How many indigenous saints players can you name.

[saynta]

We have four at the moment but plenty more havenplayed for the saints overbthebyears.

All are deserving of recognition.

[Scollop]

I'll name one that didn't play a game and got delisted after only one year when Ross Lyon was in charge. We rookied him in 2008. Pretty ironic that Tosser was after a similar type in Lovett just a year after this player left the Saints

He was from the Tiwi Islands form memory. Kicked 27 goals in 3 games in the State league and came to the notice of all AFL clubs before we recruited him. They have pretty high humidity so he would have been right at home with a greasy slippery footy. Grand Final day in 2009 was a bit wet wasn't?

I know it went against Lyon's philosophy at the time and we had young guys like Tom Lynch who hardly played and he went on to be an All Australian with Adelaide, but could you imagine a fast clean handling indigenous kid playing in a Grand Final and emulating the likes of Cyril and Willie and Liam. Instead, Tossco preferred hard bodied players that guarded space well.

Ross Tangatalum

[saynta]

I'll name one that didn't play a game and got delisted after only one year when Ross Lyon was in charge. We rookied him in 2008. Pretty ironic that Tosser was after a similar type in Lovett just a year after this player left the Saints

He was from the Tiwi Islands form memory. Kicked 27 goals in 3 games in the State league and came to the notice of all AFL clubs before we recruited him. They have pretty high humidity so he would have been right at home with a greasy slippery footy. Grand Final day in 2009 was a bit wet wasn't?

I know it went against Lyon's philosophy at the time and we had young guys like Tom Lynch who hardly played and he went on to be an All Australian with Adelaide, but could you imagine a fast clean handling indigenous kid playing in a Grand Final and emulating the likes of Cyril and Willie and Liam. Instead, Tossco preferred hard bodied players that guarded space well.

Ross Tangatalum

Good post. Kid was never given a chance as you say.

[Sainter_Dad]

Ross Tangatalum

Here is an example of a truly humble person - I was getting the whole team to sign a piece of the seating at Moorabbin while he was a rookie, and when I asked him - his reply was "Why??? I am not a player." I said to him that he was a rookie and that made him part of the team - he seemed stoked - such a humble and quietly spoken guy!

And on your question - I believe that it is less than 20 that have played for the R, W & B although some may have played for R, Y & B

[Joffa Burns]

A ruckman (from Tassie) if I remember correctly - Bob Jones.
Always was a fan of Russell Jeffrey from Jerilderee, I think.

I'll leave the more high profile players for others to name.

[saynta]

A ruckman (from Tassie) if I remember correctly - Bob Jones.
Always was a fan of Russell Jeffrey from Jerilderee, I think.

I'll leave the more high profile players for others to name.

Bob Jones is Carlton's Liam Jone's dad.

Phil Narkle, Robbie Muir, Greg, and Gilbert McAdam and of course the brilliant Nicky Winmar. Jimmy Krakouer. Nick Winmar and Dale Kickett.

There are a few more that I could name but I will leave it to other.

[Sainter_Dad]

A ruckman (from Tassie) if I remember correctly - Bob Jones.
Always was a fan of Russell Jeffrey from Jerilderee, I think.

I'll leave the more high profile players for others to name.

Bob Jones is Carlton's Liam Jone's dad.

Phil Narkle, Robbie Muir, Greg, and Gilbert McAdam and of course the brilliant Nicky Winmar. Jimmy Krakouer. Nick Winmar and Dale Kickett.

As the lady behind us used to always remind us - but not in a good way - Raph! and of course X!

Do you get double points for Phil Narkle - 1 for Phil and one for Phil's helmet???

[IluvHarvey]

Some that haven’t been named yet
Sean Charles
Alan Murray
Gavin Mitchell
Koby Stevens (?)
Clarke Brothers

[Sainter_Dad]

5 left

[saynta]

Terry Milera.

On my count that is 19 so far.

