Some Richo Insight into What to Expect Next Year

[rodgerfox]

They had Richo doing the analysis of Richmond's win last night on AFL360, in particular the 'grubby goals' that Clarkson mentioned post-game.

Unfortunately for us, he showed 3 or 4 examples of them 'bombing it in', with the forwards 'flat handing' it to the front of the pack, and their crumbers being in position to score from it.

I immediately thought, oh well, there goes 2019. And most likely, McCartin's career.


The issue here is this:

Richmond are 2nd in the comp for Inside 50 - and they are 2nd for Marks Inside 50s. They are 14th for Disposals.

We are 13th in the Comp for Inside 50s, and 12th for Marks Inside 50. We are 3rd for Disposals.

So not only do they move the ball forward with far greater efficiency, they deliver it to targets that actually mark the pill when they're Inside 50.

What Richo highlighted, and what he clearly believes if the answer to football, and what clearly has rendered us useless is actually Richmond's Plan B. Not their 'go to', not their Plan A. There's a reason Clarkson referred to them as 'grubby goals' - because you don't win games from doing it every week. You need to be able to to do it when the time is right - but if it's your Plan A, you're rooted. It's simply not efficient enough, and definitely not sustainable.

When under pressure, Richmond have the ability to scramble the ball forward. When under pressure, they bomb it in to a contest in 'the hot spot'. When not in a position to mark it in Inside 50 - they bring it to the front.

However....when the are composed, the use the ball effectively, and cleanly. Their first option is to spot up a target Inside 50. When at all possible - they try to mark the ball Inside 50 as their first intent.



How can he not see this?

How can he wreck the career of McCartin by teaching a young, hugely talented contested mark not to mark the ball? It's very important for forwards to be able to bring the ball to ground as a second option, don't get me wrong. But the first option for a key marking forward, is to mark the nut! Jack Riewoldt spent the first 200 odd games of his career attempting to mark everything in sight. Now, as a 250 gamer, he has the ability to both lead the comp in Marks Inside 50 for two years running, AND bring to the ball to the front of the pack when he can't - not vice versa!


So, I guess as long as Richo is at the helm, we're going to see of the rubbish we served up this year.

[Jacks Back]

+ a billion

I thought exactly the same thing about the flat hands thing but richo is so thick. In the first one Rioli tries to mark it but it spills to the waiting tigers. In the second Jack R is caught behind and brings the ball to ground.

As you say, lower your eyes and look for a marking target, if no target then the bomb it in long option.

The other thing I would like to note is that Richmond (and a few other teams) are a go forward team. We are a go backwards and sideways team and we're rubbish.

[Drew21]

The issue is not the flat hands. It’s the fact that we get out marked in contests all over the ground

Richmond’s players all have great vertical leaps which allows them to contest even when caught behind and out of position

Mccartin can’t jump and he is undersized as a key forward
Compared to jack reiwoldt who is undersized but can leap same with caddy
Constanta
Rioli they can all jump

Bruce is the only player who can do this on our list and it’s

[Sainter_Dad]

The issue is not the flat hands. It’s the fact that we get out marked in contests all over the ground

Richmond’s players all have great vertical leaps which allows them to contest even when caught behind and out of position

Mccartin can’t jump and he is undersized as a key forward
Compared to jack reiwoldt who is undersized but can leap same with caddy
Constanta
Rioli they can all jump

Bruce is the only player who can do this on our list and it’s

Membrey has a fair jump as well.

[Drew21]

The issue is not the flat hands. It’s the fact that we get out marked in contests all over the ground

Richmond’s players all have great vertical leaps which allows them to contest even when caught behind and out of position

Mccartin can’t jump and he is undersized as a key forward
Compared to jack reiwoldt who is undersized but can leap same with caddy
Constanta
Rioli they can all jump

Bruce is the only player who can do this on our list and it’s

Membrey has a fair jump as well.

Membrey has a good standing vertical
I’m talking about running and leaping on the back of players when caught behind to cause a contest

Which is important considering the the poor delivery

[bigcarl]

Paddy shouldn’t be a walk-up start anyway. It’s got to be decided on merit, not draft position.

