Fighting for their careers or done for.

[supersaints2]

Brown has been as steady as a rock, Not the most mobile but reliable, he goes on for one season IMO Carlisle not a great full back, suited best at reading play as intercept tall. A lot depends on Battle's exiting progression

Longer will likely not play, Pierce worth keeping for another season if over concussion concerns.. ( we had no rucks at Sandy to all reports,

Armo sadly cooked ( I'd like to see him crack a faiwrll game last home game, Think Ratten liked that sort of stuff

[SuperDuper]

keep brown .. many worse players on list

[skeptic]

Brown has been as steady as a rock, Not the most mobile but reliable, he goes on for one season IMO Carlisle not a great full back, suited best at reading play as intercept tall. A lot depends on Battle's exiting progression

Longer will likely not play, Pierce worth keeping for another season if over concussion concerns.. ( we had no rucks at Sandy to all reports,

Armo sadly cooked ( I'd like to see him crack a faiwrll game last home game, Think Ratten liked that sort of stuff

Nailed it

[BarryGrogan]

Savage, Webster, Newnes, Lonie and Dunstan need to replaced from our current 'best 22' if we're going to be a contender.

Webster's hardness and Newnes' recent defensive forward performances could save them.

Lonie is a goal kicking small forward that can't tackle and misses goals. Not good enough - especially given we've played a 'bomb it in and bring it to the front of the pack' strategy every week for the past 5 years.

They are all deserving of their spot - but I think that tells the tale as to why we're a bottom 4-6 team.

Steven, Hannebury and Geary walk straight in.

Langlands, Parker, Paton and Hind I'm not sure about. Hind is the pick of them thus far.

Presumably King and Bytel will play games next year.

Rice is a no. Not sure about White and I'm not giving up on McKenzie.
Coffield needs to quickly improve his intensity and physicality in the contest, otherwise he won't make it.

So if we can upgrade a small forward, a running back and an on-baller - we'll be cherry ripe. We may even already have the upgrades on the list.

[mad saint guy]

If contracts weren't an issue, I'd delist:

Rowe
Longer
Pierce
McCartin
Rice
Kent
Young
Armitage

Since contracts are an issue, take McCartin, Kent and Young out of that list. I really doubt White will be at the club next year as well. Jack Mayo wouldn't be a certainty either unless he starts showing a little in the VFL. I know people will be up in arms about me putting Kent in that list but he played 1 good game out of 13 this season and that's about par for his career - he gets okay stats every now and then but his dropped marks, fumbles and poor goalkicking are so costly and he will never make it to the best 22 of a decent team. He is pretty much a soft Mav Weller.

Brown has earned another year. Marsh could potentially be a long-term player. We should be targeting the highest performing ruck in the state leagues along with another promising, athletic prospect ala Marshall to replace Longer and Pierce.

[BarryGrogan]

Mayo looks pretty good I reckon.

[To the top]

Time on my hands, so try this for starters:-

SUPPORT DEFENDERS
Coffield
Savage
Clark
Geary
Roberton
Webster
White
Paton
McKenzie
Rice
Wilkie
Langlands (or forward?)

KEY DEFENDERS
Carlisle
Brown
Austin
Battle
Claravino
Joyce
Marsh
Rowe

MIDS
Steven
Ross
Dunstan
Acres
Steele
Hanneberry
Billings
Armitage
Bytel
Phillips
Sinclair

SUPPORT FORWARDS
Gresham
Long
Newnes (?)
Lonie
Kent
Membrey
Parker
Hind
Young

KEY FORWARDS
King
Bruce
McCartin
Mayo

RUCKS
Longer
Marshall
Pierce
Alabakis

To me the Support Defenders and the Support Forwards are the areas for culling/interchange

And the Ruck is the area for obvious attention.

We are also light on for Key Forward options, particularly if McCartin can not impact (and where Ruck resources may allow Marshall to "drift" forward)

To me, there may be some surprise names not on our List in 2020 from the Support Defenders and Support Forwards including testing any trade value as "steak knives" in any "deal" we can put together.

The only ones "safe" to me from those catagories are Coffield, Clark, Roberton (health allowing), Paton (on potential) and Wilkie from defence and Gresham, Long, Lonie (given form holds) and Membrey from the forwards.

I look for substantial improvement in 2020 for a raft of reasons, regardless of the results over the next 4 weeks.

[Bernard Shakey]

Lonie is a goal kicking small forward that can't tackle and misses goals. Not good enough - especially given we've played a 'bomb it in and bring it to the front of the pack' strategy every week for the past 5 years.

