Goodbye Mr Chips?

[Con Gorozidis]

Con Carlton had no tall forwards - see how we go against Geelong?

They had four fwds 190cm or over:

Gorringe 200cm
Casboult 199cm
Everitt 194cm
Walker 190cm

None of them were influential because our team defence gave them all a bath.

In any case, even if we want Dempster and Fisher to play for all eternity, the odds are that their bodies wont hold up anyway. So whether we like it or not we need to adjust to life without them.

[The Fireman]

Fisher and Dempster for as long as possible.

Don't forget Gilbo as well!

Let's just keep replaying those lost Grand Finals of 2009/10 and hoping somehow there is a rip in the time-space-continuum and we can go back in time and win one. Best to be prepared.

Hopefully Bakes and Schneids come back next year as well and stay in the side just in case that rip actually happens. They are still keeping fit according to my sources. Grammy is also fresh as a daisy and rearing to go.

I raise a glass to the firemen. The truest of the true. The most loyal saint in the heavens. The trumpeters herald and salute you. The angels sing your tune. A latin phrase encircles your name:

Fortius Quo Fidelius. Fireman. Fortius Quo Fidelius.

oh ok..you want them gone asap so we can start losing for picks...cool now I get where you are coming from..I just thought you were stupid

[Bluthy]

Wow this is a scary thread! If both Fisher & Dempster retire who fills the other tall defender role?

We will finally have Carlisle, but Goddard will be out for half the year, Roberton aka skittle cant play a key defensive role, Delaney will be delisted, what do we throw Coughlan in there.

Even if we were to recruit another ready made tall defender I would like to keep them both around for another year just to give Goddard etc time to develop.

"Kickstart my career, give it a start" - Tommy Lee. Developed well last year as a defender in the VFL and didn't look out of place in his 3 senior games this year
Nikki Six...sorry Niccy Coughlan has already show a bit and has been playing VFL for a while
Delaney will probably stay on the list as a backup to play on the gorrilla forwards
Roberton needs to stack on a bit more weight, but I haven't written him off playing as a third tall as he's 194
Brandon White is 188cm and would be a good Dempster replacement and looks damn promosing to my humble eyes
Gilbert can provide cover with his go-go gadget arms
Carlisle obvs gives us the height
Acres is 191cm, good in the air and I think is suited to a B Goddard type sweeper as I think he reads the play well
Wouldn't be surprised if we draft or trade in another young key defender to groom

So we have plenty of options. Our backline may be a bit of Motley Crew next year but sometimes they can make the sweetest music and wouldn't necessarily play like "Girls, Girls, Girls" (although that may a be a good thing with the female footy players now being professionals)

[Bluthy]

Fisher and Dempster for as long as possible.

Don't forget Gilbo as well!

Let's just keep replaying those lost Grand Finals of 2009/10 and hoping somehow there is a rip in the time-space-continuum and we can go back in time and win one. Best to be prepared.

Hopefully Bakes and Schneids come back next year as well and stay in the side just in case that rip actually happens. They are still keeping fit according to my sources. Grammy is also fresh as a daisy and rearing to go.

I raise a glass to the firemen. The truest of the true. The most loyal saint in the heavens. The trumpeters herald and salute you. The angels sing your tune. A latin phrase encircles your name:

Fortius Quo Fidelius. Fireman. Fortius Quo Fidelius.

oh ok..you want them gone asap so we can start losing for picks...cool now I get where you are coming from..I just thought you were stupid

You're the one who makes comments about "Picks" whenever we are getting beaten. You have a terrible defeatist attitude. Wouldn't want to be in the trenches with you.

[The Fireman]

Fisher and Dempster for as long as possible.

Don't forget Gilbo as well!

Let's just keep replaying those lost Grand Finals of 2009/10 and hoping somehow there is a rip in the time-space-continuum and we can go back in time and win one. Best to be prepared.

Hopefully Bakes and Schneids come back next year as well and stay in the side just in case that rip actually happens. They are still keeping fit according to my sources. Grammy is also fresh as a daisy and rearing to go.

I raise a glass to the firemen. The truest of the true. The most loyal saint in the heavens. The trumpeters herald and salute you. The angels sing your tune. A latin phrase encircles your name:

Fortius Quo Fidelius. Fireman. Fortius Quo Fidelius.

oh ok..you want them gone asap so we can start losing for picks...cool now I get where you are coming from..I just thought you were stupid

You're the one who makes comments about "Picks" whenever we are getting beaten. You have a terrible defeatist attitude. Wouldn't want to be in the trenches with you.

of course..Con is on the same page...but a weak individual like you would never be in the trenches..

[st.byron]

Fireman, Bluthy. Enough already. Give it a rest.

[skeptic]

I think one needs to go.

For me personally, I want to see Carlisle, Delaney, Lee and those rookies ppl brag about: NOK? Etc. get more games into them. And IMO players need to play to develop.
I really like Dempster, but I think he's the more easily replaced of the two

[degruch]

Quick question for the Logan's Run fans on here...who are Chips and Dempster holding back at the moment?

