Positives: McCartin was good
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- Linton Lodger
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2467
- Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm
- Has thanked: 86 times
- Been thanked: 256 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
I was happy with Paddy's game, I have backed him all along and still do. They just need to keep playing him, I doubt he'll get much out of playing VFL. I see no reason why they cannot play Paddy, Bruce & Membrey in the same team, with Riewoldt playing on the wing and going forward when one of the 3 is rotated.
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
That's the obvious set up?
If Paddy did not come into the game in the last quarter... he should have been dropped. But he started providing a good target late... perhaps because the game slowed a bit??
If Paddy did not come into the game in the last quarter... he should have been dropped. But he started providing a good target late... perhaps because the game slowed a bit??
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18605
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1950 times
- Been thanked: 853 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
I agree with your positivity on this. We need to persist with this bloke - there is a lot to like in he way he plays - and take some of the pressure off him by getting a chf into the side. I nominate Josh Bruce.saintsRrising wrote:I know many bag Paddy.
But you can see from the way he plays that he is a smart footballer. Even little things like how he taps the ball to a team mate rather than take possession when he knows he would be tackled (other team mates should emulate this more). He knows when and wear to lead. He is a good marl even if a little down on confidence.
Personally I have no doubt that as his fitness and strength builds that he will become at least a good player, and quite possibly more. This will take a few more seasons of steady improvement.
He is on a slow build, bit that is more common that not for bigger bodied forwards like him.
PS: He could have easily kicked a few more including one early when Gresham slotted in front of Paddy where Gresh dropped an easy mark with Paddy second in line 30m out straight in front.
- Linton Lodger
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2467
- Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm
- Has thanked: 86 times
- Been thanked: 256 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
He was actually better than Membrey for the whole game. Agreed his final quarter was better, but his first 3 were alright. Its not that the ball was coming down in a half decent manner or speed.BigMart wrote:That's the obvious set up?
If Paddy did not come into the game in the last quarter... he should have been dropped. But he started providing a good target late... perhaps because the game slowed a bit??
There is no point in dropping him and it isn't warranted.
A few weeks ago Bomber Thompson was talking about Hawkins' formative & frustrating years. However, he continued to play him and make him the focal point of their forward line even when he struggled badly. That's what we need to do, then you watch Paddy when he strings together a few games, aclimitises to the pace and gets some confidence.
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30092
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Does not matter.BigMart wrote:Hawkins a different player... style, size
Point is that many key forwards of all shapes, builds, types can and have taken longer.
From Tom Lynch to Hawkins to Patton.
Not all key forwards arrive with a bang.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Wed 12 Aug 2015 2:19am
- Been thanked: 3 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
I remember fifteen-odd years ago us getting spanked by the bummers (sorry couldn't resist) but one young nick riewoldt showing some signs in the last, kicking a couple. Admittedly, Paddy wasn't as dominant in the last as nick back in the day, but it made me think and above all hope. Talk of getting rid of Paddy is crazy, forwards are rare as hen's eggs, he'll come good, and yesterday was a step in this direction. Onwards and upwards
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Correct
And I agree, he may turn out a good player
But the concerns are;
Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
And I agree, he may turn out a good player
But the concerns are;
Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10214
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1310 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Yet all those things were no issue to 18 clubs in fact he was listed as elite in two if those listed.BigMart wrote:Correct
And I agree, he may turn out a good player
But the concerns are;
Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30092
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
There are bigger fish to fry at St Kilda than our future marking forward options.
Elite Mids need to be our major concern.
With Bruce, Membrey, Paddy, Battle and Marshall we have a number of marking targets to work with.
You can win finals with ok forwards. But it is not likely to progress very far without some real quality in your midfield. And we simply do not yet have that top end talent.
Elite Mids need to be our major concern.
With Bruce, Membrey, Paddy, Battle and Marshall we have a number of marking targets to work with.
You can win finals with ok forwards. But it is not likely to progress very far without some real quality in your midfield. And we simply do not yet have that top end talent.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- Linton Lodger
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2467
- Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm
- Has thanked: 86 times
- Been thanked: 256 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Actually very few do.saintsRrising wrote:Does not matter.BigMart wrote:Hawkins a different player... style, size
Point is that many key forwards of all shapes, builds, types can and have taken longer.
From Tom Lynch to Hawkins to Patton.