You obviously haven't seen Lonie this year.
He is sticking and breaking tackles, and brings a lot of forward pressure. I would put this down to Billy Slater having a big influence.
We really missed his pressure when he was out injured.

[BarryGrogan]

Lonie is a goal kicking small forward that can't tackle and misses goals. Not good enough - especially given we've played a 'bomb it in and bring it to the front of the pack' strategy every week for the past 5 years.

You obviously haven't seen Lonie this year.
He is sticking and breaking tackles, and brings a lot of forward pressure. I would put this down to Billy Slater having a big influence.
We really missed his pressure when he was out injured.

He's not in the top 30 in the comp for Tackles Inside 50, and not even in the top 100 for Tackles.

Not in the top 50 for Goals....but top 5 for Behinds.

[freely]

Lonie is a goal kicking small forward that can't tackle and misses goals. Not good enough - especially given we've played a 'bomb it in and bring it to the front of the pack' strategy every week for the past 5 years.

You obviously haven't seen Lonie this year.
He is sticking and breaking tackles, and brings a lot of forward pressure. I would put this down to Billy Slater having a big influence.
We really missed his pressure when he was out injured.

He's not in the top 30 in the comp for Tackles Inside 50, and not even in the top 100 for Tackles.

Not in the top 50 for Goals....but top 5 for Behinds.

Actually he is in the top 50 for goals - just!
footywire

[Saintly66]

Look I was never a fan of Lonie but happy to admit that he has really come on of late, others should just admit it.

[DJ Higgins]

Look I was never a fan of Lonie but happy to admit that he has really come on of late, others should just admit it.

Agree. Lonie was made to play a role that is against his natural game IE tackle a lot. Now he is playing more of an attacking role and it is so much better. I am not a fan and thought we should have traded him last year but I am happier this year.

Plus I'd like to see most players have a pre season under a different coach and then some games. Ratten knows his stuff and we would be silly not to really consider him for the role

[BarryGrogan]

Look I was never a fan of Lonie but happy to admit that he has really come on of late, others should just admit it.

Still can't tackle, and still can't kick goals.

[Saintly66]

Look I was never a fan of Lonie but happy to admit that he has really come on of late, others should just admit it.

Still can't tackle, and still can't kick goals.

And newnes isn’t a footballers arsehole but hey here we are.

[Crossy66]

Lonie is a goal kicking small forward that can't tackle and misses goals. Not good enough - especially given we've played a 'bomb it in and bring it to the front of the pack' strategy every week for the past 5 years.

You obviously haven't seen Lonie this year.
He is sticking and breaking tackles, and brings a lot of forward pressure. I would put this down to Billy Slater having a big influence.
We really missed his pressure when he was out injured.

He's not in the top 30 in the comp for Tackles Inside 50, and not even in the top 100 for Tackles.

Not in the top 50 for Goals....but top 5 for Behinds.

Hasnt he missed like half a season?

[BarryGrogan]

Lonie is a goal kicking small forward that can't tackle and misses goals. Not good enough - especially given we've played a 'bomb it in and bring it to the front of the pack' strategy every week for the past 5 years.

You obviously haven't seen Lonie this year.
He is sticking and breaking tackles, and brings a lot of forward pressure. I would put this down to Billy Slater having a big influence.
We really missed his pressure when he was out injured.

He's not in the top 30 in the comp for Tackles Inside 50, and not even in the top 100 for Tackles.

Not in the top 50 for Goals....but top 5 for Behinds.

Hasnt he missed like half a season?

They are for Averages, not Totals.

[Crossy66]

Lonie is a goal kicking small forward that can't tackle and misses goals. Not good enough - especially given we've played a 'bomb it in and bring it to the front of the pack' strategy every week for the past 5 years.

You obviously haven't seen Lonie this year.
He is sticking and breaking tackles, and brings a lot of forward pressure. I would put this down to Billy Slater having a big influence.
We really missed his pressure when he was out injured.

He's not in the top 30 in the comp for Tackles Inside 50, and not even in the top 100 for Tackles.

Not in the top 50 for Goals....but top 5 for Behinds.

Hasnt he missed like half a season?

They are for Averages, not Totals.

Fair enough. What's your source of information?

[freely]

I gave source above - he is exactly 50th for goals this season.

[older saint]

New coach always brings new ideas/opinions on players. That said :

My predictions
Gone:
Armitage
Rowe
Longer ( concussion ) - under pressure anyways
Pierce ( Concussion) - under pressure anyways
Roberton ( Heart - very unfortunate)
McCartin ( concussion) - may also just need a new environment?

