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Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 3:30pm
I wouldn't get too worked up about receiving Pick 58 for Jack Steven. Fact is that he has had major mental health issues that have prevented him from playing a lot of games this year, and gauged on the games he played when he did come back in he did not look to be at peak fitness.
Having requested a trade to Geelong post 2017 it seems to me that he is most unlikely to have great desire to continue to play for the Saints in 2020 and could well continue to suffer further ill health.
Pick 58 to me reflects reasonable value based on Jack's most recent form and his age - if moving to Geelong aids his recovery we should all wish him well!
Don’t agree personally.
Guy has been a consistently elite player over many years.
Had one down year in the context of his troubles but was playing by the end of the year and is not coming off a major physical injury that requires rehab/impacts performance
Is absolutely primed for a big pre-season and to get right back to where he was.
Much better prospect than say Hannebery was when we traded for him.
IMO if this trade goes for p58... it’s the bargain of the trade period and absolute idiocy on our account.
Cannot trade an elite player for 58... no one else would do this
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 3:30pm
I wouldn't get too worked up about receiving Pick 58 for Jack Steven. Fact is that he has had major mental health issues that have prevented him from playing a lot of games this year, and gauged on the games he played when he did come back in he did not look to be at peak fitness.
Having requested a trade to Geelong post 2017 it seems to me that he is most unlikely to have great desire to continue to play for the Saints in 2020 and could well continue to suffer further ill health.
Pick 58 to me reflects reasonable value based on Jack's most recent form and his age - if moving to Geelong aids his recovery we should all wish him well!
Don’t agree personally.
Guy has been a consistently elite player over many years.
Had one down year in the context of his troubles but was playing by the end of the year and is not coming off a major physical injury that requires rehab/impacts performance
Is absolutely primed for a big pre-season and to get right back to where he was.
Much better prospect than say Hannebery was when we traded for him.
IMO if this trade goes for p58... it’s the bargain of the trade period and absolute idiocy on our account.
Cannot trade an elite player for 58... no one else would do this
Tom Scully? GWS did it last year
"It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress."
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 3:30pm
I wouldn't get too worked up about receiving Pick 58 for Jack Steven. Fact is that he has had major mental health issues that have prevented him from playing a lot of games this year, and gauged on the games he played when he did come back in he did not look to be at peak fitness.
Having requested a trade to Geelong post 2017 it seems to me that he is most unlikely to have great desire to continue to play for the Saints in 2020 and could well continue to suffer further ill health.
Pick 58 to me reflects reasonable value based on Jack's most recent form and his age - if moving to Geelong aids his recovery we should all wish him well!
Don’t agree personally.
Guy has been a consistently elite player over many years.
Had one down year in the context of his troubles but was playing by the end of the year and is not coming off a major physical injury that requires rehab/impacts performance
Is absolutely primed for a big pre-season and to get right back to where he was.
Much better prospect than say Hannebery was when we traded for him.
IMO if this trade goes for p58... it’s the bargain of the trade period and absolute idiocy on our account.
Cannot trade an elite player for 58... no one else would do this
Tom Scully? GWS did it last year
Forgive me if I’m mistaken but wasn’t the common concern that Scully’s body was stuffed?
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 3:30pm
I wouldn't get too worked up about receiving Pick 58 for Jack Steven. Fact is that he has had major mental health issues that have prevented him from playing a lot of games this year, and gauged on the games he played when he did come back in he did not look to be at peak fitness.
Having requested a trade to Geelong post 2017 it seems to me that he is most unlikely to have great desire to continue to play for the Saints in 2020 and could well continue to suffer further ill health.
Pick 58 to me reflects reasonable value based on Jack's most recent form and his age - if moving to Geelong aids his recovery we should all wish him well!
Don’t agree personally.
Guy has been a consistently elite player over many years.
Had one down year in the context of his troubles but was playing by the end of the year and is not coming off a major physical injury that requires rehab/impacts performance
Is absolutely primed for a big pre-season and to get right back to where he was.
Much better prospect than say Hannebery was when we traded for him.
IMO if this trade goes for p58... it’s the bargain of the trade period and absolute idiocy on our account.
Cannot trade an elite player for 58... no one else would do this
Tom Scully? GWS did it last year
Forgive me if I’m mistaken but wasn’t the common concern that Scully’s body was stuffed?
