Hill to Geelong?

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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1828987Post BarryGrogan »

Ape_Man wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 9:14pm

I was just pointing out that Ross’ disposal efficiency is higher than Hill’s.

2019: Hill 67%. Ross 73%
Career: Hill 71% Ross 73%

I think it is also important to note that Champion data consider any kick over 45 meters to be effective.

Maybe I’m off my rocker, but these numbers say Ross hits his targets more often than Hill.

And Seb gets it more often. Over careers Hill averages 20.1 disposals. Seb 24.5.

This year Hill 25.1. Seb 26.0.

I’ve shown you mine, now show me yours.
You don't have to hit your target to get an 'effective disposal'.

It's a very misleading stat.


You could have the full forward 20m clear on a lead, but shank the kick and instead of it being an easy spot up and shot at goal - it ends up being a contest that is punched over the boundary line.

That counts as an effective disposal.


It also doesn't consider the option. Ignoring someone on their own in F50, amd instead bombing it to 50/50 also counts as an effective disposal.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1828989Post derby Street »

BarryGrogan wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 10:03pm
Ape_Man wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 9:14pm

I was just pointing out that Ross’ disposal efficiency is higher than Hill’s.

2019: Hill 67%. Ross 73%
Career: Hill 71% Ross 73%

I think it is also important to note that Champion data consider any kick over 45 meters to be effective.

Maybe I’m off my rocker, but these numbers say Ross hits his targets more often than Hill.

And Seb gets it more often. Over careers Hill averages 20.1 disposals. Seb 24.5.

This year Hill 25.1. Seb 26.0.

I’ve shown you mine, now show me yours.
You don't have to hit your target to get an 'effective disposal'.

It's a very misleading stat.


You could have the full forward 20m clear on a lead, but shank the kick and instead of it being an easy spot up and shot at goal - it ends up being a contest that is punched over the boundary line.

That counts as an effective disposal.


It also doesn't consider the option. Ignoring someone on their own in F50, amd instead bombing it to 50/50 also counts as an effective disposal.
Correct - hence Savages long bombs down the line or into the F50 not affecting his DE %


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1828997Post saintbob »

Joffa Burns wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 8:33pm
To the top wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 7:12pm The question to be asked is, Hill has nominated St Kilda where (apparently) he will be the ONLY A Grade player we will have, the rest C and D Grade and worse as we are constantly reminded by a serial, recalcitrant contributor on here - and, to boot, our administration is not up to standard

So Hill has nominated to come to a Club which will be propping up the competition during the remainder of Hill’s career

Why has he nominated St Kilda?

In fact, why has anyone nominated St Kilda?
A question.

Who would you deem A grade at St Kilda at the moment?
Closest would be Marshall, Billings & Ross at a guess.
Steven was A grade but jury out now.

Hill has nominated Saints IMO for $$$$ he cannot get elsewhere and probably had a great relationship with Ratten whilst at Hawthorn.

Hill is a priority as he adds speed & very good disposal to a one paced midfield.
Let’s not kid ourselves, we haven’t had an A Grader since Riewoldt retired.
Steven has been our best player since but to call him a A grader is a fair stretch.
Compare him to Bontempelli or Cripps and he is no where near the mark.

Cripps - 3 x B&F’s and 2 x AA’s

Bontempelli -3 x B&F’s, 2 x AA’s and a premiership medallion


Now that’s what an A Grade Midfielders CV should look like.
Last edited by saintbob on Mon 14 Oct 2019 12:42am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829000Post Spinner »

Only a matter of time till an alternative option got air in the papers.

You would think the $$$$ would be difficult for Geelong to match. Probs walks in their highest paid player.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829004Post kalsaint »

silverhalo wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 5:16pm
st.byron wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 5:12pm
silverhalo wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 5:05pm I'm getting a bit jack of this now, if Freo keeps making these unreasonable demands, as much as I'd love to have Hill, I'd be really satisfied to get the other 4 as they do address a number of our needs, keep pick 12 for the draft and target a speedy mid.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... b027027634
Can't read it behind the paywall.
Try this one:-
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-tr ... 2f574279d4
Geelong midfielder Sam Menegola has emerged as a potential left-field saviour to the stalled Bradley Hill deal, with Fremantle interested in the player they delisted five years ago.

The Western Australian is below. It has a slightly different take to Fox.
Ex-Docker, now Cat Sam Menegola emerges as key in Bradley Hill trade

Braden Quartermaine
The West Australian
Sunday, 13 October 2019 12:57PM

Sam Menegola spent a season with Subiaco in 2015 before Geelong became his third AFL team. Credit: WA News
While Hill is considered most likely to be at St Kilda come the end of the trade period on Wednesday, the Cats are understood to have moved into the frame as a contingency club in the wake of a bitter breakdown in negotiations between the Dockers and Saints last week.
It is expected Geelong would have to shed a player to provide for Hill’s hefty wage demands.

