Hindsight: The Scott Watters Era.

[shanegrambeau]

Seaford is history. Scott’s a long way away. Bagged us for poor culture bla bla

But what do you lot make of his coaching legacy now? (Put aside his snobby kinda thing)

2013, after six rounds, we were 1-5. That “1” was belting GWS when they were pups.

But was 2012 bad?

A lot of us bag Lyon and GT. But we don’t cut Watters much slack for it either.

What do you make of his structures, team selection choices, leadership etc.?

[BarryGrogan]

I can barely recall him even coaching us to be honest.

[skeptic]

What I remember of his time is that I found some of selections odd but I was happy with his overall list management.

Was quite shocked he got sacked

[mad saint guy]

I was happy to get rid of him. He never seemed like a particularly genuine person and would dodge questions or outright lie in the media quite a bit. Seemed like a bit of a rogue unit and that's why we brought in stable Mr Predictable Richo afterwards as a steadying hand.

We absolutely butchered the list while Watters was around, not sure how much influence in that he had though.

2012 off season

Let Goddard walk as a FA
Traded Cripps and Pick 45 for Pick 40

Brought in Tom Lee, Tom Hickey, Trent Dennis-Lane, Nathan Wright, Spencer White, Brodie Murdoch, Josh Saunders and Lewis Pierce

The only acquisition of any value was the one that cost us nothing - Roberton as a DFA

[desertsaint]

wasn't quite a mark neeld, but was a pretty awful appointment. very glad when we booted him. fair enough he started with the players offside from the get go, but it only got worse from there.

[saynta]

I can barely recall him even coaching us to be honest.

Same here. Players didn't think much of him either, hence the dwarf incident.

Little deadshit afaic. Bagged us out after he was sacked. No class.

[whiskers3614]

hard gig when the leadership group don't want you.
Not saying he was any good but probably never had a chance to begin with.
Between salary cap issues and the tail wagging the dog not sure if Norm Smith assisted by Matthews and Clarkson would have done much good!The fact that he had Malthouse training and attitudes probably no great help to being accepted/liked either.

[shanegrambeau]

Expectations were not great in 2013.

Here is the ABC's prediction for us. And it's pretty reasonable. Basically, 'it's over' for them.

.............................................................................................................


AFL 2013: St Kilda Preview (Dan Lonergan)


For years, St Kilda was regarded as a squad with the talent to take on and beat the rest of the AFL and perhaps launch a dynasty.
St Kilda

Last three seasons: 2012 - 9th, 2011 - 6th, 2010 - Grand Finalists

Coach: Scott Watters

Ins: Trent Dennis-Lane (Sydney), Sam Dunell (promoted), Tom Hickey (Gold Coast), Tom Lee (GWS)

Outs: Raphael Clarke (delisted), Jamie Cripps (West Coast), Sam Crocker (delisted), Brendon Goddard (Essendon), Jasom Gram (delisted), Brett Peake (delisted), Dean Polo (delisted)

Predictions: 13th

It's a matter of record that the Saints made finals in seven out of nine years from 2004, making the top four five times and the grand final in two of those years - all for no reward.

The golden generation of Saints is now getting to the senior stage, and for the likes of Nick Dal Santo, Nick Riewoldt, Lenny Hayes, Justin Koschitzke, Leigh Montagna, Stephen Milne and co, the raw truth is that time may have passed them by.

The Saints missed the finals in 2012, before free agency took away one of the keys to the side in Brendon Goddard, who accepted an offer to join Essendon.

It's hard to see where the goals are going to come from to get the Saints back to the finals, with their reliance on a group of small forwards including Milne, Terry Milera, Ahmed Saad and Swans recruit Trent Dennis-Lane.

Realistically, this is a transition period, and the Saints will need to build again under coach Scott Watters.


...............
We finished 15th. Won five, including the final two games. Watters was sacked November.

[Joffa Burns]

IMO was really on a hiding to nothing.
The group was burnt out mentally after losing in 09 & 10 and jaded after Lyon left the club.