Under pressure:
Marsh ( looked ok from limited opportunities and no pre season)
Rice - not really given a chance by Richo may ask to leave? One which Rattens thoughts will be big on
White - See Rice
McKenzie - Strong overhead, fast but disposal a killer . Now Richo gone = pressure
Newnes - Richo favourite now needs to earn spot

2020 (make or break)
- Long - 1st round pick need to cement spot
- Hannebery - Lethlean and recruiters - he fails through injury you must be shown the door
- Austin - lot given up for him need to see some return next year
- Claravino - We took him just before Petrucelli got picked. Injuries i know but want to see upside and a few senior games


keep Brown has a) earned his spot , b) provides depth and experience and c) neither Claravino or Austin can have shown can replace him .

For what is worth i expect Steven to be traded to Geelong for a first rounder they get for Kelly or part of a deal involving Hill.

[shanegrambeau]

One category I dislike is the MOBO. Melbourne games only because old.
I want us to keep Brown, but I don’t want him rested for interstate games. If he’s good enough to go again, then he can go to Townsville, Perth, China...etc., anywhere there are premiership points at stake. I hope they don’t stop selecting contracted players because of flights...because I am just a fan and I can’t understand compromise!

[To the top]

These are the players we need to move on from.

Not all will be de-listed/traded ahead of 2020 obviously BUT those who remain will be List Players plying their trade at Sandringham.

Savage, Geary, Webster, McKenzie, Rice, Marsh, Rowe, Armitage (retired), Newnes, Kent, Parker, Hind, Young, Longer and Pierce.

In 2019 ALL of these players have been surpassed by others, including those plying their trade at AFL level because of injury to those in that list who are missing because of injury.

Brave and "role players" does not cut it.

Brave and "role players" is the reason we have been an ordinary side for the last so many seasons.

Time to move on.

What the culling of these players confirms is a change of culture at St Kilda post the Lyon, Watters and Richardson debacles - with excellence now the driver.

The reasons I include Lyon, Watters and Richardson as debacles are different in regards each of them and their tenure.

The President, the administration and Rattan as Coach are driving the change of culture - notwithstanding the financial pressures which maintain.

Those financial pressures will ease (I specifically use the word "ease") with on-field success, so on-field success is not negotiable.

On-field success leads to profile and profile delivers courtesy of prime time exposure, attendances, memberships, sponsorships and St Kilda being a Club players look to represent.

[BarryGrogan]

These are the players we need to move on from.

Not all will be de-listed/traded ahead of 2020 obviously BUT those who remain will be List Players plying their trade at Sandringham.

Savage, Geary, Webster, McKenzie, Rice, Marsh, Rowe, Armitage (retired), Newnes, Kent, Parker, Hind, Young, Longer and Pierce.

In 2019 ALL of these players have been surpassed by others, including those plying their trade at AFL level because of injury to those in that list who are missing because of injury.

Brave and "role players" does not cut it.

Brave and "role players" is the reason we have been an ordinary side for the last so many seasons.

Time to move on.

What the culling of these players confirms is a change of culture at St Kilda post the Lyon, Watters and Richardson debacles - with excellence now the driver.

The reasons I include Lyon, Watters and Richardson as debacles are different in regards each of them and their tenure.

The President, the administration and Rattan as Coach are driving the change of culture - notwithstanding the financial pressures which maintain.

Those financial pressures will ease (I specifically use the word "ease") with on-field success, so on-field success is not negotiable.

On-field success leads to profile and profile delivers courtesy of prime time exposure, attendances, memberships, sponsorships and St Kilda being a Club players look to represent.

Agree.

Except for Geary. Gun.

[SAINT-LEE]

SUPPORT DEFENDERS
Coffield - keep
Savage - cut
Clark - keep
Geary - last season
Roberton - 25% confident he will ever play seniors
Webster - Keep
White Cut
Paton - Keep
McKenzie - Cut
Rice CUt
Wilkie - keep
Langlands (or forward?) - keep

KEY DEFENDERS
Carlisle - Keep, wish he played to his potential just one game.
Brown - MUST KEEP for stability
Austin - Wasted trade, cut
Battle - KEEP
Claravino - drop
Joyce - KEEP
Marsh - KEEP
Rowe - CUT

MIDS
Steven - will opt for a fresh start with the family and I hope he gets it cuz nothing is more important, which stings bad ( those aren't tears bro I've got allergies).
Ross - shown a bit as captain Im actually shocked, has been the dullest high possession players in the league for years
Dunstan - solid lad with a sluggish sway but a fair contributor. He will stay. A gutsy coach would trade him.
Acres - Acres should go but we won't. He needs a fresh start and a new direction. Not as a mid.
Steele - not sure we would get many tackles if he was gone. Keep.
Hanneberry - will never be our go to, he will come in for some great games eventually but suffer ongoing injuries. He will give it away at the end of 2021
Billings - KEEP
Armitage - farewell the bull of Morrabin - Armitage. He has been a ox carrying the heavy yoke for years
Bytel - a unknown
Phillips - get him mentored by Geary to replace him in defence.
Sinclair - trade, lots of upside but his time is up.