Not all key forwards arrive with a bang.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Your Concerns, not shared by all, your opinion!!!!!##!!!!!BigMart wrote:Correct
And I agree, he may turn out a good player
But the concerns are;
Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3303
- Joined: Tue 23 May 2006 6:14pm
- Location: East Oakleigh
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 40 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
- White Winmar
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5014
- Joined: Tue 02 Jun 2009 10:02pm
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
It would've helped if his team mates didn't ignore him so many times. There were several times when he led well and found himself in space and the kicker just bombed it long to a contest. Very frustrating. At times it looked as though Gresh was our main forward target.iwantmeseats wrote:Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
+1White Winmar wrote:It would've helped if his team mates didn't ignore him so many times. There were several times when he led well and found himself in space and the kicker just bombed it long to a contest. Very frustrating. At times it looked as though Gresh was our main forward target.iwantmeseats wrote:Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
Will take time for mids to get full confidence in Paddy as we'll and of course our mids using the ball slot better!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3303
- Joined: Tue 23 May 2006 6:14pm
- Location: East Oakleigh
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 40 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
White Winmar wrote:It would've helped if his team mates didn't ignore him so many times. There were several times when he led well and found himself in space and the kicker just bombed it long to a contest. Very frustrating. At times it looked as though Gresh was our main forward target.iwantmeseats wrote:Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
Yeah and whats that tell you about the players mindset towards him? Zero confidence which is a concern.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Players confidence at the moment is Zero, full stop, nothing to do with Paddy!!!!!iwantmeseats wrote:White Winmar wrote:It would've helped if his team mates didn't ignore him so many times. There were several times when he led well and found himself in space and the kicker just bombed it long to a contest. Very frustrating. At times it looked as though Gresh was our main forward target.iwantmeseats wrote:Just cant time his leads right. Runs under the ball and makes it difficult for himself. Every week he plays, is more confirmation to me he wont be a long termer.magnifisaint wrote:His hands are too soft.
Yeah and whats that tell you about the players mindset towards him? Zero confidence which is a concern.
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
You're wrong on this one, his speed is good. Watch closerBigMart wrote:Correct
And I agree, he may turn out a good player
But the concerns are;
Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
He just doesn't rate Paddy, so it won't matter what he does!!!!!RODOS wrote:You're wrong on this one, his speed is good. Watch closerBigMart wrote:Correct
And I agree, he may turn out a good player
But the concerns are;
Double grabbing
Terrible running capacity
Speed
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
I have always been 50/50 with paddy.
I guess seeing the 3 types of #1 picks weve had and what weve come to expect has clouded my judgement. Roo is a once in a generation footballer and is top 2 #1 picks depending on who you talk to. BJ took a while to get going i remember there was a season he didnt take a contested mark or something of that ilk until late in the season. He copped a bit early on also. Paddy is different again hes built like an old school FF but playing in the modern game.
In Paddy's defense our ball use going inside 50 this year has been absolutely dreadful based on the eye test. On the weekend he was isolated in the 50 on many occasions and had not only Adams wearing him like a glove but had morris floating across him as well. our forward line set up does not benefit him in any way shape or form. In the NBA or NFL you build your system around the strengths of your key players. I.e Paddy needs a couple of small forwards at his feet (Gresh and Wright). He needs a bloke like Membrey to take away a defender and Most definitely needs Bruce to take the 2nd Defender. then you sprinkle a bit of Billings, Minch, Lonie and Weller (if he lifts his work rate and goes back to basics i.e 2013-2015 mav). then you have yourself a system whereby paddy can flourish.
If im going by the games from memory last year that he played well we had that system. Hawks, Dees, Tigers and Pies. This year we had that system against the Eagles, he may have kicked 2.3 but i can live with the kid wanting to put the team on his back.
I am also living with the theory the kid has small man syndrome. not that hes aggressive but he sees himself as smaller and weaker than his opponent. you see him at vfl level he has that browny strut like he owns the effing ground. i want to see that same confidence at the top level. there was a moment in his first season where he rag dolled rance to the ground and won the 1-1 contest. gimme more of that and the marks like the hawks game and youve got a best of an FF. theres also the fact he hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet. I reckon get the ball to him early. if you watched the tom boyd game in the gf he kicked an early one and i thought at the time hes in for a big day here.
In terms of the negatives the workrate and aggression is an issue. weve grown up in an era of Hammil, Hall and Gehrig who were all forwards you didnt want to mess with. but then you see paddy whos this country kid with a big smile doesnt really get you fired up. hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet either which may be causing the yips in front of goal when lining up for number 3.
overall i dont think our forward structure suits him. when membrey goes high 20 gamer paddy gets double teamed (whats he meant to do?). when its only membrey and paddy we dont have the targets to hit if we do go high and long into the 50 (hence the desparate need for bruce). we have the pieces its just a matter of developing a system that can work for 2 talls, 1 mid sized and 3 smalls.