I have Bruce, Membrey and Marshall ahead of him.

Bruce just adds that physicality and leadership that we lacked so badly nearly all season; Marshall looks potentially a very special player; and Membrey is our most consistent avenue to goal.

As it stands, our front-half woes are a combination of crap delivery, crap forwards and a crap game plan that sees our guys consistently outnumbered in a crowded space. Then we get smashed on the counter attack.

Richo and the coaches need to make it a priority to fix it as you are not going to win games if you cannot score. We need to move the ball much quicker and more directly and we need to make the opportunities count.

[Yorkeys]

Excellent post as usual rogerfox. Poor Richo, someone should show him vision of even Rance trying to consistently spoil a fast flat kick in front of a forward. Relying on the bounce of the ball for goals is so Alan in Wonderland. And he took Battle to the game to instruct him? mercy, don't we have minders.

[Impatient Sainter]

What you have all raised above is just more examples proving that Richo has NFI. He is a channelled thinker and doesnt see the whole picture of games well at all. He will not take risks or back in the younger players in key positions. This is all compounded by his and clubs inability to properly prepare players in a competitive training environment. To put it plainy the guy is the simpleton in AFL coaching ranks.

[samoht]

Is it 100% the "clueless" coach's fault, or is it the lack of A grade cattle plus the many injuries, where it's become difficult to make game plans, even the good ones, work?

I mean the "great" coach Mick Malthouse etc. for instance, after he won premierships and ended up at Carlton, what happened to his brilliant game plan at Carlton - if it's 100% the coach?
You can argue he had a lousy game plan at Carlton - because nothing was working for him, and he actually looked "clueless".

Game plans work when you have the competent cattle to carry them out. Full Stop. This should be obvious.

There are factors that we need to take into account - and we had a lot of injuries this year, an unsettled lineup and too many of the same type players, plus the retirement of good players and leaders- our recruiters haven't recruited with a plan over the years - and we have no A graders with elite skills. This could also explain where we're at - I actually think it better explains it.

A "great" coach doesn't exist in reality - and great game plans can't work, until you have everything else. You need fit and competent A grade cattle, above all - and we certainly didn't have that this year.

So, with all these factors, it's hard to quantify how good or bad Richo's coaching and game plan is. The parallel might be that he's Mick Malthouse at the Carlton stage, for all we know.

[rodgerfox]

Paddy shouldn’t be a walk-up start anyway. It’s got to be decided on merit, not draft position.

I have Bruce, Membrey and Marshall ahead of him.

But you're not thinking like Richo.

I'd 110% guarantee that the reason McCartin gets picked, is not because he's a no. 1 pick - but instead because he's doing exactly what the coach is asking him to do. And that almost certainly is to bring the ball to the front of the pack, instead of marking the f****** thing.

We all know it's not effective for us a team, and we all know that it's wrecking McCartin's natural instinct as a footballer.

He's being turned into an unskilled battler who doesn't remember how to actually play football.

[rodgerfox]

Is it 100% the "clueless" coach's fault, or is it the lack of A grade cattle plus the many injuries, where it's become difficult to make game plans, even the good ones, work?

I mean the "great" coach Mick Malthouse etc. for instance, after he won premierships and ended up at Carlton, what happened to his brilliant game plan at Carlton - if it's 100% the coach?
You can argue he had a lousy game plan at Carlton - because nothing was working for him, and he actually looked "clueless".

Game plans work when you have the competent cattle to carry them out. Full Stop. This should be obvious.

There are factors that we need to take into account - and we had a lot of injuries this year, an unsettled lineup and too many of the same type players, plus the retirement of good players and leaders- our recruiters haven't recruited with a plan over the years - and we have no A graders with elite skills. This could also explain where we're at - I actually think it better explains it.

A "great" coach doesn't exist in reality - and great game plans can't work, until you have everything else. You need fit and competent A grade cattle, above all - and we certainly didn't have that this year.

So, with all these factors, it's hard to quantify how good or bad Richo's coaching and game plan is. The parallel might be that he's Mick Malthouse at the Carlton stage, for all we know.

