Ball Movement

[True Blue Sainter]

Well, well, well.

What a disappointing night.

For long periods we controlled the game, but just couldn't put it on the scoreboard. The same familiar story for us long suffering fans.

Surely, the players and coaching staff got a front row seat as to how to:

a) absorb pressure
and
b) MOVE THE FRICKEN BALL

West Coast were missing some of their class players in Yeo, Shuey and Redden, but had no issues moving the ball. Everyone who got it was composed, and more often than not found the right target. Whenever we had it, it was boringly predictable. As the camera was panning across you didn't even have to look. You just knew McGovern or Barass (After McGov went off) would be there. Pathetic.

The times we looked dangerous were when the ball was on the DECK. But we never kicked it in low or in to space. Just popped it straight up in the air for their intercept markers.

We just aren't very good. And that's from our coachign staff to our C grade midfield (which might push B grade if Hanners ever can stay on the park for more than 2 games and Gresh comes back)

[bigcarl]

Apart from kicking goals rather than points, scoring is all about creating space in the forward line.

It is incredibly frustrating to dominate for long stretches, then concede a goal as the ball rebounds to a wide-open defence.

We need to find ways to ensure our forward line is wide open and theirs is flooded.

Maybe you play an extra couple behind the ball. Just have a four-man forward line and make sure those four are hard to beat one on one.

I dunno, it just can’t be that hard. Bombing to numbers isn’t the answer. It’s not a bad option when there is no other option, but you can get killed on the rebound.

[True Blue Sainter]

Apart from kicking goals rather than points, scoring is all about creating space in the forward line.

It is incredibly frustrating to dominate for long stretches, then concede a goal as the ball rebounds to a wide-open defence.

We need to find ways to ensure our forward line is wide open and theirs is flooded.

Maybe you play an extra couple behind the ball. Just have a four-man forward line and make sure those four are hard to beat one on one.

I dunno, it just can’t be that hard. Bombing to numbers isn’t the answer. It’s not a bad option when there is no other option, but you can get killed on the rebound.

Well said, therein lies the problem.

Years of torment as a Saints fan have shown us that with every missed opportunity at our end, you know it's going to come back to bite us on our backsides as the opposition will undoubtedly get one against the run of the play which swings the momentum of the game.

Look how the Eagles backed in their defence to beat us, and when they finally had control of the ball, they were able to find space easily, and just zig zag the ball through our "zone" with neat little 25-30m passes

[Devilhead]

They kicked 11 points and not once did we try something different like go long down the middle the shortest way home on a wet night

With that camera angle behind the goals it wasn't like they were filling the centre square and most of the time it was just two 1 on 1's with every one else on the flank/wing

Seriously in a game like that roll the fkn dice and be prepared that if the ball does come back just make sure your direct opponent is covered.

At least it will make the opposition second guess and think twice about where the ball might go and then that in turn might allow you to play the game on your terms but bombing it long to the wing every single kick out doesn't change a thing and it makes it so easy for the opposition to keep rebounding the ball back into their forward zone .... cause hey ...... they know what you are going to do.

Seriously Ratten has me concerned - Tigers have won 2 Premierships playing a risky exciting brand of football but currently we are as predictable and boring as a dead goat

It has to change this week ..... whether it player led or coach led ..... something has to change!

[carn_sainter]

Unfortunately, the only reason we are any better than 2019 is personnel improvement, as well as we are better structured around stoppages.

We still, just as bad as last year, are horrible with
- moving ball from a kick in
- defending kick ins
- moving ball from defence when not on a turnover
- moving ball into attack
- presenting up to the ball carrier
- finding targets inside 50
- making targets inside 50
- converting inside 50s into goals

It's really quite awful to watch. It's like watching somebody bang their head against a wall over and over. I'm not impressed with the coaching - they've done alright in fostering the improved players, and we seem to be pretty cohesive, but we still play super dumb footy. Ratten blaming the 2nd quarter only is a red flag, for me.

The last 6 games we have scored 45 goals 59 behinds...a per game average of about 7.5 goals 10

Pro-rated to 2019 game lengths, that's a total of 56 goals, 74....a per game average of about 9 goals 12

In other words, we are back to completely lacking firepower...but it's not actually a firepower issue, it's a ball movement issue.

We're just way too easy to defend. WCE were absolutely hobbled in this one, but we played into their hands, as we play into everyone's hands.

[Devilhead]

West Coast 5th game in 19 days

This loss looks worse with every passing minute

[sks023]

I think I saw one mark forward from a lead last night
Kick it long and high and get crumbs isn't going to cut it

[SaintPav]

Unfortunately, the only reason we are any better than 2019 is personnel improvement, as well as we are better structured around stoppages.

