What players are we likely to get in the trade

[Ghost Like]

No need to pray footynut, after last year I'm extremely confident our club & recruiting staff know exactly the type of players we require. We may lose someone we don't need to (Acres) but we will fill positions to make us infinitely better plus rid ourselves of list cloggers and salary leaches, as we did last year.

[saynta]

No need to pray footynut, after last year I'm extremely confident our club & recruiting staff know exactly the type of players we require. We may lose someone we don't need to (Acres) but we will fill positions to make us infinitely better plus rid ourselves of list cloggers and salary leaches, as we did last year.

Yeah but we were still paying a large part of the leach's salary this year

[saintkid]

How about we trade Billings for Bontempeli.
And seeing Billings was drafted ahead of the Bont we get some steak knives as well.

...and a rocket to put up the recruiters who took Billings before Bontempelli.

[SAINT-LEE]

What about Tom McDonald? We could run him down the backline...releasing Battle to the forward?!

[Ghost Like]

How about we trade Billings for Bontempeli.
And seeing Billings was drafted ahead of the Bont we get some steak knives as well.

...and a rocket to put up the recruiters who took Billings before Bontempelli.

I've been through posts prior to that draft and the only reference to the Bont is he was Dal's cousin. Billings was touted Top 3, the Bont wasn't. Whilst I'd love the Bont to be in Saints colours, let's face it, St Kilda's record of choosing or not choosing family links has been sh!thouse.

We did what was expected in that draft, the Doggies excelled.
We didn't do what was expected in Paddy's draft and Melbourne benefited.
We outsmarted ourselves in Judd's draft and West Coast pounced.
We chose Big Boy when many wanted Cyril. Both ended up Premiership players, at Hawthorn.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

[cwrcyn]

McEvoy....pfft...and there was Dangerfield for the taking. Probably our biggest mistake. Not selecting jack Riewoldt was a bit of blue as well

[samoht]

If we'd have traded our recruiters for Geelong's recruiters way back in 2008 or so (if that were possible, let's say), we would have enjoyed a sustained period of success with the same coach on board, not them - and they'd be trying desperately to catch up, as we are now and paying overs, and changing coaches, etc....

Sustained recruiting excellence = sustained success.

Nothing to do with who the coach is - it's all about the recruiters!!
(the coach is just the canary in the coal mine ... ).

[st.byron]

If we'd have traded our recruiters for Geelong's recruiters way back in 2008 or so (if that were possible, let's say), we would have enjoyed a sustained period of success with the same coach on board, not them - and they'd be trying desperately to catch up, as we are now and paying overs, and changing coaches, etc....

Sustained recruiting excellence = sustained success.

Nothing to do with who the coach is - it's all about the recruiters!!
(the coach is just the canary in the coal mine ... ).

Hindsight is awesome. Richo was a severely limiting factor, regardless of our personnel.

[samoht]

Hindsight is awesome. Richo was a severely limiting factor, regardless of our personnel.

Our recruiters were the limiting factor - have a look at how the Cats have sustained their success with their excellent recruiting - by identifying their needs and going after quality, not quantity!
... while we were amassing and tripling/quadrupling up on half back-flankers, D grade ruckmen, C-D grade midfielders with poor skills and small forwards --- apart from missing out on/overlooking obvious top-end talent (Bontompelli, Dangerfield, Riewoldt, etc..) and choosing McCartin as our no.1, etc...

... what's hindsight got to do with recruiting and amassing C and D grade mediocrity ....how many average half-back flankers, small forwards and D grade ruckmen are going to make up for our lack of A grade midfielders over the years?.
It's our lack of foresight/planning and setting recruiting standards if anything ... hopefully we've finally woken up to this - but we are St Kilda and there's always a coach to blame/sack.

[saynta]

GWS have a bunch of genuine class mids and they didn't even make the Finals

I can understand why people want them but there is no guarantee that they are going to make your team better - especially when you trade out other class players to get supposed other ones in

Someone like Taranto sounds great but I would ask the question why if he is so good why didn't GWS make Finals this year?