The same strategy failed us badly last year too though. And the year prior.


I'd argue that it would fail Richmond too if they didn't have the best player in the comp, the best captain in the comp, the best defender in the comp, and the best forward in the comp in career best form.


The only time the 'bomb it in to the hot spot' works to the point of it winning you games of football, is when you completely and utterly dominate your opposition through the midfield and generate enormous Inside 50 numbers.

That's precisely why we beat the s*** out of really weak teams, and why teams we can't dominate entirely beat the s*** out of us.


It's just such a terribly flawed, and outdated strategy.

[Scollop]

The head coach runs the show. The only bloke responsible for the way his players play and the 'system' or gameplan if you like, is the head coach (especially after 5 years at the helm). There are no excuses in an industry that is based on winning. How long do you need to see that Richo does not have what it takes? If results and a win loss ratio are not proof, perhaps the murmurring from Roo in the media this year and the murmurring that some of our best players want out is.


Richo's main problem imo is that he is weak. This causes issues in the playing group and it is evident in our results this year. There are issues permeating throughout the club. Who the hell thinks we can just tinker with the playing list and Richo will start winning? We are 3rd in disposals and guys like Seb Ross have been allowed to continue to get 30 possessions per game without much of an impact on score involvements. Why is that?

If my cattle don't do as I tell them I crack the whip and get the kelpies to lead them where they're supposed to go. If my cattle don't want to listen I'll send them to the abattoir.

[barneyboyz]

Is it 100% the "clueless" coach's fault, or is it the lack of A grade cattle plus the many injuries, where it's become difficult to make game plans, even the good ones, work?

I mean the "great" coach Mick Malthouse etc. for instance, after he won premierships and ended up at Carlton, what happened to his brilliant game plan at Carlton - if it's 100% the coach?
You can argue he had a lousy game plan at Carlton - because nothing was working for him, and he actually looked "clueless".

Game plans work when you have the competent cattle to carry them out. Full Stop. This should be obvious.

There are factors that we need to take into account - and we had a lot of injuries this year, an unsettled lineup and too many of the same type players, plus the retirement of good players and leaders- our recruiters haven't recruited with a plan over the years - and we have no A graders with elite skills. This could also explain where we're at - I actually think it better explains it.

A "great" coach doesn't exist in reality - and great game plans can't work, until you have everything else. You need fit and competent A grade cattle, above all - and we certainly didn't have that this year.

So, with all these factors, it's hard to quantify how good or bad Richo's coaching and game plan is. The parallel might be that he's Mick Malthouse at the Carlton stage, for all we know.

I agree with all that you say, and Milkshake got the arse too...so should Alan

[samoht]

The head coach runs the show. The only bloke responsible for the way his players play and the 'system' or gameplan if you like, is the head coach (especially after 5 years at the helm). There are no excuses in an industry that is based on winning. How long do you need to see that Richo does not have what it takes? If results and a win loss ratio are not proof, perhaps the murmurring from Roo in the media this year and the murmurring that some of our best players want out is.


Richo's main problem imo is that he is weak. This causes issues in the playing group and it is evident in our results this year. There are issues permeating throughout the club. Who the hell thinks we can just tinker with the playing list and Richo will start winning? We are 3rd in disposals and guys like Seb Ross have been allowed to continue to get 30 possessions per game without much of an impact on score involvements. Why is that?

If my cattle don't do as I tell them I crack the whip and get the kelpies to lead them where they're supposed to go. If my cattle don't want to listen I'll send them to the abattoir.

What show did multiple premiership-winning head coach Malthouse run after he replaced Ratten at Carlton? Why were carlton pathetic with such a proven coach?
If you have a look at our list, we are probably where we should be at, based on talent.
We have good ball winners, like Ross and Steven who are a mixed bag - their kicking lets them down too often at times; it's too inconsistent. They might create a goal and then undo their good work by turning it over, and we get scored against.
Our cattle is the run-of-the-mill type, not Wagyu.

[takeaway]

I don't watch AFL 360, but going by the OP I assume Richo stated our game plan for 2019 was to bomb it in and get "grubby goals" like Richmond did in the last final, flat handing to the ground and manic pressure by the forwards.