St Kilda stunned Fremantle on Thursday when they split their prized pick six, which the Dockers had wanted as part of a deal to release the contracted Hill, in a swap which netted them picks 12 and 18 from Greater Western Sydney.
Menegola, 27, could return to Fremantle even if Hill gets his wish to move to the Saints on a long-term deal where he would receive a significant pay rise.
He would give the Dockers a much-needed hard-running wing option in the wake of Ed Langdon’s departure to Melbourne and the expected loss of Hill.

Fremantle’s midfield has been battered by the loss of star clearance winner Lachie Neal to Brisbane 12 months ago and now key wingmen Langdon and possibly Hill, who both finished in the top five of this season’s Doig Medal.

Menegola, who was initially delisted by Hawthorn without playing a game in 2011, has a year remaining on his contract and is happy at Geelong. But he could expect more security as well as a pay rise if he joined Fremantle.
The East Fremantle product spent three seasons on the rookie list at the Dockers, where he battled injury issues before being delisted at the end of the 2014 season without playing a game.
The journeyman rejuvenated his career in a more attacking role at Subiaco in 2015 before landing at his third AFL club when the Cats took him with pick 66 in the 2015 national draft.
He has played 65 games in four seasons at Geelong, including 12 this year in a season that was interrupted by a knee injury.

The local West journo, Mark Duffield, also gave them a serve for stupidity.


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You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829005Post groupie1 »

Easy.
Josh Bruce and Dunstan to ESSENDON; allowing them to part with Joe Daniher and they get the inside bull they're missing... we get Swans pick 5. 5 and 12 for Hill and next year's Freo's 1st rounder; 18 and some swaps for the two Port boys; Steven to Geelong for 36 or 37, passed onto Sydney with Jack Newnes and Lonie for Jones and 25 in return for snagging Daniher for them. Richmond is nice enough to let Butler go for free. Sydney will still get 9 for Papley, plus Newnes in whom they had had interest and Lonie to go some distance replacing Papley.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829006Post groupie1 »

And the finger to the Bulldogs for good measure


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829007Post groupie1 »

adding to this we could complicate it by proposing Menenggola to Freo; Steven to Geelong for NIL (and we don't pay his salary)... satisfying Freo's needs even more... Be great to see Carlisle find a new home also for a pick next year.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829009Post SaintPav »

Hill is not worth pick 5 and 12.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829011Post barneyboyz »

BarryGrogan wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 10:03pm
Ape_Man wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 9:14pm

I was just pointing out that Ross’ disposal efficiency is higher than Hill’s.

2019: Hill 67%. Ross 73%
Career: Hill 71% Ross 73%

I think it is also important to note that Champion data consider any kick over 45 meters to be effective.

Maybe I’m off my rocker, but these numbers say Ross hits his targets more often than Hill.

And Seb gets it more often. Over careers Hill averages 20.1 disposals. Seb 24.5.

This year Hill 25.1. Seb 26.0.

I’ve shown you mine, now show me yours.
You don't have to hit your target to get an 'effective disposal'.

It's a very misleading stat.


You could have the full forward 20m clear on a lead, but shank the kick and instead of it being an easy spot up and shot at goal - it ends up being a contest that is punched over the boundary line.

That counts as an effective disposal.


It also doesn't consider the option. Ignoring someone on their own in F50, amd instead bombing it to 50/50 also counts as an effective disposal.
What it does suggest though, is that if Ross were to improve his kicking he'd be elite


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829013Post groupie1 »

Freo's 1st pick next year comes back


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829014Post Secret Kiel »

saintbob wrote: Mon 14 Oct 2019 12:26am
Joffa Burns wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 8:33pm
To the top wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 7:12pm The question to be asked is, Hill has nominated St Kilda where (apparently) he will be the ONLY A Grade player we will have, the rest C and D Grade and worse as we are constantly reminded by a serial, recalcitrant contributor on here - and, to boot, our administration is not up to standard

So Hill has nominated to come to a Club which will be propping up the competition during the remainder of Hill’s career

Why has he nominated St Kilda?

In fact, why has anyone nominated St Kilda?
A question.

Who would you deem A grade at St Kilda at the moment?
Closest would be Marshall, Billings & Ross at a guess.
Steven was A grade but jury out now.

Hill has nominated Saints IMO for $$$$ he cannot get elsewhere and probably had a great relationship with Ratten whilst at Hawthorn.

Hill is a priority as he adds speed & very good disposal to a one paced midfield.
Let’s not kid ourselves, we haven’t had an A Grader since Riewoldt retired.
Steven has been our best player since but to call him a A grader is a fair stretch.
Compare him to Bontempelli or Cripps and he is no where near the mark.

Cripps - 3 x B&F’s and 2 x AA’s

Bontempelli -3 x B&F’s, 2 x AA’s and a premiership medallion


Now that’s what an A Grade Midfielders CV should look like.
I think you have to include performances in big matches such as finals and GFs and Cripps is an unknown quantity in that regard at the moment, how many players have looked A grade until they choke on the big stage.