I guess seeing the 3 types of #1 picks weve had and what weve come to expect has clouded my judgement. Roo is a once in a generation footballer and is top 2 #1 picks depending on who you talk to. BJ took a while to get going i remember there was a season he didnt take a contested mark or something of that ilk until late in the season. He copped a bit early on also. Paddy is different again hes built like an old school FF but playing in the modern game.
In Paddy's defense our ball use going inside 50 this year has been absolutely dreadful based on the eye test. On the weekend he was isolated in the 50 on many occasions and had not only Adams wearing him like a glove but had morris floating across him as well. our forward line set up does not benefit him in any way shape or form. In the NBA or NFL you build your system around the strengths of your key players. I.e Paddy needs a couple of small forwards at his feet (Gresh and Wright). He needs a bloke like Membrey to take away a defender and Most definitely needs Bruce to take the 2nd Defender. then you sprinkle a bit of Billings, Minch, Lonie and Weller (if he lifts his work rate and goes back to basics i.e 2013-2015 mav). then you have yourself a system whereby paddy can flourish.
If im going by the games from memory last year that he played well we had that system. Hawks, Dees, Tigers and Pies. This year we had that system against the Eagles, he may have kicked 2.3 but i can live with the kid wanting to put the team on his back.
I am also living with the theory the kid has small man syndrome. not that hes aggressive but he sees himself as smaller and weaker than his opponent. you see him at vfl level he has that browny strut like he owns the effing ground. i want to see that same confidence at the top level. there was a moment in his first season where he rag dolled rance to the ground and won the 1-1 contest. gimme more of that and the marks like the hawks game and youve got a best of an FF. theres also the fact he hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet. I reckon get the ball to him early. if you watched the tom boyd game in the gf he kicked an early one and i thought at the time hes in for a big day here.
In terms of the negatives the workrate and aggression is an issue. weve grown up in an era of Hammil, Hall and Gehrig who were all forwards you didnt want to mess with. but then you see paddy whos this country kid with a big smile doesnt really get you fired up. hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet either which may be causing the yips in front of goal when lining up for number 3.
overall i dont think our forward structure suits him. when membrey goes high 20 gamer paddy gets double teamed (whats he meant to do?). when its only membrey and paddy we dont have the targets to hit if we do go high and long into the 50 (hence the desparate need for bruce). we have the pieces its just a matter of developing a system that can work for 2 talls, 1 mid sized and 3 smalls.
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Speed is good, watched him running through Pre Season
Bruce absolutely burns him! Watched him in the VFL, never gets separation?!
If his speed is good, why can't he get any split??
Riewoldt has good speed.
Bruce absolutely burns him! Watched him in the VFL, never gets separation?!
If his speed is good, why can't he get any split??
Riewoldt has good speed.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 878
- Joined: Sun 27 Mar 2016 8:05pm
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 94 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Go onto the Saints Facebook page and look at the "best bits" video that was posted on the 29th.
It's all the goals we kicked... Paddy is almost involved in all of them.
It's all the goals we kicked... Paddy is almost involved in all of them.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Yeap indeed, got good separation from Adams on the lead with the goal he kicked, also had separation on several other occasions, but not used!!!!!The_President wrote:Go onto the Saints Facebook page and look at the "best bits" video that was posted on the 29th.
It's all the goals we kicked... Paddy is almost involved in all of them.
Our mids delivery and decision making was terrible, specially Newnes who just kicked it anywhere!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Tue 09 May 2017 5:39pm
- Has thanked: 199 times
- Been thanked: 248 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Wombat15 wrote:I have always been 50/50 with paddy.
I guess seeing the 3 types of #1 picks weve had and what weve come to expect has clouded my judgement. Roo is a once in a generation footballer and is top 2 #1 picks depending on who you talk to. BJ took a while to get going i remember there was a season he didnt take a contested mark or something of that ilk until late in the season. He copped a bit early on also. Paddy is different again hes built like an old school FF but playing in the modern game.