Did he state that was our central game plan? If so, that is concerning. I doubt it. More likely it is a way of getting goals, and Richmond do better than most, when there are no other options but to bomb the ball to a dangerous spot, which would happen at least a dozen times each game, for every team. Clarkson certainly admired the skill of Richmond being able to do it, and every team would have similar tactics when no forward target can be found. Riewoldt and Roughhead are very good at getting the ball down to the advantage of the small forwards.

Even good teams can't hit a target every time because the backs have had time to get back, or it just has to be hacked into the forward line. Due to a dysfunctional, and injured, forward line this year Saints had to do that more often than desirable. Hopefully with more forwards fit, and more confidence, the forward line can be more functional next year, and we can hit leading forwards, and minimise high kicks in. Still need a plan for bombing though, and the method outlined sounds fair enough to me.

[samoht]

There's no easy fix - years and years of poor recruiting means we can only rebuild with smart, targeted recruiting, IMHO.

[Scollop]

Malthouse was hired by Carlton because as a club they thought they were prime to be a contender and he had the systems and tactics and the experience as a premiership coach. He only spent 2 and a half years there. If we had any brains we would have hired him instead of Watters, but that's another topic. Anyhow, Richo has had double the time and we just finished 16th.

Richo was hired to be the head coach in charge of our rebuild. He's been there 5 years and the growth and development of most of pur players has stagnated. What I saw this year and for a few matches in late 2017 (even with Roo and Joey in the team) was a distinct lack of cohesion and systems. This has snowballed in 2018 into more and more losses and horrendous displays of Saints footy like we saw on Good Friday.

The lack of self belief permeates and destroys any confidence that was left in this group. The scapegoating of players and the talk about the group meeding experienced leaders to replace current team members by Richo and the party line by some other admin people blaming the skills of the players was pathetic. Richo and this CEO and admin have been in charge for 5 years.

Guys like Membrey, Roberton, Steele and Carlisle chose to come to St Kilda for more opportunities or because they weren't happy at their previous club. Where is the evidence that Richo has had an influence on these guys development, their growth and learning or their motivation? I personally cannot credit Richo with the development or the consistency in performance from these guys.

[Linton Lodger]

I had a good footy conversation with a mate the other day, he had an interesting perspective.

He's not a Saints man, he's a madly passionate Geelong fan (and not a big fan of Chris Scott). He's a student of the game and played at a decent level (he played against Ross Lyon which he described as terrifying), he is friendly with many former players through business (including Stan Alves).

He's got a soft spot for the Saints (ironically he loves Jack Steven) and has watched all our games this year, so it was interesting to hear his perspective.

His view was that our gameplan was fine and that our transition systems were as good as anyone's. Execution was our issue. His assessment was that we dropped 3 or 4 games on the back of a total of about 6 unforced skill errors. We discussed the recent Hawthorn game and he pointed out that our gameplan in that game was the same as it had been all year, the difference been that our execution was good. His view was that there may be nothing wrong with Richo (not necessarily my view), however he did point out that the skill errors were either on the Coach or the Assistant(s) and that whomever was responsible had to go.

This reminded me of an article Chris Judd wrote about us a couple of weeks ago. In that article Judd asserted that the three Assistants we'd moved on: Welsh, Gilbee and McPhee, weren't of AFL standard!

Lethlean has been there since January, whether or not he's formally reviewed the Coaching position, I'm sure he's formed an informed view.

[barneyboyz]

Malthouse was hired by Carlton because as a club they thought they were prime to be a contender and he had the systems and tactics and the experience as a premiership coach. He only spent 2 and a half years there. If we had any brains we would have hired him instead of Watters, but that's another topic. Anyhow, Richo has had double the time and we just finished 16th.

Richo was hired to be the head coach in charge of our rebuild. He's been there 5 years and the growth and development of most of pur players has stagnated. What I saw this year and for a few matches in late 2017 (even with Roo and Joey in the team) was a distinct lack of cohesion and systems. This has snowballed in 2018 into more and more losses and horrendous displays of Saints footy like we saw on Good Friday.