And why does everyone keep throwing up that Hill only want's to come to the saints because of the dollars, of coarse that is the main reason, probably 99% of the reason. Imagine being a 26yo man and offered 900k per year to do anything let alone play football and be treated like a god, there probably isn't a drug around that can give you a bigger come up.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829017Post BarryGrogan »

barneyboyz wrote: Mon 14 Oct 2019 7:30am
BarryGrogan wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 10:03pm
Ape_Man wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 9:14pm

I was just pointing out that Ross’ disposal efficiency is higher than Hill’s.

2019: Hill 67%. Ross 73%
Career: Hill 71% Ross 73%

I think it is also important to note that Champion data consider any kick over 45 meters to be effective.

Maybe I’m off my rocker, but these numbers say Ross hits his targets more often than Hill.

And Seb gets it more often. Over careers Hill averages 20.1 disposals. Seb 24.5.

This year Hill 25.1. Seb 26.0.

I’ve shown you mine, now show me yours.
You don't have to hit your target to get an 'effective disposal'.

It's a very misleading stat.


You could have the full forward 20m clear on a lead, but shank the kick and instead of it being an easy spot up and shot at goal - it ends up being a contest that is punched over the boundary line.

That counts as an effective disposal.


It also doesn't consider the option. Ignoring someone on their own in F50, amd instead bombing it to 50/50 also counts as an effective disposal.
What it does suggest though, is that if Ross were to improve his kicking he'd be elite
I think most have acknowledged that for some time.

But when you're in your late 20s, a sudden improvement in fundamental skills is pretty rare.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829035Post SaintPav »

I think we should just rename RESA Park Dockers Park and name one of the new stands the Peter Bell Stand


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829066Post Sainternist »

Spinner wrote: Mon 14 Oct 2019 12:37am Only a matter of time till an alternative option got air in the papers.

You would think the $$$$ would be difficult for Geelong to match. Probs walks in their highest paid player.
Yeah Geelong getting him doesn’t sound right. They’ll be really struggling with cap space if they got him.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829067Post Secret Kiel »

We are offering to pay Hill 900k per year, doesn't Geelong have a rule about not overpaying their stars, would they really be willing to pay overs like we are? Doubt it.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829069Post longtimesaint »

They would have the cap space because they were prepared to pay Kelly if he stayed and he would have wanted as much as Hill


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829073Post The_Dud »

Doesn’t Hill want to play in Melbourne for family reasons? If we’ve learnt one thing this last year it’s that the Geelong-Melbourne distance is an insurmountable obstacle for an AFL player to overcome.

So I’m not worried!


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829075Post sax »

I do think now Ben King has resigned with Gold Coast, Saints will offer Freo pick 12 this year & next years first rounder for Brad Hill


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829078Post The OtherThommo »

longtimesaint wrote: Mon 14 Oct 2019 12:29pm They would have the cap space because they were prepared to pay Kelly if he stayed and he would have wanted as much as Hill
And, the suggestion they were prepared to pay Kelly was laughed off in about 2 nanoseconds.

Everyone knew he was going home, and they knew that last year.

Would they have been willing to shed as much 'value', as they extracted from Wet Toast, to keep Kelly?

Purely from the aspect of regarding Hill's $900k p.a. as equivalent to what Geelong would have been prepared to pay Kelly, would Geelong regard Hill as a sufficient replacement for Kelly?

They are very, very different players, and nothing like interchangeable.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829079Post The OtherThommo »

The_Dud wrote: Mon 14 Oct 2019 12:50pm Doesn’t Hill want to play in Melbourne for family reasons? If we’ve learnt one thing this last year it’s that the Geelong-Melbourne distance is an insurmountable obstacle for an AFL player to overcome.

So I’m not worried!
Prefacing this with the usual Jon Ralph rider, July 4th;



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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829123Post ace »

suss wrote: Sun 13 Oct 2019 5:50pm I can’t remember a team swooping in and knicking a player in this situation. Has been threatened many a time (e.g. Carlisle) but I can’t remember it actually happening.
Could this be Geelong playing hard ball over the Jack Steven deal.
There is absolutely no way Geelong can afford both Hill and Steven in their salary cap despite losing Kelly.

If Geelong take Hill there is absolutely no way St Kilda should pay a cent of Geelong's salary to Steven.


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829158Post wally »

Probably Buddy...He was supposed to go to GWS then Sydney came from nowhete to sign him especially since they took Tippett the year earlier supposed to go to Suns


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829159Post wally »

For Hill to go to geelong we are probably expected to pay half his salary on top of payng Jacks


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Re: Hill to Geelong?

Post: # 1829163Post saintsRrising »

wally wrote: Mon 14 Oct 2019 6:21pm Probably Buddy...He was supposed to go to GWS then Sydney came from nowhete to sign him especially since they took Tippett the year earlier supposed to go to Suns
Buddy had not nominated GWS.


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