The Fat Lady

[st.byron]

Bevo turned the Dogs around from a basket case to a flag inside 2 years. Fagan has taken the Lions from wooden spooners to top 4 in 18 months. The wheel can turn quickly. Fix the culture, fix performance. It starts with leadership (on & off field). Must get this next coaching appointment right or we are screwed for another decade.

Can’t underestimate the impact of genuine leadership. Someone who inspires and unites. Someone who does that just by their presence. You can have all the tactics, strategies and ‘speak’ in the world, but genuine leadership goes beyond that. It’s something we haven’t had for at least six years.

[Dis Believer]

Bevo turned the Dogs around from a basket case to a flag inside 2 years. Fagan has taken the Lions from wooden spooners to top 4 in 18 months. The wheel can turn quickly. Fix the culture, fix performance. It starts with leadership (on & off field). Must get this next coaching appointment right or we are screwed for another decade.

Can’t underestimate the impact of genuine leadership. Someone who inspires and unites. Someone who does that just by their presence. You can have all the tactics, strategies and ‘speak’ in the world, but genuine leadership goes beyond that. It’s something we haven’t had for at least six years.

Correction, it's something we have not had since Joey and Roo departed.

[Life Long Saint]

Bevo turned the Dogs around from a basket case to a flag inside 2 years. Fagan has taken the Lions from wooden spooners to top 4 in 18 months. The wheel can turn quickly. Fix the culture, fix performance. It starts with leadership (on & off field). Must get this next coaching appointment right or we are screwed for another decade.

Can’t underestimate the impact of genuine leadership. Someone who inspires and unites. Someone who does that just by their presence. You can have all the tactics, strategies and ‘speak’ in the world, but genuine leadership goes beyond that. It’s something we haven’t had for at least six years.

Correction, it's something we have not had since Joey and Roo departed.

And another nail in Richo's coffin.
At least two years before Joey and Roo departed, we should have adopted the Grant Thomas rotating captaincy model to develop leaders.
It was clear that Geary, despite his short comings in foot skills, was a good leader so there was little point making him skipper until Roo retired. Also, we could have developed leadership skills in some of our more junior players. Just like GT did with Hayes, Ball, and Roo. If the scheme was allowed to continue then we would have seem BJ and Dal added to that list.

Imagine now if we had more around the ground leaders like Billings, Steele, Gresham, and Bruce - to name a few.

[st.byron]

Bevo turned the Dogs around from a basket case to a flag inside 2 years. Fagan has taken the Lions from wooden spooners to top 4 in 18 months. The wheel can turn quickly. Fix the culture, fix performance. It starts with leadership (on & off field). Must get this next coaching appointment right or we are screwed for another decade.

Can’t underestimate the impact of genuine leadership. Someone who inspires and unites. Someone who does that just by their presence. You can have all the tactics, strategies and ‘speak’ in the world, but genuine leadership goes beyond that. It’s something we haven’t had for at least six years.

Correction, it's something we have not had since Joey and Roo departed.

Yep but it’s not enough for the best leaders to also be players. The commander needs to provide that leadership as well. Otherwise he wont have the respect of the whole mob. Geelong is a great example of that. Solid well respected coach with great on-field leadership as well. I can’t stand Joel Duckwood, but he’s an excellent on-field leader to go with Scott’s coaching and mentoring. They’re doing it so well at Geelong.

[B.M]

It’s funny, Jarryn Geary was being lauded for his leadership earlier this season?!

But correct, Roo and Joey left gaping holes of elite senior talent and leadership. A baton that was supposed to be passed on to Goddard and McEvoy.

Not so sure who AR should have rotated the captaincy to? There was no one other than Geary that was captaincy material, and even then it was ridiculous having Jarryn captain when Nick was still in the team. If Nick wanted to give the captaincy up for his last year, Joey should have been Capt for that season with Jarryn VC

[Dis Believer]

Bevo turned the Dogs around from a basket case to a flag inside 2 years. Fagan has taken the Lions from wooden spooners to top 4 in 18 months. The wheel can turn quickly. Fix the culture, fix performance. It starts with leadership (on & off field). Must get this next coaching appointment right or we are screwed for another decade.

Can’t underestimate the impact of genuine leadership. Someone who inspires and unites. Someone who does that just by their presence. You can have all the tactics, strategies and ‘speak’ in the world, but genuine leadership goes beyond that. It’s something we haven’t had for at least six years.

Correction, it's something we have not had since Joey and Roo departed.

And another nail in Richo's coffin.
At least two years before Joey and Roo departed, we should have adopted the Grant Thomas rotating captaincy model to develop leaders.
It was clear that Geary, despite his short comings in foot skills, was a good leader so there was little point making him skipper until Roo retired. Also, we could have developed leadership skills in some of our more junior players. Just like GT did with Hayes, Ball, and Roo. If the scheme was allowed to continue then we would have seem BJ and Dal added to that list.