And GWS put a big heap of pressure on him the season prior to play injured
Geelong know Steven is out of contract end of next year.
If he were to remain at St Kilda next year he can walk as a free agent at the end of year. All St Kilda has to sell is one year of Jack Steven not the rest of his playing career.
Geelong has salary cap issues so wants St Kilda to contribute to their salary cap.
So Geelong say we will only pay you for one year of Jack Steven playing.
We need to say to Geelong we can trade him for nothing, just take him but then you can't afford his salary. You want us to pay part of his salary you have to pay us in draft picks.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA 50:08
Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 5:33pm
Given what we reportedly have offered Hill & Hannebery, we may need to offload Steven to fit them into the salary cap.
No idea, just a suggestion that might explain the poor return.
there is offload and there is charity but I see your point. My dislike for Geelong has grown somewhat but hey would we do the same ?
I'd sooner get nothing than appease him and improve The Handbaggers list.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 5:46pm
He was retired if he didn't go to Geelong.
We either got nuthin' or pick 58.
Good deal for us.
Time will tell if it's good for Geelong.
Historically the benefit given by pick 58, is only marginally better than getting nothing. When you factor in the fact we probably wouldn't have to had pay out any % of his contract if he terminated it, we are actually losing out quite significantly from this exchange, especially if the reports are true about us paying a portion of his salary.
Also factor in the fact that after pick 19, the correlation between successful player outcomes and draft position becomes weakened significantly. If you actually go back and look at the stats, this deal is up there with the worst of them.
BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 5:46pm
He was retired if he didn't go to Geelong.
We either got nuthin' or pick 58.
Good deal for us.
Time will tell if it's good for Geelong.
Historically the benefit given by pick 58, is only marginally better than getting nothing. When you factor in the fact we probably wouldn't have to had pay out any % of his contract if he terminated it, we are actually losing out quite significantly from this exchange, especially if the reports are true about us paying a portion of his salary.
Also factor in the fact that after pick 19, the correlation between successful player outcomes and draft position becomes weakened significantly. If you actually go back and look at the stats, this deal is up there with the worst of them.
BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 5:46pm
He was retired if he didn't go to Geelong.
We either got nuthin' or pick 58.
Good deal for us.
Time will tell if it's good for Geelong.
Historically the benefit given by pick 58, is only marginally better than getting nothing. When you factor in the fact we probably wouldn't have to had pay out any % of his contract if he terminated it, we are actually losing out quite significantly from this exchange, especially if the reports are true about us paying a portion of his salary.
Also factor in the fact that after pick 19, the correlation between successful player outcomes and draft position becomes weakened significantly. If you actually go back and look at the stats, this deal is up there with the worst of them.
You missed the point.
It was zilch, or pick 58.
We took 58. Good deal.
That is my point, nothing in this context is better than pick 58.
He could honour his 800K contract he was happy to sign. Or quit and go to Geelong on their contract?
What we owed him, we gave him last season... a long lay off whilst still earning 17k per week to look after his mental health... no problem with that
I do have a problem giving away a contracted player for next to nothing as good will!
The club is a business and should look after its members first. That means being as ruthless as need be to become successful.
Not rolling over and taking it in the ****
Pardon the pun!
BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Tue 15 Oct 2019 5:46pm
He was retired if he didn't go to Geelong.
We either got nuthin' or pick 58.
Good deal for us.
Time will tell if it's good for Geelong.
Historically the benefit given by pick 58, is only marginally better than getting nothing. When you factor in the fact we probably wouldn't have to had pay out any % of his contract if he terminated it, we are actually losing out quite significantly from this exchange, especially if the reports are true about us paying a portion of his salary.
Also factor in the fact that after pick 19, the correlation between successful player outcomes and draft position becomes weakened significantly. If you actually go back and look at the stats, this deal is up there with the worst of them.
You missed the point.
It was zilch, or pick 58.
We took 58. Good deal.
That is my point, nothing in this context is better than pick 58.
Geelong shouldnt have it both ways tho.. if they only give us pick 58 for a 4 time b&f who basically won a game off his own boot whilst obviously non match fit against freo, then surely we dont pay some of his contract as well!!