In Paddy's defense our ball use going inside 50 this year has been absolutely dreadful based on the eye test. On the weekend he was isolated in the 50 on many occasions and had not only Adams wearing him like a glove but had morris floating across him as well. our forward line set up does not benefit him in any way shape or form. In the NBA or NFL you build your system around the strengths of your key players. I.e Paddy needs a couple of small forwards at his feet (Gresh and Wright). He needs a bloke like Membrey to take away a defender and Most definitely needs Bruce to take the 2nd Defender. then you sprinkle a bit of Billings, Minch, Lonie and Weller (if he lifts his work rate and goes back to basics i.e 2013-2015 mav). then you have yourself a system whereby paddy can flourish.
If im going by the games from memory last year that he played well we had that system. Hawks, Dees, Tigers and Pies. This year we had that system against the Eagles, he may have kicked 2.3 but i can live with the kid wanting to put the team on his back.
I am also living with the theory the kid has small man syndrome. not that hes aggressive but he sees himself as smaller and weaker than his opponent. you see him at vfl level he has that browny strut like he owns the effing ground. i want to see that same confidence at the top level. there was a moment in his first season where he rag dolled rance to the ground and won the 1-1 contest. gimme more of that and the marks like the hawks game and youve got a best of an FF. theres also the fact he hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet. I reckon get the ball to him early. if you watched the tom boyd game in the gf he kicked an early one and i thought at the time hes in for a big day here.
In terms of the negatives the workrate and aggression is an issue. weve grown up in an era of Hammil, Hall and Gehrig who were all forwards you didnt want to mess with. but then you see paddy whos this country kid with a big smile doesnt really get you fired up. hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet either which may be causing the yips in front of goal when lining up for number 3.
overall i dont think our forward structure suits him. when membrey goes high 20 gamer paddy gets double teamed (whats he meant to do?). when its only membrey and paddy we dont have the targets to hit if we do go high and long into the 50 (hence the desparate need for bruce). we have the pieces its just a matter of developing a system that can work for 2 talls, 1 mid sized and 3 smalls.
Best opinion/view on Paddy I've read yet!
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Tue 09 May 2017 5:39pm
- Has thanked: 199 times
- Been thanked: 248 times
Re: Positives: McCartin was good
Wombat15 wrote:I have always been 50/50 with paddy.
I guess seeing the 3 types of #1 picks weve had and what weve come to expect has clouded my judgement. Roo is a once in a generation footballer and is top 2 #1 picks depending on who you talk to. BJ took a while to get going i remember there was a season he didnt take a contested mark or something of that ilk until late in the season. He copped a bit early on also. Paddy is different again hes built like an old school FF but playing in the modern game.
In Paddy's defense our ball use going inside 50 this year has been absolutely dreadful based on the eye test. On the weekend he was isolated in the 50 on many occasions and had not only Adams wearing him like a glove but had morris floating across him as well. our forward line set up does not benefit him in any way shape or form. In the NBA or NFL you build your system around the strengths of your key players. I.e Paddy needs a couple of small forwards at his feet (Gresh and Wright). He needs a bloke like Membrey to take away a defender and Most definitely needs Bruce to take the 2nd Defender. then you sprinkle a bit of Billings, Minch, Lonie and Weller (if he lifts his work rate and goes back to basics i.e 2013-2015 mav). then you have yourself a system whereby paddy can flourish.
If im going by the games from memory last year that he played well we had that system. Hawks, Dees, Tigers and Pies. This year we had that system against the Eagles, he may have kicked 2.3 but i can live with the kid wanting to put the team on his back.
I am also living with the theory the kid has small man syndrome. not that hes aggressive but he sees himself as smaller and weaker than his opponent. you see him at vfl level he has that browny strut like he owns the effing ground. i want to see that same confidence at the top level. there was a moment in his first season where he rag dolled rance to the ground and won the 1-1 contest. gimme more of that and the marks like the hawks game and youve got a best of an FF. theres also the fact he hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet. I reckon get the ball to him early. if you watched the tom boyd game in the gf he kicked an early one and i thought at the time hes in for a big day here.
In terms of the negatives the workrate and aggression is an issue. weve grown up in an era of Hammil, Hall and Gehrig who were all forwards you didnt want to mess with. but then you see paddy whos this country kid with a big smile doesnt really get you fired up. hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in a game yet either which may be causing the yips in front of goal when lining up for number 3.
overall i dont think our forward structure suits him. when membrey goes high 20 gamer paddy gets double teamed (whats he meant to do?). when its only membrey and paddy we dont have the targets to hit if we do go high and long into the 50 (hence the desparate need for bruce). we have the pieces its just a matter of developing a system that can work for 2 talls, 1 mid sized and 3 smalls.
Best opinion/view on Paddy I've read yet!