Saints v Demons - Round 7

[St. Paul]

When these skills and development coaches finish up at St Kilda, how are they going to get another job in the industry using their work at St Kilda as a reference.

That is why, Wayne42, the St.Kilda Football Club has been the Bermuda Triangle of the competition for many an aspiring coach. Good men have entered with strong reputations, only to have their careers vanish without a trace. RL the only survivor of this mysterious phenomenon that I can think of.

Errrrrrrrrrrr.......... Allan Jeans? Ring any bells champ?

My bad, Jiggster. He was a tough bastard, was the Yabbster. It would take more than a mysterious phenomenon to bring him down! You do get my point though, don't you Jiggster? I'll see your Yabby and raise you Mike Patterson, Tony Jewell, Graeme Gellie, Ken Sheldon, Stan Alves, Tim Watson, Malcolm Blight, Grant Thomas and Scott Watters, soon to be joined by Alan Richardson. The prosecution rests.

[Devilhead]

So I don't see anyone dropping Billings here.

That is a problem.

If we dropped Billings we would currently be having 4 to 5 less shots at goal a game ..... which equates to 9 to 10 less pts or 20 - 25% of our score

3 behinds he is worth.

Needs to go to sandringham until he kicks six goals three weeks in a row.

Pretty sure he has kicked at least one goal in each of the past 2 games and he is not the only missing shots

[mad saint guy]

If I could pick the team

Out: Newnes, Gilbert
In: Marshall, Clark

B: Webster, Brown, Geary
HB: Savage, Carlisle, White
C: Acres, Steele, Sinclair
HF: Billings, Marshall, Weller
F: Long, McCartin, Membrey

Foll: Hickey, Steven, Ross
Int: Clark, Coffield, Gresham, Dunstan

At this point there is absolutely no reason to continue playing ordinary/out of form older players so Newnes and Gilbert go back to Sandy so we can pump games into Marshall and Clark (I also think that improves our structure). Geary back to being a small lock down defender - the only role he should ever play. One of Marshall or McCartin to stay in front of the ball at all times to give us a tall marking target with Long and Weller ready to crumb or crunch the opposition. Gresham to split his time between midfield and forward, same for Clark. Marshall to ruck 8 or so minutes each quarter to keep Hickey fresh and allow Acres to play his natural game as a roaming midfielder. Brown to wear Hogan like a glove and Carlisle to take Weideman.

If we pick the team well, go in with a good structure and the players decide to turn up we can absolutely win this game. There's every chance we'll lose by 10 goals as well.

[St. Paul]

O.K. This will cause a barrage of criticism but it’s the fact. Nothing wrong with the coaches, nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with team selection. What is fundamentally wrong is the skill level and confidence. It’s deplorable. Absolutely deplorable. And they all know it.

How does Skunk go from our leading goal-scorer
to another fumbling Basil Fawlty?
How do all these players keep missing targets?
The coaches have not 'developed' anyone,
they have "regressed" them
or made them go backwards at an astonishing rate.

Coaches have one job- to coach.
If the guys can't hit the side of a barn from INSIDE the bloody barn,
somebody ain't doin their job

Spot on, WS. I know you're restricted in what you can say, Tony74, but if you, the coaches and the players really believe what you just wrote, then we can see where the problems lie. You're all deluded. That is just insulting the members, supporters and sponsors. The media has commented on it ad nauseaum. Many posters on here even predicted this outcome during the preseason. How highly paid, so called professionals can't see what is palpable to everyone else, beggars belief. It only confirms our worst fears. Our club is run by a bunch of incompetent numpties, who don't have a clue. That, or they are just being plainly dishonest to hide their incompetence. Either way, it's season over. Again. Spin that.

[Dave McNamara]

O.K. This will cause a barrage of criticism but it’s the fact. Nothing wrong with the coaches, nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with team selection. What is fundamentally wrong is the skill level and confidence. It’s deplorable. Absolutely deplorable. And they all know it.