As noted on various threads, Lonie has suffered a little bit this year from being dropped in it pretty quickly after Schneider's departure...works for the backline too.

[Bluthy]

Fireman, Bluthy. Enough already. Give it a rest.

There can be no peach Byron. It has become trench warfare. God have mercy on all of us.

[To the top]

I know.

Ask Dawson if he wants to come back!

Fisher is still a class footballer who positions himself exceptionally well - including taking fantastic saving marks.

His experience is absolutely vital - as the results in Perth and Adelaide show when he was missing and we had class attacking KPP's against us (unlike Carlton which is an ordinary side).

And across the 2 years he missed with injury.

Dempster does what Dempster does - and this season has been forced to defend against KPP's which he has been very effective in doing.

We are talking about AA footballers (Fisher x 2 Dempster x 1)

They do not grow on trees.

Whilst they continue to perform as they are they should be utilised.

Our other KPP defenders are Carlisle (Suspended) Goddard (injured), Delaney and Lee.

The mention of anyone else as replacing Fisher or Dempster is a nonsense of the first order.

Quite frankly, the player where options exist (at least in names) is Geary.

The reputations attached to the likes of Coghlan, Mc Kenzie et al on here are wide of anything I have seen to date (including at VFL level last week where they were ordinary).

They have a long, long way to go - if they make it at all.

We need these mentioned replacements playing and dominating VFL games, showing that they are AFL players playing in the VFL.

Sydney and Hawthorn have been very good in giving players such groundings before introducing them to AFL football.

[desertsaint]

two champions of the club. AAs. most importantly still the beat two defenders. We put our best team on the park - that'll include them until they are no longer the best in their position. why would we think any other way?

[saintbob]

Dempster and Fisher will only go if they retire, otherwise the club will want them both to go around next year as there is no one forcing them out of the best 22.


Montagna on the other hand could be forced out, as Webster and or Savage could easily play his position.

There are also players like Murdoch, McKenzie, Rice, NOK and White who can then get their chance to cement a spot on the HBF.

[st.byron]

Fireman, Bluthy. Enough already. Give it a rest.

There can be no peach Byron. It has become trench warfare. God have mercy on all of us.

Nope it wont be a case of god have mercy on all of us. It will be warnings and if that doesn't work, suspensions. Please just stick to talking about footy or whatever else you want to talk about. Leave the personal commentary and sniping out of it. Thanks.

[Beno88]

Fisher, Dempster and Montagna will all be playing for St Kilda in 2017 unless they choose to retire or their bodies let them down. You'll find all three will be in the B&F top ten at the halfway mark of this season.

Goddard won't play until the latter half of 2017. Carlisle will take time to get match fit. Delaney is 50/50 to be on the list. Likewise Lee. Who fills those holes?

If you want guys like Goddard, Coughlan, etc to learn quickly, then playing and training alongside guys like Fisher and Dempster is so valuable. Membrey, Bruce and McCartin have all blossomed under the influence of Riewoldt.

Don't underestimate experience.

[Bluthy]

Quick question for the Logan's Run fans on here...who are Chips and Dempster holding back at the moment?

As noted on various threads, Lonie has suffered a little bit this year from being dropped in it pretty quickly after Schneider's departure...works for the backline too.

Heh heh Logans Run. As long as they don't become Soylent Green. The answer for me to both these situations is more rotation of our squad. Doggies played 40 players last year and its what we should be aiming for in our developmental/experimental phase. Lonie as a little guy should have been rotated out of the squad more in his first year and let guys like Minch, Curren, Shenton, Wright, get a taste of the big show for squad development and depth. That is good for squad morale and tests out our fringe guys.

I'm worried Richo is doing the exact same thing with Gresham as small guy who should have a break from the brutality of AFL with his young body. Gresh is playing a role for sure but not exactly playing out of his skin. The high pressure/tackling gameplan of Richo's is tough on young players. We don't seem to use much clever zoning to make it easier for them.

I would be ok with Demps and Fish staying on the list if they were being rotated out (and maybe that would have saved them from injury). Instead its only injuries that have opened up spots for the likes of Lee and Delaney. I think Lee should be been tried heavily this year (and even a bit last year) to see if he's got the goods to be a tall defender. As Schneids showed last year, if they keep both on the list Richo will just play them automatically each week along with Gilbo and Gears as he has in his head they are "best 22". It worries me Richo is in that mode when he should be more creative and inclusive of the whole squad.

And personally I don't see Demps in our best 22 anyway. He's solid defensively but very little attack, slow to peel off his man and doesn't have the height to help out the team defence. When we are playing Geary as a dedicated shutdown player already, it makes our defence lack the necessary counter-attacking fire power you need in modern footy.

[Bluthy]

Fireman, Bluthy. Enough already. Give it a rest.

There can be no peach Byron. It has become trench warfare. God have mercy on all of us.

Nope it wont be a case of god have mercy on all of us. It will be warnings and if that doesn't work, suspensions. Please just stick to talking about footy or whatever else you want to talk about. Leave the personal commentary and sniping out of it. Thanks.

