For what it's worth

[SemperFidelis]

Throwibg up of ball was due to new surface bounce after the re-lay during the week
One Jade gresham run down the Medallion side I dont think the ball bounced higher than his knees and certainly didnt come back straight -he did well to control it

Thanks bratty; I was wondering if I'd missed another rule change.

The strip of new turf on the Moorabbin wing at the Lockett end caused problems; it might have been the new trip or it might have been the completely damaged crap around it but they were skidding on it every time.

[wally]

when I read that Paddy was out I actually thought maybe Longer would replace him, giving a tall option even to feed crumbers, 2 rucks
means Bruce can just be a forward, I asked the question on another post a while ago if the 3rd man up would affect us.

I guess a few who missed may get a shot although the different ground & team may need different players also.

[scallopsroe]

If one inferior ruckmen was getting a hiding

Wouldn't adding another inferior ruckmen make little difference

Only that we would have been even slower?

You're assuming that the other ruckman being brought into the team is inferior? We have 4 good ruckman on our list, use them! When a player is getting beaten during a game the obvious tactic is to replace and/or move him. We didn't have this option against the Demons and had to stick with a proven failure and paid dearly for this failed strategy. We only had Josh Bruce to throw into this position and he is useless in the ruck. First use of the pill is vital these days and we looked slow because we were chasing the Demons midfield bums who were being given silver service by their ruckman.

[BackFromUSA]

Next time Holmes v Gawn and get Holmes to out leap him and tag him rather than try to run off him. I love Tom Hickey and he is a top 8 ruckman but he will struggle v Gawn / Mumford / Sandilands as they are just too strong.

[White Winmar]

Why didn't they try Carlisle. Couldn't have done any worse.

[SemperFidelis]

I'm sure that many of you will criticise this post and blah blah blah.....
Most of these observations were mentioned before this game, some of you may choose to believe me whilst others will say l have no idea. It was a very long and painful night for all.
1. Newnesy was the boy who did his hammy on Thursday, I can assure you he was a goner but it finished up obviously as cramp and he played. He believed he had strained it on the day.

Thanks Tony, as always.

But was Newnesy really ok? Did he he pull up ok? Because he didn't really seem himself.

I guess if it was initially cramp last night's sauna wasn't ideal.

[wolfpup]

we lost the game with terribad kicking in the 2nd quarter

dees were fantastic in the 3rd and we looked pedestrian, they smashed us and were too good

to lose by only 30 points i guess was a minor positive

[magnifisaint]

For what it's worth Tony, your excuses are becoming long in the tooth. The one about coaching is the biggest crock I've ever read.

[Bluthy]

Always love the insights Tony.

I feel reasonably relaxed about yesterday. Maybe because I wasn't as gung-ho about our list as many others constantly rubbing their hands in glee at our "depth". It could have been one of those days at the office. Maybe they got the training load wrong as we looked so flat after qtr 1 in the humid draining conditions. We looked so damn fumbly too where we couldn't move the ball quickly like we like too and gave Demons time to get to us. Interesting Sydney lost too after our tough last JLT game - maybe that threw some sort of spanner in the fitness works. We didn't have our kicking boots on and Melbourne did. One game is not a sufficient sample size to know where we are. I think we are a better team than that.

Melbourne are loaded up with talent and were always going to be a good team after getting well drilled by Roos and Lewis bringing in some Hawthorn IP. There ability to win then take it away from the clearances was Hawthornesque. It will be interesting to see if Goodwin can maintain that though without Roos there as the architect. Teams will unpack them and then Goodwin will need to evolve his team and that is a big unknown.

Tony was spot on about the third man up and how it may impact on Hickey who isn't that strong compared to others. Its becomes so much of a battle of strength now where its about pushing your opponent off balance and if you can't hold your ground you are in trouble.

The big concern for me is that run of 10 unanswered goal and Demons kicking 18 goals. On the back of the interstate smashings last year, I worry that Richo doesn't have that ability to control the field and have a complex system in place that can shut things down when the momentum is against us. The best coaches are constantly putting out fires as soon as they pop up with their system or creative on the fly moves. It's all about control. When the oppo are keeping the ball with good skill and we are just running ourselves ragged like yesterday then I don't know if we have sufficiently smart layout to bring them to a halt and then get it back off them.

Need to see how we respond next week in a really tough ask. I always said that the early results this year could dictate if we look at being more experimental this year. If we aren't racking up wins then it could be the impetus for Richo to look at more of a youth policy with cats who can actually, you know, kick a footy and be skillful and creative ie White, Rice, Goddard, Sinclair, Acres, NOK jesus even Phillips who has shown great dash.