Hi tony, could you elaborate a little more on that please?

Are you saying that the skill level is down, largely because confidence is down? Or, are you saying that the skill level of (too many of) the players is low? (Deplorable even?)

If the latter, what is the realistic assessment amongst the coaching staff as to how much improvement is possible? And is/will the game plan have to be adjusted to take into account said skill level issues? Ta.

[saintspremiers]

O.K. This will cause a barrage of criticism but it’s the fact. Nothing wrong with the coaches, nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with team selection. What is fundamentally wrong is the skill level and confidence. It’s deplorable. Absolutely deplorable. And they all know it.

Hi tony, could you elaborate a little more on that please?

Are you saying that the skill level is down, largely because confidence is down? Or, are you saying that the skill level of (too many of) the players is low? (Deplorable even?)

If the latter, what is the realistic assessment amongst the coaching staff as to how much improvement is possible? And is/will the game plan have to be adjusted to take into account said skill level issues? Ta.

If it’s morale that’s the problem that’s the fault of the coach and his assistants - it’s their job to have the players menatally and physically ready, using whatever tools/personal at their disposal.

I don’t buy in to the lack skills of the players. They’re under instruction to play certain roles that have been easily found out by our opponents. We are easy to challenge mentally and have no resilincence when things go pear shaped.

[spert]

When these skills and development coaches finish up at St Kilda, how are they going to get another job in the industry using their work at St Kilda as a reference.

That is why, Wayne42, the St.Kilda Football Club has been the Bermuda Triangle of the competition for many an aspiring coach. Good men have entered with strong reputations, only to have their careers vanish without a trace. RL the only survivor of this mysterious phenomenon that I can think of.

Errrrrrrrrrrr.......... Allan Jeans? Ring any bells champ?

The one and only

[Linton Lodger]

O.K. This will cause a barrage of criticism but it’s the fact. Nothing wrong with the coaches, nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with team selection. What is fundamentally wrong is the skill level and confidence. It’s deplorable. Absolutely deplorable. And they all know it.

Well sorry Tony, but that still falls back onto the coaching staff!!!!!

Respectfully Stoney, when Jack Steven & Shane Savage miss their team mate with what should be a bog standard easy kick (first 2 turnovers of the match costing goals) and when Tim Membrey tries to kick the leather off the ball, hits his shin and hits the post. That ain't the Coaching staff. Then the Coaching staff can't come out on the ground and take players' set shots for goal.

[Linton Lodger]

So I don't see anyone dropping Billings here.

That is a problem.

Trouble is if Jack goes back to Sandy, it will be like playing AFLX for him. He would run amok at VFL level, no pressure for him. Sure it may give him the opportunity to get into kicking form, but as I said, to him the pressure at VFL level would be nothing.

He is badly out of form, yet he's still getting it 20 odd times and havingf 3 or 4 scoring shots per game. He'll turn up one day with his kicking boots on (maybe this week), get it 30 times and kick 4 or 5 goals.

[stonecold]

O.K. This will cause a barrage of criticism but it’s the fact. Nothing wrong with the coaches, nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with team selection. What is fundamentally wrong is the skill level and confidence. It’s deplorable. Absolutely deplorable. And they all know it.

Well sorry Tony, but that still falls back onto the coaching staff!!!!!

Respectfully Stoney, when Jack Steven & Shane Savage miss their team mate with what should be a bog standard easy kick (first 2 turnovers of the match costing goals) and when Tim Membrey tries to kick the leather off the ball, hits his shin and hits the post. That ain't the Coaching staff. Then the Coaching staff can't come out on the ground and take players' set shots for goal.

Respectfully LL, that still comes down to coaching, yes the coaching cannot execute the skills for players, agreed, however their job is to train players to execute under pressure, through fitness, training and allowing players to play to their strengths etc.

I see you point and agree to some extent, however the coaching staff are not getting the best out of the playing group, so to me, that comes down to coaching/development!!!!!

At the end of the day, the coach is responsible!!!!!