All right, I'll go chillaxe and read my book "War and Peach"

[The Fireman]

it has me beat why some on here want to see our best defenders retire early ? To lose games ? Fisher and Dempster to play for as long as they can as far as I'm concerned. The youngens will have to earn their spots.

[bigballs]

it has me beat why some on here want to see our best defenders retire early ? To lose games ? Fisher and Dempster to play for as long as they can as far as I'm concerned. The youngens will have to earn their spots.

+1

Couldn't agree more Firey.

At the moment there isn't anyone in the two's playing consistently good football week in week out to take either of their spots in the team.

Until that happens, both continue on as far as I'm concerned.

[Johnny Member]

I don't want them stifling the development of the youth - but I just don't see it that way.

I see it as fast tracking and assisting the development of the youth.

[Con Gorozidis]

I know.

Ask Dawson if he wants to come back!

Fisher is still a class footballer who positions himself exceptionally well - including taking fantastic saving marks.

His experience is absolutely vital - as the results in Perth and Adelaide show when he was missing and we had class attacking KPP's against us (unlike Carlton which is an ordinary side).

And across the 2 years he missed with injury.

Dempster does what Dempster does - and this season has been forced to defend against KPP's which he has been very effective in doing.

We are talking about AA footballers (Fisher x 2 Dempster x 1)

They do not grow on trees.

Whilst they continue to perform as they are they should be utilised.

Our other KPP defenders are Carlisle (Suspended) Goddard (injured), Delaney and Lee.

The mention of anyone else as replacing Fisher or Dempster is a nonsense of the first order.

Quite frankly, the player where options exist (at least in names) is Geary.

The reputations attached to the likes of Coghlan, Mc Kenzie et al on here are wide of anything I have seen to date (including at VFL level last week where they were ordinary).

They have a long, long way to go - if they make it at all.

We need these mentioned replacements playing and dominating VFL games, showing that they are AFL players playing in the VFL.

Sydney and Hawthorn have been very good in giving players such groundings before introducing them to AFL football.

Carlton are the highest side we have beaten this year.

Do people really want to see a half baked Fisher running around for Sandy next year? Be careful what you wish for.

[To the top]

Some sides are sitting where they are almost exclusively because of the draw they have had - and now it gets tough for them.

On what evidence is it suggested a "half baked" Fisher will be running around for Sandringham next season?

The same evidence a "half baked" Riewoldt will be running around for Sandringham next season?

[st.byron]

Fireman, Bluthy. Enough already. Give it a rest.

There can be no peach Byron. It has become trench warfare. God have mercy on all of us.

Nope it wont be a case of god have mercy on all of us. It will be warnings and if that doesn't work, suspensions. Please just stick to talking about footy or whatever else you want to talk about. Leave the personal commentary and sniping out of it. Thanks.

All right, I'll go chillaxe and read my book "War and Peach"

The Great Orchard Massacre of '74.

[skeptic]

Quick question for the Logan's Run fans on here...who are Chips and Dempster holding back at the moment?

As noted on various threads, Lonie has suffered a little bit this year from being dropped in it pretty quickly after Schneider's departure...works for the backline too.

Interesting question.

It's a fair point in that for those 2 specific positions, the only real alternatives we have are Lee and Delaney which many on here don't rate. And obviously Carlisle which is a different story.

Maybe to some degree that's the problem...
On the one hand, the hypothesis that you need to play to be given the chance to get better and overtake the predecessor/s is not an unreasonable IMO.

If you look at the forwards for example we're playing Paddy, Bruce and Membrey in the team... But we've only been able to fit in all three because Roo goes up the ground or Bruce into the ruck.
Roo's presence may be more of an issue if a player like Pierce or Hickey was also showing that they could make it as a resting forward.

That aside though, maybe we aren't prioritising our backline as much as we should be with Fish and Demps remaining in the key posts.

[Harvey To Hayes]

No surprise from me - Dempster to retire. I don't think he is in our best 22 anymore. I was thinking Fish to retire too but with Goddard prob not due back until at least halfway through next year, then maybe another year. With Carlisle to take the number 1 forward, that frees Fish up to use his good kicking. He's one of the few players we have who I feel relaxed when he has the ball as he almost always hits a target and we keep possession.

Did Dempster steal your girlfriend or something? Your opinion of him is beyond strange. I'm more aware of his value now than ever because every time he does something good I think 'Wonder if that weirdo with the grudge from the forum is watching?'

[Con Gorozidis]

Some sides are sitting where they are almost exclusively because of the draw they have had - and now it gets tough for them.

On what evidence is it suggested a "half baked" Fisher will be running around for Sandringham next season?

The same evidence a "half baked" Riewoldt will be running around for Sandringham next season?

How many AFL players are still playing good, regular & injury free footy at 34-35?

About 0.1%. 1 in a 1000?

So there is a 99.9% chance I will be right on this one.

Nothing against Chips. I just think the odds are that his body will catch up with him in the next 12 months. And for a guy who should be remembered as one of the all time greats - why try and eek out that one extra year?

I dont think Pav has done himself any justice playing this year.

Roo has had his career extended because he doesnt need to play key position anymore. He can now play wing and not get bashed and crashed as much.