IF this team isn't winning there aren't that many excuses as they have filled out the team with bigger bodies and experience and we aren't a super young team.

[Con Gorozidis]

I'm sure that many of you will criticise this post and blah blah blah.....
Most of these observations were mentioned before this game, some of you may choose to believe me whilst others will say l have no idea. It was a very long and painful night for all.
1. Newnesy was the boy who did his hammy on Thursday, I can assure you he was a goner but it finished up obviously as cramp and he played. He believed he had strained it on the day
2. The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
3. The third man up will not be good for us
4. It is extremely hard to coach against a new coach you have no template to base your strategies on-- and we were out coached. ( as Gold coast was )
5. The ball being thrown up, not bounced at the centre square didn't help.
6. A cliche but worth remembering-- the season is a marathon not a sprint we'll be OK

I'm being honest as I can, up to you if you want to believe me.

1. Why play an injured bloke versus a fresh Acres who is just as good as Newnes anyway. 'Tough love' is a crock.
2. So no side has ever won a game when they lose the Ruck? Novel theory.
3. Third man up rul is the same for everyone.
4. Melbourne used a tried and true strategy again us - kick wide. Our game plan only works aaginst sides that like to handball a lot. We got pulled apart last year with similar tactics so it was pretty obvious and hardly 'new'.
5. Same for everyone.
6. I dont mind losing but we were uncompetitive. Too many players who are VFL standard. The midfield trio of Armo, Ross and Dunstan is less than the some of its parts. They are too similar to one another. We are bog slow crabs in there. No spread at all. Has to be a worry.

[saynta]

I'm sure that many of you will criticise this post and blah blah blah.....
Most of these observations were mentioned before this game, some of you may choose to believe me whilst others will say l have no idea. It was a very long and painful night for all.
1. Newnesy was the boy who did his hammy on Thursday, I can assure you he was a goner but it finished up obviously as cramp and he played. He believed he had strained it on the day
2. The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
3. The third man up will not be good for us
4. It is extremely hard to coach against a new coach you have no template to base your strategies on-- and we were out coached. ( as Gold coast was )
5. The ball being thrown up, not bounced at the centre square didn't help.
6. A cliche but worth remembering-- the season is a marathon not a sprint we'll be OK

I'm being honest as I can, up to you if you want to believe me.

Thanks Tony.

Was wondering what happened to your injured player

[saint-stu]

I'm sure that many of you will criticise this post and blah blah blah.....
Most of these observations were mentioned before this game, some of you may choose to believe me whilst others will say l have no idea. It was a very long and painful night for all.
1. Newnesy was the boy who did his hammy on Thursday, I can assure you he was a goner but it finished up obviously as cramp and he played. He believed he had strained it on the day
2. The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
3. The third man up will not be good for us
4. It is extremely hard to coach against a new coach you have no template to base your strategies on-- and we were out coached. ( as Gold coast was )
5. The ball being thrown up, not bounced at the centre square didn't help.
6. A cliche but worth remembering-- the season is a marathon not a sprint we'll be OK

I'm being honest as I can, up to you if you want to believe me.

1. Why play an injured bloke versus a fresh Acres who is just as good as Newnes anyway. 'Tough love' is a crock.
2. So no side has ever won a game when they lose the Ruck? Novel theory.
3. Third man up rul is the same for everyone.
4. Melbourne used a tried and true strategy again us - kick wide. Our game plan only works aaginst sides that like to handball a lot. We got pulled apart last year with similar tactics so it was pretty obvious and hardly 'new'.
5. Same for everyone.
6. I dont mind losing but we were uncompetitive. Too many players who are VFL standard. The midfield trio of Armo, Ross and Dunstan is less than the some of its parts. They are too similar to one another. We are bog slow crabs in there. No spread at all. Has to be a worry.

Gawn is one of the top ruckman in the competition. Hickey is OK at tapping, but his strengths are everything but that. I think it's reasonable to say that the rule change and the throwing instead of bouncing the ball could have significantly disadvantaged us.

I cannot remember such an absolute trouncing in the ruck. Except maybe when Grant Thomas didn't play one.

[SAAD]

When I die I want the Saints to bury me... so they can let me down one more time.

disappointing...our disposal is awful and so were our set shots...

We have a long way to go BUT....not giving up yet...

[WellardSaint]

For what it's worth Tony, your excuses are becoming long in the tooth. The one about coaching is the biggest crock I've ever read.

Some here will yell at you for this comment.
Not me.
Agree 100%.
Get ready for Rd2 for well-worn cliches from the wonderful tony74

[dragit]

When I die I want the Saints to bury me... so they can let me down one more time.

There's a signature quote if I've ever seen one!