[IluvHarvey]

Oh and Robbie Muir
Someone Campbell who came from Sydney
Terry Millera
And I’m out of others

[Sainter_Dad]

Full list is:

Fred Campbell
Sean Charles
Raphael Clarke
Xavier Clarke
Eric Clarke
Russell Jeffrey
Bob Jones
Dale Kickett
Jim Krakouer
Greg McAdam
Gilbert McAdam
Terry Milera
Gavin Mitchell
Robert Muir
Allan Murray
Phil Narkle
Koby Stevens
Jim Wandin
Nicholas Winmar
Nicky Winmar

Edit: Updated to include Koby Stevens

[saynta]

Oh and Robbie Muir
Someone Campbell who came from Sydney
Terry Millera
And I’m out of others

Fred Campbell. From Darwin via Sydney . Played half a dozen games in 2000.

[IluvHarvey]

Full list is:

Fred Campbell
Sean Charles
Raphael Clarke
Xavier Clarke
Eric Clarke
Russell Jeffrey
Bob Jones
Dale Kickett
Jim Krakouer
Greg McAdam
Gilbert McAdam
Terry Milera
Gavin Mitchell
Robert Muir
Allan Murray
Phil Narkle
Jim Wandin
Nicholas Winmar
Nicky Winmar

Add Koby Stevens to that list.

[IluvHarvey]

Oh and Robbie Muir
Someone Campbell who came from Sydney
Terry Millera
And I’m out of others

Fred Campbell. From Darwin via Sydney . Played half a dozen games in 2000.

That’s him!

[saynta]

Full list is:

Fred Campbell
Sean Charles
Raphael Clarke
Xavier Clarke
Eric Clarke
Russell Jeffrey
Bob Jones
Dale Kickett
Jim Krakouer
Greg McAdam
Gilbert McAdam
Terry Milera
Gavin Mitchell
Robert Muir
Allan Murray
Phil Narkle
Jim Wandin
Nicholas Winmar
Nicky Winmar

Ross Tangatalum. Didn't played first grade though.

Jim Wandin played about 20 games in 52/53 and was from Healesville.

I will take your word he was indigenous.

Add the current four and that's an even two dozen.

Oops, we have forgotten Koby. So that's 25.

Some mighty fine footballers in that lot.

[Sainter_Dad]

Was anyone aware that Sir Doug Nicholls never played for Carlton seniors (he played reserves) - he was forced to leave without playing due to Racism???

And I apologise for leaving out Koby - my list was done before the him and the current players were in the team (I think)

[saynta]

Was anyone aware that Sir Doug Nicholls never played for Carlton seniors (he played reserves) - he was forced to leave without playing due to Racism???

Yeah, I think I knew that. Wasn't allowed to shower with the other players either.

[IluvHarvey]

Was anyone aware that Sir Doug Nicholls never played for Carlton seniors (he played reserves) - he was forced to leave without playing due to Racism???

Yeah, I think I knew that. Wasn't allowed to shower with the other players either.

My god! How horrific.

[IluvHarvey]

Society has come along way, but still miles to go.

[saynta]

Was anyone aware that Sir Doug Nicholls never played for Carlton seniors (he played reserves) - he was forced to leave without playing due to Racism???

Yeah, I think I knew that. Wasn't allowed to shower with the other players either.

My god! How horrific.

Thankfully we have come a long way since those days thanks mainly to Michael Long and Cuz.

[saintsRrising]

Jim Wandin played about 20 games in 52/53 and was from Healesville.

I will take your word he was indigenous.

https://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-05- ... us-players

The very first indigenous footballer to line up for St Kilda was Jim Wandin in 1952.

Wandin was a senior figure in the Victorian indigenous community at the time as the ngurungaeta (head man) of the Wurundjeri people.

Also : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wandin

His father, Jarlo Wandoon, tried to enlist for World War I, but was rejected due to being an Aboriginal. When he attempted to enlist under his whitefella name, James Wandin, he was accepted into the army and served in France and is listed under that name on the honour roll in the Healesville RSL. On returning home, Jarlo Wandoon had to get permission from the police to visit his mother, was escorted onto Coranderrk, and was only allowed half an hour with her before he was sent to off to the Lake Tyers Mission in Gippsland.

[saynta]

Jim Wandin played about 20 games in 52/53 and was from Healesville.

I will take your word he was indigenous.

https://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-05- ... us-players

The very first indigenous footballer to line up for St Kilda was Jim Wandin in 1952.

Wandin was a senior figure in the Victorian indigenous community at the time as the ngurungaeta (head man) of the Wurundjeri people.