[degruch]

So I don't see anyone dropping Billings here.

That is a problem.

Trouble is if Jack goes back to Sandy, it will be like playing AFLX for him. He would run amok at VFL level, no pressure for him. Sure it may give him the opportunity to get into kicking form, but as I said, to him the pressure at VFL level would be nothing.

He is badly out of form, yet he's still getting it 20 odd times and havingf 3 or 4 scoring shots per game. He'll turn up one day with his kicking boots on (maybe this week), get it 30 times and kick 4 or 5 goals.

It's a real conundrum, because he looks like Johnny Punchclock out there...he's turned up to work and produced the same lacklustre results 6 weeks in a row, where's the motivation to improve coming from? Dropping to the VFL represents not only a chance to fine tune some skills, but its also a demotion. I take onboard the notion that we're losing a contributor to our scoreline, but we do have other options, so not all those scoring opportunities will be lost.

Arguably Gresham is just as ready for a spell in the 2nds, but he seems to have more endeavour than Jack IMO.

Battle...Marshall...is it an opportunity for a tall forward line with Gresh and Long still at the feet?

[Joffa Burns]

O.K. This will cause a barrage of criticism but it’s the fact. Nothing wrong with the coaches, nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with team selection. What is fundamentally wrong is the skill level and confidence. It’s deplorable. Absolutely deplorable. And they all know it.

Tony, I have been involved with elite sport & many Olympic level coaches and sports physiologists.
Players lacking confidence collectively and out of form as previously mentioned by AR is clearly a coaching issue.
I can't see how you could differentiate or suggest nothing wrong with coaches but players are lacking confidence.
Belief in ability, teammates, structure, game plan, preparation is absolutely the coaching panels responsibility.

If the players lack the skills we are either drafting the wrong type or not developing them correctly.
I do not think it's skills personally, it's confidence.

With no knowledge (granted) my best guess looking at performance is that they are mentally shot and lack belief across the board.

[desertsaint]

blind freddy can see it's a coaching issue. their is a real lack of direction on the field and the resulting loss of moral, and when that goes so do our skills and ability to play our roles. we lost our best two coaches last year in roo and joey, and we're left rusderless on field. that our coaching staff allowed this to happen, despite years to prepare, suggests they were blind to the sheer amount of influence those two had, or simply did not know how to balance it.

[MC Gusto]

We are fully f***ed

It is going to be one hell of a long season

Need to start planning now as to how we trade back into the draft given we have no pick2 or 3

Of and forget FA - even in the remote case a player wants to join us...unless they are 22 or below it is just not worth it

[Linton Lodger]

O.K. This will cause a barrage of criticism but it’s the fact. Nothing wrong with the coaches, nothing wrong with the game plan, nothing wrong with team selection. What is fundamentally wrong is the skill level and confidence. It’s deplorable. Absolutely deplorable. And they all know it.

Well sorry Tony, but that still falls back onto the coaching staff!!!!!

Respectfully Stoney, when Jack Steven & Shane Savage miss their team mate with what should be a bog standard easy kick (first 2 turnovers of the match costing goals) and when Tim Membrey tries to kick the leather off the ball, hits his shin and hits the post. That ain't the Coaching staff. Then the Coaching staff can't come out on the ground and take players' set shots for goal.

Respectfully LL, that still comes down to coaching, yes the coaching cannot execute the skills for players, agreed, however their job is to train players to execute under pressure, through fitness, training and allowing players to play to their strengths etc.

I see you point and agree to some extent, however the coaching staff are not getting the best out of the playing group, so to me, that comes down to coaching/development!!!!!

At the end of the day, the coach is responsible!!!!!

I hear you, but in the 3 examples i gave, the players were under no real pressure.

[prwilkinson]

Anyone going to bother going this weekend?

[prwilkinson]

Anyone going to bother going this weekend?

