is of more value to the team in the future. It's 20% about now and 80% for the future. We ain't winning a flag this year.
Jack is fine.

Tick.

Sorry I can't give it a tick as well.

I'm devistated to read we have already internally ruled out a premiership this year.