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spert wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jul 2019 3:48pm
I think Dmac's ideal position is onball/ wing using his run as a weapon to break lines, not on a back flank or back pocket as he is not great in one-on-ones. Acres probably has that running role, so if Acres goes down, then Dmac would be a good replacement, if Steven doesn't get back into it.
Paton is a very good natural footballer and gets himself in the right position, plus good by foot..he could play back or forward,. Langlands is a natural too- seems to know where to run and be in the attacking position to take the ball.
We had seats near the wing row J level 1. Had a good view of the open spaces. Many times Langlands was in space on his own calling for the ball. Was ignored most of the time except for the 3 or 4 times he marked for a shot on goal.
So yep, does know where to run. His mates from the same draft look for him, and it will be great when the rest of the team have similar confidence to pick him out.
What I noticed was Langlands skill level, it was sub par, perhaps nerves but his kicking action is very flawed.
Dan MAC is a good athlete, has a ton of courage and can take a grab for his size. His weakness is his kicking and decision making, he is like a cross between Geary and Gilbert.
Paton is a better natural footballer, isn’t nervous with the footy, and also takes a good grab.
Looks a player.
Paton ran the 6th fastest 20m, had the 3rd highest standing jump and the 2nd highest running jump at the combine.
Fast forward to 0:57. Paton plays on to himself with his right then casually bombs it off his non-preferred. I can't remember ever seeing anyone do that.
I would argue that Paton is the most physically gifted of the players we took in the 2017 draft. He and Clark are among the most two-sided players I've seen. Paton was the designated kicker for Country for a reason. He might not be carving up AFL sides with his footskills yet, but once he's adjusted to the level, I'm very confident in his abilities. [/quote]
Paton ran the 6th fastest 20m, had the 3rd highest standing jump and the 2nd highest running jump at the combine.
Fast forward to 0:57. Paton plays on to himself with his right then casually bombs it off his non-preferred. I can't remember ever seeing anyone do that.
I would argue that Paton is the most physically gifted of the players we took in the 2017 draft. He and Clark are among the most two-sided players I've seen. Paton was the designated kicker for Country for a reason. He might not be carving up AFL sides with his footskills yet, but once he's adjusted to the level, I'm very confident in his abilities. [/quote]
B.M wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jul 2019 7:38pm
What I noticed was Langlands skill level, it was sub par, perhaps nerves but his kicking action is very flawed.
Dan MAC is a good athlete, has a ton of courage and can take a grab for his size. His weakness is his kicking and decision making, he is like a cross between Geary and Gilbert.
Paton is a better natural footballer, isn’t nervous with the footy, and also takes a good grab.
Looks a player.
BM I find that DMac's biggest fault is he can't stay on his feet, always slipping over at crucial times....if he did not he would be more accountable.
"Richo tried his best to ruin our club" - and my head's in a sandpit? Ratten is also a fan of Newnes. Is he also trying to ruin our club? I won't say where your head is but I'd pull it out of there if I was you.
evertonfc wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jul 2019 10:53pm
Paton - 20yo, 186cm, 77 kg (Pick #46, 2017 National Draft) - avg 14.71 touches.
McKenzie - 23yo, 184cm, Weight 78 kg (Pick #22, 2014 National Draft) - avg 12.31 touches.
Remarkably similar players - reliable, mid-sized half-back flankers without any particularly notable skills or physical assets, but who would be dominant VFL players because of their reliability.
I struggle to find a place for both of them in our best 22 going forward, not least because they are so similar, and Nick Coffield will probably get opportunities in the coming year.
McKenzie has grabbed a three-year deal earlier this season, so he's safe in his career for a while. But is there a position for him if Paton keeps his place?
Paton for mine in a heartbeat. Steadier head. Better skills.
I thought Paton was fantastic against Melbourne. Took some great marks, because he knows where to place himself. He actually reads the play very well as he's a footballer not an athlete pretending to be a footballer (DMac). Paton will start to back.himself more with confidence as he's quite good by foit also. Gearys long term replacement for mine.
Vazelos wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jul 2019 11:21pm
I wouldn’t play McKenzie half back he can’t defend one on one and he hasn’t the foot skills for that key position. He has elite running skills is strong and a competitive beast he is best as a run with tagger role in mid field. Half back you need to be a classy ball user that’s not in his skill set.
How do you get from "can't defend one on one" to "best role is a midfield tagger"?
DMac basically had a defensive tag on Charlie Cameron and got belted. I can't see how he'd do any better as a midfield tagger apart from having good endurance.
McKenzie's only hope i can see is as a defensive half forward. His disposal and decision making doesn't work in the back line. Betts got goal side twice and got 2 from it, then the stuff up on the goal line - kick it through you are allowed under pressure know the rules- was terrible. Better forward and created some opportunities through hustle. Least forward if her turns it over it is 180 metres from our goal .
In last off season we turned Battle from a forward to a defender.
Would like to see something tried with D Mac. Let see if we can make a midfielder of him. He has obvious athletic abilities and could provide some good outside run on a wing.
Life is never more fun than when you're the underdog competing against the giants.
Zed wrote: ↑Sun 04 Aug 2019 10:16pm
In last off season we turned Battle from a forward to a defender.
Would like to see something tried with D Mac. Let see if we can make a midfielder of him. He has obvious athletic abilities and could provide some good outside run on a wing.
There’s a big difference ... Battle is a natural footballer; McKenzie is an athlete masquerading as a footballer. Battle is a beautiful kick; McKenzie is Geary-esque by foot.