Was a nice guy off the field but seemed to try to play the tough guy that controlled every aspect of the club internally and he was not a well respected guy that could pull that off.

He wasn't a bad singer though!

[cwrcyn]

It's interesting with the Malthouse proteges, isn't it? Watters, Laidley, Neeld. The influence of Malthouse may have been to give those guys the confidence to do it, but did he also influence their method, their people management, and their attitude toward their new clubs? Malthouse had no respect for St Kilda, that was clear. So....did he tell Watters......"Hey Scotty, they're a s*** football club. You need to go in there and show them who's boss because they've got no idea, and don't ever back down". My guess is he gave similar advice to Neeld, who completely blew it by disrespecting the senior playing core at Melbourne, as did Watters at St Kilda. You don't go into a new football club and treat everyone like they're idiots, no matter who you are.

[mr six o'clock]

IMO was really on a hiding to nothing.
The group was burnt out mentally after losing in 09 & 10 and jaded after Lyon left the club.

Was a nice guy off the field but seemed to try to play the tough guy that controlled every aspect of the club internally and he was not a well respected guy that could pull that off.

He wasn't a bad singer though!

I concur !

[shanegrambeau]

It's interesting with the Malthouse proteges, isn't it? Watters, Laidley, Neeld. The influence of Malthouse may have been to give those guys the confidence to do it, but did he also influence their method, their people management, and their attitude toward their new clubs? Malthouse had no respect for St Kilda, that was clear. So....did he tell Watters......"Hey Scotty, they're a s*** football club. You need to go in there and show them who's boss because they've got no idea, and don't ever back down". My guess is he gave similar advice to Neeld, who completely blew it by disrespecting the senior playing core at Melbourne, as did Watters at St Kilda. You don't go into a new football club and treat everyone like they're idiots, no matter who you are.

Well, that just condemns him really. I suspect he must have had more respect for us on account of our success despite Malthouse.. And more independence of thought than just the old Malt's view...which by then was not good. Ask Millney.

But could he have under appreciated the terrible loss of talent he was casting off upon our 2012 delistments. Raph Clarke was 25! Peake was good, wasn't he? Goddard of course too. The rebuilding mantra was building then. I hated it with a passion. What the ... does re-building even mean when teams like Hawthorn and Geelong just keep being competitive by balancing their lists with top-ups from here and there...opportunitism = clever, falling for the the rebuilding rhetoric = sucked in mate!

Always seemed aloof. But so did Hird..but as you say, he didn't have the respect to be able o pull it off. Perhaps he suspected that the senior crew thought they might be able to cruise and he was determined to prevent apathy.

But as a field coach...we were quite good in 2012 in patches.

[saynta]

It's interesting with the Malthouse proteges, isn't it? Watters, Laidley, Neeld. The influence of Malthouse may have been to give those guys the confidence to do it, but did he also influence their method, their people management, and their attitude toward their new clubs? Malthouse had no respect for St Kilda, that was clear. So....did he tell Watters......"Hey Scotty, they're a s*** football club. You need to go in there and show them who's boss because they've got no idea, and don't ever back down". My guess is he gave similar advice to Neeld, who completely blew it by disrespecting the senior playing core at Melbourne, as did Watters at St Kilda. You don't go into a new football club and treat everyone like they're idiots, no matter who you are.

Just might be nail, hammer, head.

[samoht]

Build your own SWatters ....

[SaintPav]

From memory, we had a very soft draw in 2013 playing dud teams twice etc and hardly beat anyone above us, if anyone.

I think we would have played finals under RL.

Watters needed to bide his time and gain the trust of the players, particularly the senior playing group before he threw down the gauntlet.

Again, from memory, RL dropped Milne and Dal Santo in a crunch game in his SECOND year. It seemed to work a treat as we ended up finishing top 4 that year and it was the start of a big run.

Lyon bided his time and gained the respect of the playing group first but Watters was a d**khead from the get-go.