We still, just as bad as last year, are horrible with
- moving ball from a kick in
- defending kick ins
- moving ball from defence when not on a turnover
- moving ball into attack
- presenting up to the ball carrier
- finding targets inside 50
- making targets inside 50
- converting inside 50s into goals

It's really quite awful to watch. It's like watching somebody bang their head against a wall over and over. I'm not impressed with the coaching - they've done alright in fostering the improved players, and we seem to be pretty cohesive, but we still play super dumb footy. Ratten blaming the 2nd quarter only is a red flag, for me.

The last 6 games we have scored 45 goals 59 behinds...a per game average of about 7.5 goals 10

Pro-rated to 2019 game lengths, that's a total of 56 goals, 74....a per game average of about 9 goals 12

In other words, we are back to completely lacking firepower...but it's not actually a firepower issue, it's a ball movement issue.

We're just way too easy to defend. WCE were absolutely hobbled in this one, but we played into their hands, as we play into everyone's hands.

Excellent points and all true.

You've nailed the diagnosis. Now, what's the treatment (don't feel like you need to answer that).

[SaintDippa]

If he does nothing else today let's hope Ratts reads this thread.
Then Giants game he plays same 22 and instructs no backwards kicks, ball is always in motion, kicks are low darts not hospital loops and forwards are only kicked the footy on leads. We'll win by plenty.

[The_Dud]

We haven’t moved the ball well since the Sydney game. Watch us in the first half of the year and compare it to now.

You could ask every man and his dog what not to do against West Coast and they’d say “don’t just bomb it in to the forward line”, and what did we do over and over and over...?

[Impatient Sainter]

Agree with TBS - where has our quick ball movement gone? We have morphed back into the 2019 game plan of switch it slowly, chip it down the wings and bomb it to our forwards. While the entire opposition side has had time to move back into our F50 quadrant.

Once again we let the opposition dominate a 1/4 it simply has to be addressed.

Good teams dare to win when the pressure is on - we still let oppositions score too easily...

Ratts and his coaches need to go back and review the games we won taking the opposition on.

[Yorkeys]

I wouldn't be surprised if it is sadly as simple as too many players are just not following instruction because they can't think on their feet and revert to Richardsonism. As highlighted elsewhere on the forum our forwards cannot create space or work as a unit and this doesn't give ball carriers much option - it takes two to tango. I am watching for another round of significant player turnover/role changes in 2021, particularly as some of the younger players will have developed physically.

[WellardSaint]

We haven’t moved the ball well since the Sydney game. Watch us in the first half of the year and compare it to now.

You could ask every man and his dog what not to do against West Coast and they’d say “don’t just bomb it in to the forward line”, and what did we do over and over and over...?

There's a tribe in the Amazon that were saying 'Geez, why bomb it fwd, McGov just keeps picking it off!'

Everyone knows it. He went off, told Barrass to just follow his lead...

At one point of Q2, the TV said we had it in our F50 for 94% WTF

[minneapolis]

We haven’t moved the ball well since the Sydney game. Watch us in the first half of the year and compare it to now.

You could ask every man and his dog what not to do against West Coast and they’d say “don’t just bomb it in to the forward line”, and what did we do over and over and over...?

and over and over again...

[stkfc1]

The problem I'm seeing is players once getting ball.are kicking the ball.in hope. They seem to have a 'kick it forward at all cost' mentality. A few times players as soon as they received the ball just kick it as far as possible without even looking ahead to read the play. I think it was Kent, he had a paddock to run into and try to set up a play, but just bombed as long as he could, straight to a WC player by himself. Dumb, panic football.

[samuraisaint]

And lets not forget the St Kilda double act - the floating handballs easily intercepted by opposition and then streaking into their foward line like a bullet.
Or the over-the-shoulder-without-looking-handball to nobody in particular which goes inevitably straight to the opposition.
But my personal fave this season has been in the dying minutes of matches that we are behind in, only by a few points, and we hit the boundary - sometimes out on the full - that's an all time show stopper!

[bangaulegend]

I think all these posts are pretty much on the money. Our skill level by hand & foot (especially under pressure) have been a major issue for years & doesn't seem to be improving . We have recruited Hill & Butler who are decent ball users but we have too many that are ball butchers & turn the ball over at the most crucial times that results in easy goals consistently. Until we can improve markedly we can never be a serious threat IMO

[happy feet]

When we were playing good footy early on in the year, the instruction to players seemed to be to run with the footy, take on the tackle and be aggressive. That seems to have now gone in favour of passing the ball around to retain possession, which gives the defence time to set its structure and lock us down.