[Saint wagga]

I'm sure that many of you will criticise this post and blah blah blah.....
Most of these observations were mentioned before this game, some of you may choose to believe me whilst others will say l have no idea. It was a very long and painful night for all.
1. Newnesy was the boy who did his hammy on Thursday, I can assure you he was a goner but it finished up obviously as cramp and he played. He believed he had strained it on the day
2. The game will be decided with the Hick Gawn contest-- and it was.
3. The third man up will not be good for us
4. It is extremely hard to coach against a new coach you have no template to base your strategies on-- and we were out coached. ( as Gold coast was )
5. The ball being thrown up, not bounced at the centre square didn't help.
6. A cliche but worth remembering-- the season is a marathon not a sprint we'll be OK

I'm being honest as I can, up to you if you want to believe me.

My thoughts FWIW; conditioning staff need to take a massive mia culpa here, we looked very tired across the board after 1.5 qtrs and that just screams of stuffing up the taper for rd 1. If it's only a few that looked tired, poor selection/ attitude etc...if it's the whole team, it's a taper thing.

Match day coaching and ability to adapt and execute under scoreboard pressure from infield leaders was very poor and had a big influence.

J Bruce will get the best big defender every week and MacDonald is a very good defender and won this contest well.

Sandilands has dominated 'hitouts' for a decade 3rd man up or not...and if Leigh Mathews doesn't think it's the be all and end all, sorry Tony but I think I'll back the player of the centuries opinion. Our mids ability to stop the run and spread of the dees was way more telling than the 'hitout count'. Again I'm putting a big onus on the conditioning, our players were baked after 1.5 qtrs. stuffed the taper!!

Surely all these calls for mass changes and absolute carve up of our midfield as slow, one dimensional etc...its practically the same side that played run + gun and toppled the cats and demolished the doggies in the last part of 2016, when we looked fast hungry and ballistic...again...the fact that 'everyone'looked cooked and slow points to overtrained and a stuffed taper!

Speaking of the doggies...we dusted them late last year and looked irresistible, they didn't panic, they didn't implode, they backed themselves and their method and righted the ship. That's our challenge now! And hats off to the dees, the biggest win for them was psychological, because while we tired so badly after 2.5 qtrs, they still had to kick goals.

I'm still backing us to beat them in ladder position this season! Especially knowing Rooey will still play a decent part in this campaign!!

[Linton Lodger]

Geez, some of you are keyboard prima donnas, hysterical after 1 game.

Here's some context, GWS lost their first game of the year to Melbourne (11th) last year, in very similar circumstances to yesterday and went on to a Preliminary Final (should've won a Premiership but choked).

If you want to believe Melbourne are better than us (they're not) and cry about it, go ahead. The reality is that they smashed us in one quarter of football. Remember we belted them in the first, they fought back in the second and got on top (not to the point of dominance) and took the lead due to our poor kicking. With better kicking we still would've held a 2 or 3 goal lead at half time. We were then smashed in the 3rd and actually won the final quarter.

A number of things went wrong at once, including at the selection table, and we had a bad one, these things happen periodically. So are we writing off Sydney as well?

In fact after what we've done to Melbourne over the last 12 years, I suggest that they'd be seriously lacking in ticker if they didn't come out and beat us yesterday, or at least come close, it was always going to be a difficult game.

If aspects of our game come unstuck, better that happens Round 1. I thought the Swans exposed a few chinks in our last practice game and now Melbourne have. Plenty of time to sort things out.

I'm sure there will be a focus on not allowing our opponents to dictate the tempo of the game. Sydney did it in the last JLT and Melbourne did it after quarter time. Not an insurmountable issue.

We also appeared to run out of legs after quarter time, Melbourne seemed a tad fitter, you get that Round 1.

I have no doubt we will improve this year, in fact we've gone up a level, however that doesn't automatically mean we'll win more games and play finals. So what happens if that indeed does occur?

I'm concerned that our supporters go into meltdown, roll the Board, sack the Coach, bring in Robert Harvey as a messiah Coach and keep dreaming of '66. Our history is littered with such brain fades.

The sacking of Stan Alves in '98, the Blight appointment, the rolling of Butters in 07 and his replacement with the incompetent Footy First ticket, the loss of Lyon and 2 wasted years under Watters.

Tell you what, I've been a loyal member for over 30 years, but I won't be tolerating that crap again. If Richo and the current Board aren't there next year, that's the end of my support for the Club. I'm sure many sensible supporters would do the same.

Get a grip for f*cks sake.

[SaintPav]

For what it's worth Tony, your excuses are becoming long in the tooth. The one about coaching is the biggest crock I've ever read.