Also : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wandin

His father, Jarlo Wandoon, tried to enlist for World War I, but was rejected due to being an Aboriginal. When he attempted to enlist under his whitefella name, James Wandin, he was accepted into the army and served in France and is listed under that name on the honour roll in the Healesville RSL. On returning home, Jarlo Wandoon had to get permission from the police to visit his mother, was escorted onto Coranderrk, and was only allowed half an hour with her before he was sent to off to the Lake Tyers Mission in Gippsland.

Terrible and shameful.

[Dave McNamara]

Was anyone aware that Sir Doug Nicholls never played for Carlton seniors (he played reserves) - he was forced to leave without playing due to Racism???

Yeah, I think I knew that. Wasn't allowed to shower with the other players either.

My god! How horrific.

Heard a couple of stories re all this, so happy to stand corrected if there are any ex-AFL players who have heard some more details. But anyway, here’s what I’ve heard...



Pastor Sir Doug Nicholls, The Cosa Nostra club, Fitzroy, The Buntons and St Kilda:

At Carlscum the young Doug Nicholls was basically told that ‘this is Carlscum, and there are no black bastards here’. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Nicholls The Cosa Nostra club did officially apologise for his treatment a couple of years ago. Only took them half a century-odd.

Hence he went to Fitzroy. (Anyone remember Fitzroy...?)

At Fitzroy, Haydon Bunton reportedly noticed him changing on his own, away from the other players.

(Haydon Bunton Snr, the league’s first triple Brownlow Medallist. Before winning number three, he was tied for the lead as the winner of the most league B&F medals with a bloke who used to kick the footy a bloody long way for our Saints. )

So Bunton went over to ask Nicholls why he was changing away from the other players. Nicholls reportedly told him that it was because they said that he smelt.

Bunton then walked back across the changerooms, collected his gear, and moved it to next to Nicholls. From then on he always got changed alongside Doug Nicholls.

Sir Doug Nicholls' family fight for award

TRAILBLAZER Sir Doug Nicholls fought injustice for much of his life, and his family is now fighting to rectify a perceived football injustice against Nicholls himself.

Descendants of the late Nicholls – the face of this week's AFL Indigenous Round – are so exasperated by his exclusion from the Australian Football Hall of Fame that they have vowed to create a hall of fame for indigenous players – with or without AFL involvement.

Nicholls' absence from football's elite company has long been debated. In 2008 Melbourne writer Michael Winkler argued on AFL.com.au that Nicholls wasn't only deserving of induction but that he was the greatest man to play league football, and perhaps even our greatest Australian.

Nicholls, who died in 1988 aged 81, was one of the game's most exciting players with his speed, leap, courage and skills.

After being subjected to blatant racism during a trial with Carlton, he became a star wingman with VFA club Northcote before playing 54 games for Fitzroy and two for Victoria.

Off the field he became virtual royalty. Among other honours, 'Pastor Doug' was the first Aboriginal to have been knighted (for "distinguished services to the advancement of the Aboriginal people"), and the only indigenous Australian to reach an office as lofty as Governor of South Australia.

Nicholls also organised Aboriginal All Star games during and after World War II, and later became the inaugural chairman of the National Aboriginal Sports Foundation, which staged national titles for football (and other sports) and even sent an Australian indigenous team to Papua New Guinea in 1973.

In recent times the AFL's Indigenous All Stars have played against AFL clubs for the Pastor Sir Douglas Nicholls Cup.


Nicholls' grandsons Gary Murray and Jason Tamiru and great-grandson, former Essendon player Nathan Lovett-Murray (Murray's son) believe the decision to overlook Nicholls for Hall of fame induction is a glaring omission.

Murray says he has twice formally nominated his grandfather without success.

"He didn't play a lot of games but the criteria covers achievements on and off the field," Murray told AFL.com.au.

"By the criteria, some members of the Hall of Fame who were great players shouldn't actually be there.

"So it should go the other way as well, where a player like my grandfather mightn't have played as much but they have been great contributors to society. No one matches his standards off the field.

"It's as plain as the nose on your face that he should be in. So why hasn't the penny dropped for the AFL?"

The Hall of Fame selection committee is charged with considering candidates "on the basis of record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship and character", with the length of service being "a consideration only and does not determine eligibility".

Tamiru says: "I think the AFL will eventually catch up."