McKenzie’s only hope really is to play as a run with player in the midfield. But we already have Steele doing that job.
Paton has far more upside. McKenzie will always have his impressive moments due to his courage and athleticism but he's not a smart footballer and he's prone to bad clangers.
With that said, I'm not sure I see Paton as more than depth.
mad saint guy wrote: ↑Mon 05 Aug 2019 1:07am
Paton has far more upside. McKenzie will always have his impressive moments due to his courage and athleticism but he's not a smart footballer and he's prone to bad clangers.
With that said, I'm not sure I see Paton as more than depth.
'Depth'? I like Paton as a player, every time I see him he impresses me.
DMack doesn't fill me with confidence. He fumbled in the goal square, Walker got a goal, and I blame DMack for that. He was too busy worrying about Betts and didn't knock it thru, he was best-placed to do that, but no...
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
the dome wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jul 2019 7:44pm
Paton ran the 6th fastest 20m, had the 3rd highest standing jump and the 2nd highest running jump at the combine.
Fast forward to 0:57. Paton plays on to himself with his right then casually bombs it off his non-preferred. I can't remember ever seeing anyone do that.
I would argue that Paton is the most physically gifted of the players we took in the 2017 draft. He and Clark are among the most two-sided players I've seen. Paton was the designated kicker for Country for a reason. He might not be carving up AFL sides with his footskills yet, but once he's adjusted to the level, I'm very confident in his abilities.
[/quote]
Paton has been very impressive this year. Gets the ball, takes impressive marks. He’a a beauty and a bargain so late in the draft.
mad saint guy wrote: ↑Mon 05 Aug 2019 1:07am
Paton has far more upside. McKenzie will always have his impressive moments due to his courage and athleticism but he's not a smart footballer and he's prone to bad clangers.
With that said, I'm not sure I see Paton as more than depth.
As good any analysis. Paton has the potential to make it, but he needs to show a bit more IMO.
McKenzie...can't question his effort, but it's hard to define what more he brings to our best 22.
Well, two and a half years on, I'm prepared to say that both are in best 22 - and quite comfortably.
Paton has been excellent since his return from injury. An extremely reliable, smart, small defender who reminds me somewhat of Brett Voss (who I was a huge fan of). Does the job with a minimum of fuss, is rarely beaten one-on-one and makes good decisions with the ball in hand. Hasn't missed a beat from 2020 - if anything, he looks a more assured player.
McKenzie is arguably the most improved player on our list. He's setting a standard for defensive work rate, second efforts and running to create extra options. He's using the ball pretty well, too. But it's his physical presence that makes him stand out. I thought he was really good last year - saving his career in the process - but he's also averaging just under 20 touches in his past three games.
I thought there was room for only one and that would have been Paton. But they've emerged as quite different players with different roles. I couldn't have thought McKenzie would be best 22 based on what we've seen, but his desperation and determination can't be faulted. It's setting a benchmark for the team and for that reason, he's becoming very valuable to us.
Hats off to both players. Now, let's see it continue for the rest of 2022 and beyond.
evertonfc wrote: ↑Thu 14 Apr 2022 11:03am
Well, two and a half years on, I'm prepared to say that both are in best 22 - and quite comfortably.
Paton has been excellent since his return from injury. An extremely reliable, smart, small defender who reminds me somewhat of Brett Voss (who I was a huge fan of). Does the job with a minimum of fuss, is rarely beaten one-on-one and makes good decisions with the ball in hand. Hasn't missed a beat from 2020 - if anything, he looks a more assured player.
McKenzie is arguably the most improved player on our list. He's setting a standard for defensive work rate, second efforts and running to create extra options. He's using the ball pretty well, too. But it's his physical presence that makes him stand out. I thought he was really good last year - saving his career in the process - but he's also averaging just under 20 touches in his past three games.
I thought there was room for only one and that would have been Paton. But they've emerged as quite different players with different roles. I couldn't have thought McKenzie would be best 22 based on what we've seen, but his desperation and determination can't be faulted. It's setting a benchmark for the team and for that reason, he's becoming very valuable to us.
Hats off to both players. Now, let's see it continue for the rest of 2022 and beyond.
3 years ago this started - wow lot happened then.
Ratten found a better role for McKenzie last year , wing where he can use if pace, he is exceptional overhead for his size and he has improved his foot skills considerably from the Richo days. The other good thing like Long, when he get s the ball now it is generally 2 kicks at least from the opposition forward line so a turnover is not as costly as when they tried to make them into backmen.
I like Paton, hard at the ball , good footy brain and shows attacking flair. WIll make mistakes like start of last weeks game, but when the games total gets over 50 that will improve.
I have Paton over Geary in my best 22 and Mckenzie in best 26. I am just some mug in the stand and no team ever has best 22 available .
older saint wrote: ↑Thu 14 Apr 2022 11:10am
I have Paton over Geary in my best 22 and Mckenzie in best 26. I am just some mug in the stand and no team ever has best 22 available .
Indeed, both have probably squeezed Geary out, who probably should have retired at the end of last year in any event.
The combination of these two (and Sinclair) has really softened the blow of missing Coffield (albeit McKenzie isn't playing as a defender any more), who now faces a battle to work his way back in next year.
Even Clark isn't a walk in player when he's fit again. Billings probably is, but I think Ben Long is showing some very small glimpses of the player he could grow into (I've written him off before, but I can't deny that he brings something unique) if he applied himself more consistently.
Getting depth into our list has been a problem for years but it does feel like that might (I stress might - it's very early on in the season) be on the cusp of changing.
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.