Some here will yell at you for this comment.
Not me.
Agree 100%.
Get ready for Rd2 for cliches from tony74, the work experience teenager from Seaford.

That's very harsh and no need to make it personal and shoot the messenger.

It's not Tony's fault the way we played.

Do you want him to stop giving us updates and inside info?

Pull your head in.

[WellardSaint]

For what it's worth Tony, your excuses are becoming long in the tooth. The one about coaching is the biggest crock I've ever read.

Some here will yell at you for this comment.
Not me.
Agree 100%.
Get ready for Rd2 for cliches from tony74, the work experience teenager from Seaford.

That's very harsh and no need to make it personal and shoot the messenger.

It's not Tony's fault the way we played.

Do you want him to stop giving us updates and inside info?

Pull your head in.

Ask this person why the club insist on selecting Gilbo, who is worse than Clint Jones,
but refuse to play Acres- apparently Acres needs to learn to execute team rules?
Yesterday, what happened to "team rules"? Was it "let Melbourne swarm around the ball in huge numbers, don't try to chase, don't pressure, let 8 Dees run forward in a sea of red and blue and score 10 unanswered goals"
TEAM RULES my giddy aunt

[Linton Lodger]

For what it's worth Tony, your excuses are becoming long in the tooth. The one about coaching is the biggest crock I've ever read.

Some here will yell at you for this comment.
Not me.
Agree 100%.
Get ready for Rd2 for cliches from tony74, the work experience teenager from Seaford.

What a disgraceful personalised comment!

I for one, appreciate Tony74's comments.

[SaintPav]

For what it's worth Tony, your excuses are becoming long in the tooth. The one about coaching is the biggest crock I've ever read.

Some here will yell at you for this comment.
Not me.
Agree 100%.
Get ready for Rd2 for cliches from tony74, the work experience teenager from Seaford.

That's very harsh and no need to make it personal and shoot the messenger.

It's not Tony's fault the way we played.

Do you want him to stop giving us updates and inside info?

Pull your head in.

Ask this liar why the club insist on selecting Gilbo, who is worse than Clint Jones,
but refuse to play Acres- apparently Acres needs to learn to execute team rules?
Yesterday, what happened to "team rules"? Was it "let Melbourne swarm around the ball in huge numbers, don't try to chase, don't pressure, let 8 Dees run forward in a sea of red and blue and score 10 unanswered goals"
TEAM RULES my giddy aunt

Wow!

Just wow!

[Linton Lodger]

For what it's worth Tony, your excuses are becoming long in the tooth. The one about coaching is the biggest crock I've ever read.

Some here will yell at you for this comment.
Not me.
Agree 100%.
Get ready for Rd2 for cliches from tony74, the work experience teenager from Seaford.

That's very harsh and no need to make it personal and shoot the messenger.

It's not Tony's fault the way we played.

Do you want him to stop giving us updates and inside info?

Pull your head in.

Ask this liar why the club insist on selecting Gilbo, who is worse than Clint Jones,
but refuse to play Acres- apparently Acres needs to learn to execute team rules?
Yesterday, what happened to "team rules"? Was it "let Melbourne swarm around the ball in huge numbers, don't try to chase, don't pressure, let 8 Dees run forward in a sea of red and blue and score 10 unanswered goals"
TEAM RULES my giddy aunt

Wow!

Just wow!

I think the WellardSaint would make a model Richmond supporter.

[asaint]

Me too. I know we are all upset, but please we are all on the same team.

[Linton Lodger]

For what it's worth Tony, your excuses are becoming long in the tooth. The one about coaching is the biggest crock I've ever read.

Some here will yell at you for this comment.
Not me.
Agree 100%.
Get ready for Rd2 for cliches from tony74, the work experience teenager from Seaford.

That's very harsh and no need to make it personal and shoot the messenger.

It's not Tony's fault the way we played.

Do you want him to stop giving us updates and inside info?

Pull your head in.

Ask this liar why the club insist on selecting Gilbo, who is worse than Clint Jones,
but refuse to play Acres- apparently Acres needs to learn to execute team rules?
Yesterday, what happened to "team rules"? Was it "let Melbourne swarm around the ball in huge numbers, don't try to chase, don't pressure, let 8 Dees run forward in a sea of red and blue and score 10 unanswered goals"
TEAM RULES my giddy aunt

Wow!

Just wow!

I think the WellardSaint would make a model Richmond supporter, another loss and they'll be spitting at the Coach.

[twirlyhair]

Can't believe the number of soft Saints princesses on this site. Whining about the same players who were so loved when we were beating the doggies and a number of other teams late last year. One loss doesn't mean we write off our team. Get a grip peeps.