What has Ameet/The Romans ever done for us?

[Drake Huggins]

I notice a few posters on here have questioned the competence and record of Ameet Bains, our list manager since 2013. That's a bit like the PFJ asking, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" Apart from completely altering our list and payment profiles, bringing them back to a state where we can once again get into the market and pay appropriately, nothing I suppose. Showing fiscal responsibility and planning for the future, so that never again do we spend 60% of our salary cap on just 10 players. Bringing Carlisle to the club by not blinking when Dildoro was making a complete tool of himself. Getting pick 14 as part of that trade, which ultimately brought Gresh to our club, has been shown to be a masterstroke. I noted that the Pelican said in the media we should've just done the deal for pick five and get on with it. That stupidity was entirely consistent with that overrated tool's track record.

Bringing Roberton, Membrey, Baroose, Brown, Steele, and Stevens to our club for a sum total of a 2nd round, two 3rd round and 4th round picks. Repaired the damage done by the Pelican, whose first year of our rebuild saw us give away picks 12, 13 and 20, for the princely sum of Lee, Hickey and White, while adding Murdoch, Wright, and Saunders. Need I remind you that pick 20 got us Milera and Saad in return.

Outstanding work, Mr. Pelican! Then, like a seagull, more than a pelican, he pissed off and left Ameet and trout to clean up the mess. It would be fair to say that at that point our list was in the worst shape it had been since the early 80's. While we need a cherry on top of a stable cake, to top off five years of sacrifice and tight control, the trade period still has 72 hours to go. You never know. I also add the fact we haven't lost a single young player or anyone for that matter we didn't want to. Billings, Ross, Bruce Acres etc. have all attracted interest from other clubs. Apart from all that, what has Ameet done for us?

[SuperDuper]

Agreed. The saints list manager job in 2011 was the worst one in the league... a real basket case

Aging stars and horrid drafting between 2003-2010 so absolutely nothing in the prime age category and absolutely no youngsters coming through

With what he had to work with, Bains has done very well IMHO.
You cant turn a club around in 1 year or 2 years with that sort of list.

Put it this way.. imagine our list management from 2003-2010 continued from 2011-2017... wowzers.. just uncompetitive
Bains is competitive at AFL level.. I would say more than competitive

personally I am bullish on the list we are building.. lets hope things work out with 7&8 this year.. will really put us on track !

[saynta]

I'm starting to get a crush on you Drake Huggins.Aa man crush but a crush all the time.

It is very unusual to get a poster who posts truthful facts on this forum about how the club is currently being run and and not perverse made up bulls***.

Love you for it. Keep up the good work.

[Drake Huggins]

You're only human, saynta. And not there's anything wrong with that!

[skeptic]

A list manager lives and dies by the results... and Ameet is a work in progress. I think from a list turnover POV, recruiting recycled players and salary cap he has done really well...
Have we drafted beautifully? Hits and misses. Lots of potential but nothing has materialised into a master stroke.

List deficiencies!? Yep the midfield... plan to address it via FA. Hasn't happened this year = not the end of the world, we get another crack in 12 months.
Pbly too many HBF, small forwards... too many similar ruck types... need more key backs and outside mids

Am I happy? He's done ok. Could be better, could be worse... his fate will be determined by our progress over the next 24 months.

I don't really get the hoohaa around this

[saynta]

You're only human, saynta. And not there's anything wrong with that!

[Con Gorozidis]

The Romans ruled Europe for centuries.

Bains has been in the job five years and we haven't made the 8 once. He is plain average. Admittedly he inherited a poor list.

The trouble with Saints fan is our expectations are so low that if someone is mildly competent we treat them like a guru and put them on a pedestal.

[carn_sainter]

I'm interested in how many people on here really know what Bains does. I don't really but my understanding is contrary to the prevailing view that he is a list manager.

I understand him to be in charge of TPP, contract negotiations with existing and prospective (traded for) players and list strategy. List strategy is not the same as list management. In this sense, Bains is more the executive to whom the list manager reports.