SUPPORT FORWARDS
Gresham - again not a SUPPORT. He has real potential bit there's something not quite right in his game that feels like either attitude or work ethic. A new coach team may get him firing like we have seen in lots part....fully.
Long - develop another year 10 senior games the rest in VFL.
Newnes - trade or cut
Lonie - not support he has real potential
Kent - Cut him loose, only played well in his, " told you so that you shouldn't cut me you evil bastards" game after that game he proved Melbourne right.
Membrey - REQUIRED NOT SUPPORT
Parker - Cut him loose...passion, shown a bit, needs 2 years solid development, wont get it.
Hind - potential, keep
Young - keep

KEY FORWARDS
King - will play but needs 2 seasons to mature.
Bruce - he has improved
McCartin - must cut him loose sadly
Mayo - should cut him loose
Rowan to slot into the forward line and Bruce/Membrey would reap a whirlwind of 1 on 1 and marks for everyone.

RUCKS
Longer - gone, which is nuts because he's got value.
Marshall - moves to forward line/part time ruck
Pierce - keep
Alabakis - keep developing rucks don't grow on trees overnight
ADD: 1 older ruckman, someone to guide 5 game - Pierce, who will be a great contributor but not a beast.

[saynta]

SUPPORT DEFENDERS
Coffield - keep
Savage - cut
Clark - keep
Geary - last season
Roberton - 25% confident he will ever play seniors
Webster - Keep
White Cut
Paton - Keep
McKenzie - Cut
Rice CUt
Wilkie - keep
Langlands (or forward?) - keep

KEY DEFENDERS
Carlisle - Keep, wish he played to his potential just one game.
Brown - MUST KEEP for stability
Austin - Wasted trade, cut
Battle - KEEP
Claravino - drop
Joyce - KEEP
Marsh - KEEP
Rowe - CUT

MIDS
Steven - will opt for a fresh start with the family and I hope he gets it cuz nothing is more important, which stings bad ( those aren't tears bro I've got allergies).
Ross - shown a bit as captain Im actually shocked, has been the dullest high possession players in the league for years
Dunstan - solid lad with a sluggish sway but a fair contributor. He will stay. A gutsy coach would trade him.
Acres - Acres should go but we won't. He needs a fresh start and a new direction. Not as a mid.
Steele - not sure we would get many tackles if he was gone. Keep.
Hanneberry - will never be our go to, he will come in for some great games eventually but suffer ongoing injuries. He will give it away at the end of 2021
Billings - KEEP
Armitage - farewell the bull of Morrabin - Armitage. He has been a ox carrying the heavy yoke for years
Bytel - a unknown
Phillips - get him mentored by Geary to replace him in defence.
Sinclair - trade, lots of upside but his time is up.

SUPPORT FORWARDS
Gresham - again not a SUPPORT. He has real potential bit there's something not quite right in his game that feels like either attitude or work ethic. A new coach team may get him firing like we have seen in lots part....fully.
Long - develop another year 10 senior games the rest in VFL.
Newnes - trade or cut
Lonie - not support he has real potential
Kent - Cut him loose, only played well in his, " told you so that you shouldn't cut me you evil bastards" game after that game he proved Melbourne right.
Membrey - REQUIRED NOT SUPPORT
Parker - Cut him loose...passion, shown a bit, needs 2 years solid development, wont get it.
Hind - potential, keep
Young - keep

KEY FORWARDS
King - will play but needs 2 seasons to mature.
Bruce - he has improved
McCartin - must cut him loose sadly
Mayo - should cut him loose
Rowan to slot into the forward line and Bruce/Membrey would reap a whirlwind of 1 on 1 and marks for everyone.

RUCKS
Longer - gone, which is nuts because he's got value.
Marshall - moves to forward line/part time ruck
Pierce - keep
Alabakis - keep developing rucks don't grow on trees overnight
ADD: 1 older ruckman, someone to guide 5 game - Pierce, who will be a great contributor but not a beast.

Very entertaining. Gave me a laugh.

[ctqs]

Why the hate on Brown? We're a better team when he's in the side.