Imagine now if we had more around the ground leaders like Billings, Steele, Gresham, and Bruce - to name a few.

Can't say I disagree......

[B.M]

Do you really reckon Billings, Gresham, Bruce are captaincy material? Bruce was in the leadership group for one year, and was demoted thereafter. Billings is still to reach his potential, last year he was dropped for sub par performance. Gresham is still developing his game, doesn’t need the Captaincy to burden him.

Giving a player the captaincy, doesn’t make them great leaders... players with great leadership make great captains.

Hayes, Ball, Reiwoldt, Hamill had great leadership traits... even without the captaincy.

[Saintmatt]

It’s funny, Jarryn Geary was being lauded for his leadership earlier this season?!

But correct, Roo and Joey left gaping holes of elite senior talent and leadership. A baton that was supposed to be passed on to Goddard and McEvoy.

Not so sure who AR should have rotated the captaincy to? There was no one other than Geary that was captaincy material, and even then it was ridiculous having Jarryn captain when Nick was still in the team. If Nick wanted to give the captaincy up for his last year, Joey should have been Capt for that season with Jarryn VC

The obvious baton-receiver is Jack Steele. I'd like a new coach to come in and make a statement - make Jack Steele captain (not fussed about leadership group voting) and punt Ross & Newnes for a season to Sandy and elevate Langlands and B White instead.

Do something - preferably old skool. Nothing recently has moved the needed so try something. Anything.

[sunsaint]

as far as Im concerned AR has been a dead man walking for two seasons so I can now hold my breath till the announcement
which will be imminent and less life threatening & the fat lady wont even get out of breath
On much more personal note - I am wondering if I & others will get an apology from those called non supporter arm chair warrior and worse that opinions were not worthy of a place on this saints forum board

[B.M]

The day the announcement is made, we will all celebrate.

Optimism for next year, everything that’s wrong with the club is fixed!

Then when the losses pile up again, we can just blame the next coach.. he gets 12 months honeymoon. Then he becomes the problem again.

In Ross we trust

[shanegrambeau]

Richo has been a relatively good coach for St Kilda. Only 14 coaches in our history have done better statistically. 23 have done worse.
Fat Lady sings, Troll Me.

[minneapolis]

As far as I can remember only 2 of our senior coaches were hired subsequently by another club and both of them got us to a GF.

We have put the rest in the coaching ground. Is that what coach killers means?

[Yorkeys]

The term has wide attachment e.g. DMac's pass late in Saturday's game to shift play that had turnover goal on it all the way; Parker's 50 metre penalty because he can't switch on. Foot's sensitivities and ego - all coach killers.

Often we are the equivalent of the funeral home for coaches. Although Ross turned the tables. I think Ken Sheldon's jumper hold to get the player's attention is quite understandable, if PC unacceptable today. Unlike Cunnington's dog acts of smacking solar plexus(s).

Remember how that just takes the wind out of you, smarts a bit and is disabling - putting an opposition key player out of the game for 10 minutes off the ball can be a coach killer - in some sports its a penalty of being sent off for a while. From time to time the MRO and AFL judiciary panel should visit a gym and be given little jabs to the head and body to register what is insufficient force or merely worthy of a fine.

[SydneySainter]

as far as Im concerned AR has been a dead man walking for two seasons so I can now hold my breath till the announcement
which will be imminent and less life threatening & the fat lady wont even get out of breath
On much more personal note - I am wondering if I & others will get an apology from those called non supporter arm chair warrior and worse that opinions were not worthy of a place on this saints forum board

Just like how they wanted an apology from the Richo critics earlier this season when he was “safe as houses?”

[Special]

as far as Im concerned AR has been a dead man walking for two seasons so I can now hold my breath till the announcement
which will be imminent and less life threatening & the fat lady wont even get out of breath
On much more personal note - I am wondering if I & others will get an apology from those called non supporter arm chair warrior and worse that opinions were not worthy of a place on this saints forum board

Just like how they wanted an apology from the Richo critics earlier this season when he was “safe as houses?”

Add friggin Robbo on AFL360 to the list. He has finally accepted AR has to go, but hates the thought.

[Myron Gaines]

as far as Im concerned AR has been a dead man walking for two seasons so I can now hold my breath till the announcement
which will be imminent and less life threatening & the fat lady wont even get out of breath
On much more personal note - I am wondering if I & others will get an apology from those called non supporter arm chair warrior and worse that opinions were not worthy of a place on this saints forum board

Just like how they wanted an apology from the Richo critics earlier this season when he was “safe as houses?”

Add friggin Robbo on AFL360 to the list. He has finally accepted AR has to go, but hates the thought.

Yes I thought that was funny how he conceded that Richo has had a fair go at it after 6 years. Equally funny is his back tracking in regards to his agenda to have Woosha sacked. Back in ya box Robbo, you were wrong on both fronts.