So I think we should judge him on
- have we paid too much (to the player or club from which we got him) for anyone under Bains?
- have we had any bargains under Bains?
- do we have space in the cap, both now and in the seasons ahead?
- is our list well structured in terms of positions filled and contract loading/timing, both now and in seasons ahead?
- are the people who report to Bains doing their jobs well?

I'm in no position to answer these comprehensively. I wonder who among us is?

[Con Gorozidis]

I'm interested in how many people on here really know what Bains does. I don't really but my understanding is contrary to the prevailing view that he is a list manager.

I understand him to be in charge of TPP, contract negotiations with existing and prospective (traded for) players and list strategy. List strategy is not the same as list management. In this sense, Bains is more the executive to whom the list manager reports.

So I think we should judge him on
- have we paid too much (to the player or club from which we got him) for anyone under Bains?
- have we had any bargains under Bains?
- do we have space in the cap, both now and in the seasons ahead?
- is our list well structured in terms of positions filled and contract loading/timing, both now and in seasons ahead?
- are the people who report to Bains doing their jobs well?

I'm in no position to answer these comprehensively. I wonder who among us is?

Five rucks on the list is a problem for starters.

Still very unclear what kind of fwd line we are going to have.

[Cairnsman]

I notice a few posters on here have questioned the competence and record of Ameet Bains, our list manager since 2013. That's a bit like the PFJ asking, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" Apart from completely altering our list and payment profiles, bringing them back to a state where we can once again get into the market and pay appropriately, nothing I suppose. Showing fiscal responsibility and planning for the future, so that never again do we spend 60% of our salary cap on just 10 players. Bringing Carlisle to the club by not blinking when Dildoro was making a complete tool of himself. Getting pick 14 as part of that trade, which ultimately brought Gresh to our club, has been shown to be a masterstroke. I noted that the Pelican said in the media we should've just done the deal for pick five and get on with it. That stupidity was entirely consistent with that overrated tool's track record.

Bringing Roberton, Membrey, Baroose, Brown, Steele, and Stevens to our club for a sum total of a 2nd round, two 3rd round and 4th round picks. Repaired the damage done by the Pelican, whose first year of our rebuild saw us give away picks 12, 13 and 20, for the princely sum of Lee, Hickey and White, while adding Murdoch, Wright, and Saunders. Need I remind you that pick 20 got us Milera and Saad in return.

Outstanding work, Mr. Pelican! Then, like a seagull, more than a pelican, he pissed off and left Ameet and trout to clean up the mess. It would be fair to say that at that point our list was in the worst shape it had been since the early 80's. While we need a cherry on top of a stable cake, to top off five years of sacrifice and tight control, the trade period still has 72 hours to go. You never know. I also add the fact we haven't lost a single young player or anyone for that matter we didn't want to. Billings, Ross, Bruce Acres etc. have all attracted interest from other clubs. Apart from all that, what has Ameet done for us?

I would add going to this year's draft with pick 7 & 8 intact, slow and steady wins the race. Trading for a first rounder in next years draft could even be a good decision.

[stevie]

The aqueduct?

[Drake Huggins]

The Romans ruled Europe for centuries.

Bains has been in the job five years and we haven't ma de the 8 once. He is plain average. Admittedly he inherited a poor list.

The trouble with Saints fan is our expectations are so low that if someone is mildly competent we treat them like a guru and put them on a pedestal.

Rome wasn't built in a day, Con. Not even in five years!

[thejiggingsaint]

The Romans ruled Europe for centuries.

Bains has been in the job five years and we haven't made the 8 once. He is plain average. Admittedly he inherited a poor list.

The trouble with Saints fan is our expectations are so low that if someone is mildly competent we treat them like a guru and put them on a pedestal.

And look at Rome now!

[parkeysainter]

Good post Drake.

In Bains We Trust. He is an A grade operator.

The fact the Hawks chased him to be their CEO and the AFL wants him for one of their top positions is added spice. Since he went into his new role after Pelican left he has done an outstanding job. For one, just take a look at all the re-signings this year. Great work.

[saintsRrising]

I'm interested in how many people on here really know what Bains does. I don't really but my understanding is contrary to the prevailing view that he is a list manager.

Bains was promoted to Chief Operating Officer & General Counsel. Though as he seems to like the "operations" side of things he has kept an involvement in List Management.