The lack of self belief permeates and destroys any confidence that was left in this group. The scapegoating of players and the talk about the group meeding experienced leaders to replace current team members by Richo and the party line by some other admin people blaming the skills of the players was pathetic. Richo and this CEO and admin have been in charge for 5 years.

Guys like Membrey, Roberton, Steele and Carlisle chose to come to St Kilda for more opportunities or because they weren't happy at their previous club. Where is the evidence that Richo has had an influence on these guys development, their growth and learning or their motivation? I personally cannot credit Richo with the development or the consistency in performance from these guys.

With all due respect, I do believe that Robbo and Steele are better players now, and the scapegoat talk about skills would be fairly right too. But in fairness to Richo, he wasn't here when many of our butchers started.

[Impatient Sainter]

Is it 100% the "clueless" coach's fault, or is it the lack of A grade cattle plus the many injuries, where it's become difficult to make game plans, even the good ones, work?

I mean the "great" coach Mick Malthouse etc. for instance, after he won premierships and ended up at Carlton, what happened to his brilliant game plan at Carlton - if it's 100% the coach?
You can argue he had a lousy game plan at Carlton - because nothing was working for him, and he actually looked "clueless".

Game plans work when you have the competent cattle to carry them out. Full Stop. This should be obvious.

There are factors that we need to take into account - and we had a lot of injuries this year, an unsettled lineup and too many of the same type players, plus the retirement of good players and leaders- our recruiters haven't recruited with a plan over the years - and we have no A graders with elite skills. This could also explain where we're at - I actually think it better explains it.

A "great" coach doesn't exist in reality - and great game plans can't work, until you have everything else. You need fit and competent A grade cattle, above all - and we certainly didn't have that this year.

So, with all these factors, it's hard to quantify how good or bad Richo's coaching and game plan is. The parallel might be that he's Mick Malthouse at the Carlton stage, for all we know.

I totally disagree.

Richardson was one of the clubs list management panel and had a say in their recruiting and drafting. He did inherit a declining list but has done nothing in terms of development and bringing on the list he has had. He has played older unsuited players to the detriment of list and player development.

They are the worst skilled group in the competition which is created at a training level. They are the least aggressive and play systems that were superseded 10 years ago. They have a shallow self belief and the younger players get dropped after one average game. Is it any wonder they lack confidence. All the afore mentioned is the responsiblity of the coach/s. Richardson.

The guy is devoid of any excitement or interesting motivational traits.

Because of the lack of excitement and brand created by Richardson, the club has failed to attract any significant players. Its his job to manage his assistants, the players and the playing list and he has failed the club completely.

[Saints43]

His view was that there may be nothing wrong with Richo (not necessarily my view), however he did point out that the skill errors were either on the Coach or the Assistant(s) and that whomever was responsible had to go.

Richardson engineers the game so that we have Geary as our loose defender.
He selects poorly skilled senior battlers over more highly skilled youngsters.

Your mate is right. Whoever is responsible for the skill errors has to go.

[SaintPav]

Same old same old..Richo is really beginning to give me the sh.ts.

Take some advice Richo, you muppet...

[DJ Higgins]

Too be honest everyone sucks. It's everyone's fault from the coaching staff to the players. Now we have covered let's look ahead with some hope. Coaching staff have been changed, 7 delisting so far and more likely to.come, lots of games into young guys this year, #4 pick may get rankine. Smith or a king otherwise, and one year closer to rich is departure.

[saintadamski]

The head coach runs the show. The only bloke responsible for the way his players play and the 'system' or gameplan if you like, is the head coach (especially after 5 years at the helm). There are no excuses in an industry that is based on winning. How long do you need to see that Richo does not have what it takes? If results and a win loss ratio are not proof, perhaps the murmurring from Roo in the media this year and the murmurring that some of our best players want out is.


Richo's main problem imo is that he is weak. This causes issues in the playing group and it is evident in our results this year. There are issues permeating throughout the club. Who the hell thinks we can just tinker with the playing list and Richo will start winning? We are 3rd in disposals and guys like Seb Ross have been allowed to continue to get 30 possessions per game without much of an impact on score involvements. Why is that?