[Beno88]

As far as I can remember only 2 of our senior coaches were hired subsequently by another club and both of them got us to a GF.

We have put the rest in the coaching ground. Is that what coach killers means?

I think you might be right. And in 122 years, only 7 St Kilda coaches have delivered a finals win.

[saintsRrising]

As far as I can remember only 2 of our senior coaches were hired subsequently by another club and both of them got us to a GF.

We have put the rest in the coaching ground. Is that what coach killers means?

Alan Killigrew. Hired by North Melbourne. 54 games with us 70 with North.

Probably the most famous recent coach that began his coaching career is Alistair Clarkson who had his first job as an assistant coach with the Saints in 1999 under that coaching master Timmy Watson.

[saynta]

As far as I can remember only 2 of our senior coaches were hired subsequently by another club and both of them got us to a GF.

We have put the rest in the coaching ground. Is that what coach killers means?

Jezza certainly was.

[Josh Battle]

It’s funny, Jarryn Geary was being lauded for his leadership earlier this season?!

But correct, Roo and Joey left gaping holes of elite senior talent and leadership. A baton that was supposed to be passed on to Goddard and McEvoy.

Not so sure who AR should have rotated the captaincy to? There was no one other than Geary that was captaincy material, and even then it was ridiculous having Jarryn captain when Nick was still in the team. If Nick wanted to give the captaincy up for his last year, Joey should have been Capt for that season with Jarryn VC

Jarryn has always been a role model. Some have only come to realise in 2019 that he deserves to be captain. I think it's ridiculous if football clubs don't plan for the future. If it's so obvious that Roo and Joey departing was going to leave gaping holes, doesn't it make sense to try and make real change?

You only ever excel if you are challenged and out of your comfort zone, so we needed to give others the captaincy years before it actually happened. We had to bite the bullet and put the club first

The batton could have been passed on to Montagna or Sam Fisher in 2014 (as early symbolism that change and succession planning was required). It could have gone to a number of others like Armo or Gilbo or Dempster in 2015 ( or let Joey keep it if he was outstanding in year 1). Then in 2016 there were guys like Newnes or Roberton or Geary who could have given it a go as well and been worthy leaders imo.

[Life Long Saint]

Do you really reckon Billings, Gresham, Bruce are captaincy material? Bruce was in the leadership group for one year, and was demoted thereafter. Billings is still to reach his potential, last year he was dropped for sub par performance. Gresham is still developing his game, doesn’t need the Captaincy to burden him.

Giving a player the captaincy, doesn’t make them great leaders... players with great leadership make great captains.

Hayes, Ball, Reiwoldt, Hamill had great leadership traits... even without the captaincy.

I don't think the others have been given the real opportunity to be captaincy material. We have absolutely missed the boat there.
I wan't sure about Roo when we has given the captaincy in 2005. He had to be convinced to take it. That showed he wasn't ready...But he quickly adapted...gave it up a season later then grew even more as a leader. That happened because Hamill, Hayes, and Harvey provided support to him. That's what you get when you develop leaders - even reluctant ones - into the role.

[Josh Battle]

The term has wide attachment e.g. DMac's pass late in Saturday's game to shift play that had turnover goal on it all the way; Parker's 50 metre penalty because he can't switch on. Foot's sensitivities and ego - all coach killers.

Often we are the equivalent of the funeral home for coaches. Although Ross turned the tables. I think Ken Sheldon's jumper hold to get the player's attention is quite understandable, if PC unacceptable today. Unlike Cunnington's dog acts of smacking solar plexus(s).

Remember how that just takes the wind out of you, smarts a bit and is disabling - putting an opposition key player out of the game for 10 minutes off the ball can be a coach killer - in some sports its a penalty of being sent off for a while. From time to time the MRO and AFL judiciary panel should visit a gym and be given little jabs to the head and body to register what is insufficient force or merely worthy of a fine.

Can I please volunteer to part of that Gym experiment

[minneapolis]

As far as I can remember only 2 of our senior coaches were hired subsequently by another club and both of them got us to a GF.

We have put the rest in the coaching ground. Is that what coach killers means?

Jezza certainly was.

Fair enough. The Hot Gospeller and Jezza makes four.

But most have had no interest from any other clubs after being demoralized by us.

[samuraisaint]

As far as I can remember only 2 of our senior coaches were hired subsequently by another club and both of them got us to a GF.

We have put the rest in the coaching ground. Is that what coach killers means?

Tony Jewell

Mike Patterson

Both coached back at Richmond after they coached us.

[samuraisaint]

Richo has been a relatively good coach for St Kilda. Only 14 coaches in our history have done better statistically. 23 have done worse.
Fat Lady sings, Troll Me.

By the end of the season, and with 14 players currently unavailable on the injury list, AR's record will dip below 30% I think.
That should take a few of our previous coaches above his record I would think.