He was promoted to his current role in July 2014.


A key member of the club's recruiting team during that period, he will relinquish those duties with the club believed to be looking into its recruiting structure.

It is understood he will retain list management responsibilities, controlling player contracts and the Saints' salary cap while also overseeing projects such as the Moorabbin redevelopment and push into New Zealand

The Moo gets a big tick. Our Kiwi push floundered. While payer contracts look mainly look Ok, one scratches one's head about some of deals handed out to Pierce, Wright and others.

Trout is our current Recruiting & List Manager.

He was proted in Jan 2105.

A PROMOTION for long-time St Kilda recruiter Tony Elshaug and the addition of former Carlton head recruiter Wayne Hughes headline changes to the Saints’ respected list-management and recruiting team.

Following a highly successfully 2014 National Draft, St Kilda has now completed its revamp of the team as part of wider changes to the football department.

Chief Operating Officer & General Counsel, Ameet Bains will continue to oversee the list management and recruiting areas including the management of the club’s Total Player Payment (TPP) and player contracting. Bains said that Elshaug had been recognised for his strong work ethic, expertise and leadership.



In 2008 Bains joined Carlton as a volunteer welfare officer under Rod Ashman, but his football employye days started when he joined St Kilda in January 2011 as the General Manager Player List and Legal Affairs.

Pelchen joined the Saints at the end of July 2011.

Bains was part of a strategic review, alongside Chris Pelchen, which identified a need to rebuild the list along the lines of the successful Port Adelaide and Hawthorn blueprints. As Bains notes, “unless something dramatic happened, we were going to go into the wilderness for a period of time… Whilst the draft and other measures over time can help square things up, we needed to take a more proactive approach to transforming the list.”


The strategic view under Bains is realistic and requires a couple of years of pain; hence Bains doesn’t foresee drafting any high-end free agents as a priority. “There’s no point bringing these high-priced free agents that will help us get from 13th to 10th to eighth, as opposed to taking us from eighth to sixth to first,” he says, his mind quite clearly on taking St Kilda right back to the top in the not-too-distant future.

Part A went ok. Part B did not happen this year.

[Con Gorozidis]

Good post Drake.

In Bains We Trust. He is an A grade operator.

The fact the Hawks chased him to be their CEO and the AFL wants him for one of their top positions is added spice. Since he went into his new role after Pelican left he has done an outstanding job. For one, just take a look at all the re-signings this year. Great work.

Six years in the job and not a single finals appearance.
There are 18 sides and 8 make the finals each year.
That means 48 finals spots up for grabs in six years (12-17).

We are batting at 0/48.

Hardly a cause for celebration.

[cwrcyn]

I am struggling to remember a single positive word you have written about our club, Con. I don't normally comment on individual posters, but your negativity is at the olympic level.

[SuperDuper]

Good post Drake.

In Bains We Trust. He is an A grade operator.

The fact the Hawks chased him to be their CEO and the AFL wants him for one of their top positions is added spice. Since he went into his new role after Pelican left he has done an outstanding job. For one, just take a look at all the re-signings this year. Great work.

Six years in the job and not a single finals appearance.
There are 18 sides and 8 make the finals each year.
That means 48 finals spots up for grabs in six years (12-17).

We are batting at 0/48.

Hardly a cause for celebration.

Yes, ignore the mess he inherited

And the 0/48 stat is obviously ridiculous, if you cannot see why not in a probabilistic sense then I wont bother
Judging against his peers quantatively is extremely difficult and this contribution is rubbish

[parkeysainter]

Good post Drake.

In Bains We Trust. He is an A grade operator.

The fact the Hawks chased him to be their CEO and the AFL wants him for one of their top positions is added spice. Since he went into his new role after Pelican left he has done an outstanding job. For one, just take a look at all the re-signings this year. Great work.

Six years in the job and not a single finals appearance.
There are 18 sides and 8 make the finals each year.
That means 48 finals spots up for grabs in six years (12-17).

We are batting at 0/48.

Hardly a cause for celebration.

Are you serious Con G?