One of Nicholls' most public supporters is the AFL's head of diversity Jason Mifsud, who concedes he is "openly biased on two fronts: as a distant relation of Nicholls' and as an Aboriginal person".

"Emotion aside, Sir Doug's contribution to the game and the community is unsurpassed," he said.

"This is a story our game deserves to not only know, but be immensely proud of. It's different but not dissimilar to the Jackie Robinson story (in Major League Baseball). Their legacies are enduring beyond reproach and require celebration unparalleled to any other."

Mifsud wouldn't be drawn on whether Nicholls should become a Hall of Famer, but said he should be honoured in various ways, revealing there has been preliminary discussion about introducing an award in Nicholls' name that recognises people who make significant contributions to the AFL's indigenous programs.

Mifsud also believes a statue of Nicholls should be erected at the MCG. (There is a statue honouring Sir Doug and Lady Gladys Nicholls in Melbourne's Parliament Gardens).

Regardless, Nicholls' family will forge ahead with "long overdue" plans to establish what could become known as the Marngrook Hall of Fame, with potential for the first induction to take place in Grand Final week.

They are looking for premises that would also display exhibits relating to Nicholls and the history of indigenous football.

Though open-minded to other options, Murray says the logical location would be the Thornbury headquarters of the Aborigines Advancement League (set up by Nicholls and other elders in 1957), which adjoins Sir Douglas Nicholls Oval, home ground of the Fitzroy Stars indigenous team.

Mifsud discouraged any independent moves to establish an indigenous hall of fame, saying the concept was best explored in collaboration with the AFL.

Nicholls' daughter Pam Pedersen will talk about her father, and his claims for Hall of Fame induction, on The Marngrook Footy Show on NITV on Thursday night.

FACT FILE
SIR DOUGLAS RALPH NICHOLLS

Born: December 9, 1906, at Cummeragunga Aboriginal Mission, NSW.

Died: June 4, 1988, at Mooroopna, Victoria.

VFL/AFL: Fitzroy 1932-37 (54 games, 2 goals); represented Victoria (2 games); 3rd Fitzroy best and fairest 1934.

VFA (now VFL): Northcote 1927-31 and 1938-39; represented VFA (2 games); 3rd Recorder Cup (VFA best and fairest) 1931; Northcote best and fairest 1929, 1930; Northcote premiership 1929; Northcote coach 1947.

Post-football: Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order (1977); Knight Bachelor (1972); Governor of South Australia (1976–77); OBE (1968); MBE (1957).

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-05-29/ ... fame-fight

Years later when Haydon Bunton had retired as a player, in quite a coup, our Saintas’ signed him up as coach, and also his son Haydon Bunton Jnr as a player for us. (HB Jnr was also a damn good footballer.)

Tragically, neither came to us.

HB Snr was killed in a car crash, and HB Jnr was understandably grief stricken.

[Scollop]

Jim Wandin played about 20 games in 52/53 and was from Healesville.

I will take your word he was indigenous.

https://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-05- ... us-players

The very first indigenous footballer to line up for St Kilda was Jim Wandin in 1952.

Wandin was a senior figure in the Victorian indigenous community at the time as the ngurungaeta (head man) of the Wurundjeri people.

Also : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Wandinm

His father, Jarlo Wandoon, tried to enlist for World War I, but was rejected due to being an Aboriginal. When he attempted to enlist under his whitefella name, James Wandin, he was accepted into the army and served in France and is listed under that name on the honour roll in the Healesville RSL. On returning home, Jarlo Wandoon had to get permission from the police to visit his mother, was escorted onto Coranderrk, and was only allowed half an hour with her before he was sent to off to the Lake Tyers Mission in Gippsland.

Terrible and shameful.

It is terrible and shameful. What upsets me is that most of us went to school and none of this was ever spoken of. It's as if it didn't happen. I think we've only just started to come to terms with our shameful history in the last 25-30 years. I read a news article on abc today;

"Disputes over land led to acts of resistance by Aboriginal people and open massacres of Aboriginal men, women and children by settlers. The exact number of Indigenous people killed in these conflicts is unknown, but historian Henry Reynolds has estimated the toll runs to tens of thousands."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-28/ ... n/11108480

"Until Australia is prepared to swallow that part of our history then we don't have a conversation."