[saynta]

Firstly a big thanks to the Bummers for playing the Dees back into form

Now for changes -

Drop Weller for Marshall who must play along with Hickey to counter Gawn

Drop Gresham for Armo to give us more grunt in the middle

Play Coffield forward - he has shown he can kick goals in the TAC Cup

Put a hard tag on Hibberd by Gilbert

Let Steele go head to head with Oliver

Sinclair to play permanent forward

Acres to play wing midfield with a licence to go forward

That's all at this stage

Not a bad start but I think Coffield needs a rest.

[thejiggingsaint]

Anyone going to bother going this weekend?

WHO are you talking about PRW? The players? or the “ supporters”? I don’t know about anyone else, but I know that THIS little man is going to “bother”........... after seeing those folk in Launceston last weekend at the pre game function, seeing their absolute loyalty and faith, in the face of an awful run of form, I’d be embarrassed NOT to ( ahem) as you put it: “ bother”

[prwilkinson]

Anyone going to bother going this weekend?

WHO are you talking about PRW? The players? or the “ supporters”? I don’t know about anyone else, but I know that THIS little man is going to “bother”........... after seeing those folk in Launceston last weekend at the pre game function, seeing their absolute loyalty and faith, in the face of an awful run of form, I’d be embarrassed NOT to ( ahem) as you put it: “ bother”

I'll be there as always. Lets hope the rest turn up.

[bigred]

Melbourne are going to have their way with us.

I can see how it will play out.

We will be very competitive. Contested ball... Mop up out of D50 repeatedly. However we will turn it over in the last 80 meters repeatedly. Savage will butcher it like nothing ever seen.

Our entries will suck the proverbial arse and we will kick 1 goal, 5 behinds in the first qtr. Billings will miss 3. Gresham wont even get near it.
Melbourne, despite not getting much of the ball, will score off almost every second entry, going into qtr time 4 goals, 2 behinds...

Rinse and repeat for three more quarters.

Come on here and bitch about it.

[thejiggingsaint]

Melbourne are going to have their way with us.

I can see how it will play out.

We will be very competitive. Contested ball... Mop up out of D50 repeatedly. However we will turn it over in the last 80 meters repeatedly. Savage will butcher it like nothing ever seen.

Our entries will suck the proverbial arse and we will kick 1 goal, 5 behinds in the first qtr. Billings will miss 3. Gresham wont even get near it.
Melbourne, despite not getting much of the ball, will score off almost every second entry, going into qtr time 4 goals, 2 behinds...

Rinse and repeat for three more quarters.

Come on here and bitch about it.

WOW! As good as THAT?! Gee I’d better get there early!

[degruch]

Anyone going to bother going this weekend?

I bothered last time you asked and got a very entertaining, immensely disappointing draw...reckon I'll give it another crack. Although Melbourne supporters are the smuggest pricks I've encountered (for a team that hasn't played finals in 12 years), so not sure I could stomach a loss.

[DJ Higgins]

Anyone going to bother going this weekend?

With colours shown proudly. This is when we need to turn up and support the handful of guys playing well. I hope we make huge changes this week. Drop Billings, Gresh, Newnes, Gilbo and even skunk. Don't care who comes in to be honest because they can not be a lot worse plus it will send a message. Get better or don't play. I am starting to think the players aren't buying Richo's plan and it is showing

[desertsaint]

Melbourne are going to have their way with us.

I can see how it will play out.

We will be very competitive. Contested ball... Mop up out of D50 repeatedly. However we will turn it over in the last 80 meters repeatedly. Savage will butcher it like nothing ever seen.

Our entries will suck the proverbial arse and we will kick 1 goal, 5 behinds in the first qtr. Billings will miss 3. Gresham wont even get near it.
Melbourne, despite not getting much of the ball, will score off almost every second entry, going into qtr time 4 goals, 2 behinds...

Rinse and repeat for three more quarters.

Come on here and bitch about it.

WOW! As good as THAT?! Gee I’d better get there early!

resilience and a sense of humour (the two are bedfellows of course)! something any sainter fan should have in bucket loads. good on ya jiggy.