[Scollop]

You can only assess the SW ‘era’ in the context of the politics at play after he joined the club. The senior clique and too many egos were getting in the way of allowing the club to move forward. Add the salary cap issues and the poor years of drafting before he arrived and you have a formula that equals St Kilda being where we are now

There was a comprehensive thread last year on Scott Watters with lots of different views and also articles posted from the Heraldsun with the facts surrounding the salary cap problems; http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... y#p1812334

One of the reasons that I reckon people dislike Watters is that he is prepared to tell it how it is. People don’t like hearing the truth when it doesn’t suit them

In hindsight....maybe Scott Watters primary intent was to do what was best for the St Kilda football club to elevate again and become a contender. Perhaps some of the others involved in the politics that led to his sacking had their own self-interest as their first priority

[saintspremiers]

I reckon The Richo looked good in comparison to Twatters.

And they both couldn’t coach for shyte!

[freely]

It's interesting with the Malthouse proteges, isn't it? Watters, Laidley, Neeld. The influence of Malthouse may have been to give those guys the confidence to do it, but did he also influence their method, their people management, and their attitude toward their new clubs? Malthouse had no respect for St Kilda, that was clear. So....did he tell Watters......"Hey Scotty, they're a s*** football club. You need to go in there and show them who's boss because they've got no idea, and don't ever back down". My guess is he gave similar advice to Neeld, who completely blew it by disrespecting the senior playing core at Melbourne, as did Watters at St Kilda. You don't go into a new football club and treat everyone like they're idiots, no matter who you are.

Interesting about Malthouse. I wonder if he was miffed when he was let go all those years ago, thought he'd taught the powers that be a lesson by becoming a star at Richmond and kept expecting to be invited back to coach. I'm an amateur psychologist, as you see.

[shanegrambeau]

It's interesting with the Malthouse proteges, isn't it? Watters, Laidley, Neeld. The influence of Malthouse may have been to give those guys the confidence to do it, but did he also influence their method, their people management, and their attitude toward their new clubs? Malthouse had no respect for St Kilda, that was clear. So....did he tell Watters......"Hey Scotty, they're a s*** football club. You need to go in there and show them who's boss because they've got no idea, and don't ever back down". My guess is he gave similar advice to Neeld, who completely blew it by disrespecting the senior playing core at Melbourne, as did Watters at St Kilda. You don't go into a new football club and treat everyone like they're idiots, no matter who you are.

Interesting about Malthouse. I wonder if he was miffed when he was let go all those years ago, thought he'd taught the powers that be a lesson by becoming a star at Richmond and kept expecting to be invited back to coach. I'm an amateur psychologist, as you see.

MMmmnn. And it was Yabby that told him to march unless he wanted to play at 11am a lot. Then he was Yabby’s rival coach throughout the 80s . Malthouses successes came just after Yabby retired too.

[shanegrambeau]

You can only assess the SW ‘era’ in the context of the politics at play after he joined the club. The senior clique and too many egos were getting in the way of allowing the club to move forward. Add the salary cap issues and the poor years of drafting before he arrived and you have a formula that equals St Kilda being where we are now

There was a comprehensive thread last year on Scott Watters with lots of different views and also articles posted from the Heraldsun with the facts surrounding the salary cap problems; http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... y#p1812334

One of the reasons that I reckon people dislike Watters is that he is prepared to tell it how it is. People don’t like hearing the truth when it doesn’t suit them

In hindsight....maybe Scott Watters primary intent was to do what was best for the St Kilda football club to elevate again and become a contender. Perhaps some of the others involved in the politics that led to his sacking had their own self-interest as their first priority

Thank you Scollop.
Great link.

Yes, it was discussed and taking a glance over it now it seems the conclusions are,

The “hiding to nothing/poisoned chalice“ story redeems Watters in some ways.

The Seaford move.

Loss of stars, remaining older ones not feeling the love.

Seaford again!

Watters tried to change the culture for sure, and maybe that was impossible.

What always hurts is asking how we might have modeled Sydney, Geelong and Hawthorn and how they never faced the “cliff” Watters alludes to, that only ol St Kilda were facing.