He basically started at the club in a rebuild and has done a great job in the roles given to him since then. Its been widely acknowledged and is evident to see. We are on the cusp of finals and Bains is just a part of the big puzzle that is in play every season.

Your attempt to discredit Bains due to the Saints missing out on finals in a rebuild period is very laughable. Surely you are just taking the piss. Why don't you just change teams like a 6 year old...might make things a little easier.

[the dome]

I'm still appreciating the fact that we have Ameet doing his darn best for St.Kilda.
With injury issues to Hughie & Paddy it makes me think Ameet could have been a bit more fortunate with these potential bookends dodging injury issues & instead helping us power back into contention much quicker with these 2 bigger units enjoying a real honeymoon period. This hasn't happened as yet but tomorrow is a new day.
This coming November Ameet & his helpers will have Picks 7 & 8 with which to continue the rebuild, that is if we don't trade up to a higher pick. Ameet is very capable in bringing genuinely talented players to St. Kilda Football Club & with a bit of good fortune picks 7 & 8 will lift the bar higher again.

[degruch]

Good post Drake.

In Bains We Trust. He is an A grade operator.

The fact the Hawks chased him to be their CEO and the AFL wants him for one of their top positions is added spice. Since he went into his new role after Pelican left he has done an outstanding job. For one, just take a look at all the re-signings this year. Great work.

Six years in the job and not a single finals appearance.
There are 18 sides and 8 make the finals each year.
That means 48 finals spots up for grabs in six years (12-17).

We are batting at 0/48.

Hardly a cause for celebration.

Had we got luckier and made the finals in his first year, could he add it to his resume? I think not, so similarly can't claim not making the finals was his departments fault either.

Moving on, we had a list from 2013 onwards that, had it been the 80's, would have seen us collect another 10 wooden spoons. A few aging stars doing everything, a list clean out and 37 HBF's...not an enviable position to rebuild from. Now we're back in finals contention (well, last year at least), from almost zero. That's thanks in part to 'equalisation measures', but as we've noted with preferential treatment for clubs like Melbourne, GCS and Brisbane when they've been down, not all cellar dwellers are equal. We're equal or ahead of all these in shorter time.

We've kicked a few goals in the draft, not to many spectacular disasters unless you count Petracca/McCartin...but that is an injury driven issue and may be too early to call regardless.

Lastly, I don't remember thinking "BLOODY AHMEET!!!" when the team listlessly folded to Melbourne, Sydney, Melbourne, and Richmond this year...we all saw the players lack of endevour, as much as we had in periods during 2016. Even Richo admitted towards the end of the season that there were a number of players hitting the 50/60/70 game mark that had delivered much less than expected. So we can hardly blame recruiting for our finals no-show this year...the tools were all there, the endevour not.

[Con Gorozidis]

I dont think Ameet is doing a bad job.
He is doing a normal job.

I know he hasnt raped anyone. Hasnt been involved in a scandal involving strippers or cocaine. So for a Saints employee - that is fairly impressive....

But that doesn't make him a 'genius'. Nor is he is a 'master'.

He is just a regular person doing a competent job. At no point am I 'blaming' him or pointing 'fault'.
Similarly I dont think he is a guru either.

Why does the conversation need to be one extreme or another? Cant I just think he is a normal competent professional doing a normal competent job? He is neither exceptional nor terrible.

We haven't made the 8 in 7 years. Let alone won a final. Along with North we are the most irrelevant club in the AFL.

I can assure people that the AFL industry is not even slightly impressed or envious of Ameet and co.

[degruch]

Well, for what it's worth I didn't say he was a genius or a master either, but he has done more than sit around waiting for Hawthorn! It's nice to see you giving him some credit at least, ConGo.

Anyway, all opinions at this time of the year must be extreme, you know the rules.

[SuperDuper]

Well, for what it's worth I didn't say he was a genius or a master either, but he has done more than sit around waiting for Hawthorn! It's nice to see you giving him some credit at least, ConGo.

Anyway, all opinions at this time of the year must be extreme, you know the rules.

yep, lots of straw men and and invented quantative arguments by Con today..

People here generally think Bains has done a good job, from where the list was when he joined... including a couple of very good trades

[Jacks Back]

The aqueduct?

And the sanitation!