If my cattle don't do as I tell them I crack the whip and get the kelpies to lead them where they're supposed to go. If my cattle don't want to listen I'll send them to the abattoir.

What show did multiple premiership-winning head coach Malthouse run after he replaced Ratten at Carlton? Why were carlton pathetic with such a proven coach?
If you have a look at our list, we are probably where we should be at, based on talent.
We have good ball winners, like Ross and Steven who are a mixed bag - their kicking lets them down too often at times; it's too inconsistent. They might create a goal and then undo their good work by turning it over, and we get scored against.
Our cattle is the run-of-the-mill type, not Wagyu.

Completely agree with you samoht

If everything was the coaches doing, then Carlton would have won multiple premierships under Malthouse - a multiple premiership winning coach
If everything was the coaches doing, then why did Geelong win a premiership in 2011 in Scott's FIRST YEAR THERE!....only to fall away after the better PLAYERS left the building.
If everything is the coach, how did Hardwick...who was 80% out the door, and couldn't win a final, wn a premiership within 12 months....after recruiting the likes of Prestia, Nankervis, Caddy etc

If anything, these examples show that it's the list that counts more than the coach.

So according to 'the coach is everything' argument, Michael Jordan was one of the greatest basketball players of all time - due to the Chicago Bulls coach Phil Jackson!!!?? The word Bulls.... is definitely in the answer

The coach can guide, but it's the players that execute and are born with talent.

Our list is incredibly poor. Our recruitment is incredibly poor....we have very few truly talented players.

Clarko, Malthouse, Hardwick would get no where with our list!

Phrases like "The coach runs the show" and "Players play for the coach" are the most absurd statements I've ever heard.

[spert]

The head coach runs the show. The only bloke responsible for the way his players play and the 'system' or gameplan if you like, is the head coach (especially after 5 years at the helm). There are no excuses in an industry that is based on winning. How long do you need to see that Richo does not have what it takes? If results and a win loss ratio are not proof, perhaps the murmurring from Roo in the media this year and the murmurring that some of our best players want out is.


Richo's main problem imo is that he is weak. This causes issues in the playing group and it is evident in our results this year. There are issues permeating throughout the club. Who the hell thinks we can just tinker with the playing list and Richo will start winning? We are 3rd in disposals and guys like Seb Ross have been allowed to continue to get 30 possessions per game without much of an impact on score involvements. Why is that?

If my cattle don't do as I tell them I crack the whip and get the kelpies to lead them where they're supposed to go. If my cattle don't want to listen I'll send them to the abattoir.

What show did multiple premiership-winning head coach Malthouse run after he replaced Ratten at Carlton? Why were carlton pathetic with such a proven coach?
If you have a look at our list, we are probably where we should be at, based on talent.
We have good ball winners, like Ross and Steven who are a mixed bag - their kicking lets them down too often at times; it's too inconsistent. They might create a goal and then undo their good work by turning it over, and we get scored against.
Our cattle is the run-of-the-mill type, not Wagyu.

Completely agree with you samoht

If everything was the coaches doing, then Carlton would have won multiple premierships under Malthouse - a multiple premiership winning coach
If everything was the coaches doing, then why did Geelong win a premiership in 2011 in Scott's FIRST YEAR THERE!....only to fall away after the better players left the building.
If everything is the coach, how did Hardwick...who was 80% out the door, and couldn't win a final, wn a premiership within 12 months....after recruiting the likes of Prestia, Nankervis, Caddy etc

If anything, these examples show that it's the list that counts more than the coach.

So according to 'the coach is everything' argument, Michael Jordan was one of the greatest basketball players of all time - due to the Chicago Bulls coach Phil Jackson!!!?? The word Bulls.... is definitely in the answer

The coach can guide, but it's the players that execute and are born with talent.

Our list is incredibly poor. Our recruitment is incredibly poor....we have very few truly talented players.

Clarko, Malthouse, Hardwick would get no where with our list!

Phrases like "The coach runs the show" and "Players play for the coach" are the most absurd statements I've ever heard.

Sack the coach- he is out of his league basically.