Carlton gave up the world for Judd ....... I think they won one final with him

Dangerfield has not won Geelong a Premiership

Did getting Kelly make West Coast a better side this year?

I am not saying all trades for gun mids don't work out but as the saying goes ....... be careful what you wish for!

There is no doubt that Billings has had an average end to the year (although no one was complaining about his first half) but all class players have form slumps during their careers and they usually find a way out.

Maybe Billings started to struggle being in the hub away from close family - maybe he is carrying a niggle we don't know about or is struggling with hard tags - there is no denying though that when he is on song he is one of the most damaging half forwards in the game and a game winner.

It seems the forum is split down the middle about Billings however I sit firmly in the pro-Billings camp and am willing to give the guy a chance to work through whatever form problems he is currently encountering.

As someone else pointed out he is cream not cake and what good is cake without the icing

Crouch is an interesting player and would fulfill a need as an extra hard body on the inside and at clearances which we desperately need - it is no secret that he has some off-field issues but it is whether club think they can iron these out and keep him injury free - of course being FA in terms of picks he will come for free and his age profile fits ...... much to ponder

Caldwell is a no brainer - class inside/outside mid who was a stand out junior - had a few injury issues early on and GWS made the decision to persevere with their under performing more experienced mid set up so he found himself in/out and was being played all over the place - just needs more senior game time but confident he will prove his worth down the line once he gets it - will cost probably our first (hopefully with a little something coming back)

Still need another KPF (to help King) / KPB (to cover loss of Brown) / another decent clearance mid (2nd one) - if Clark is that player (taken from backline) then a line breaking half back with good disposal would be handy - Witherden (Brisbane) has been mentioned as player that might be gettable.

We will also need back up for Ryder & Marshall at some stage

We may not fill all these needs this year but I am confident we finally have the right people in place to identify and get the right players in ........ at the right cost

No doubt some will disagree but that's what discussion forums are for

Sir, an excellent post.

[saynta]

Talk of trading Billings is absurd. Would make the best 22 of every team in the comp. Was also in our best on ground performers in our wins against Richmond, The Dogs and Port.

Bad clubs trade quality players. If St Kilda supporters haven't learnt that yet, then there's no helping us. Those sorts of decisions have haunted us for years. Look at BJ Goddard and McEvoy. We've only just found a ruckman in Marshall - and that's five or so years since McEvoy was traded!

Always keep quality players who want to play for the club. Can't stress that enough.

yep , pelican s*** really screwed us over with that one.

Savage..going, Dunstan...going, Acres...gone.

f****** brilliant....NOT.

[saynta]

McEvoy....pfft...and there was Dangerfield for the taking. Probably our biggest mistake. Not selecting jack Riewoldt was a bit of blue as well

I would have taken Riolli.

[st.byron]

Hindsight is awesome. Richo was a severely limiting factor, regardless of our personnel.

Our recruiters were the limiting factor - have a look at how the Cats have sustained their success with their excellent recruiting - by identifying their needs and going after quality, not quantity!
... while we were amassing and tripling/quadrupling up on half back-flankers, D grade ruckmen, C-D grade midfielders with poor skills and small forwards --- apart from missing out on/overlooking obvious top-end talent (Bontompelli, Dangerfield, Riewoldt, etc..) and choosing McCartin as our no.1, etc...

... what's hindsight got to do with recruiting and amassing C and D grade mediocrity ....how many average half-back flankers, small forwards and D grade ruckmen are going to make up for our lack of A grade midfielders over the years?.
It's our lack of foresight/planning and setting recruiting standards if anything ... hopefully we've finally woken up to this - but we are St Kilda and there's always a coach to blame/sack.

Okay Samoht. I shouldn’t have responded coz we’ve been down this road before . Agree that recruiting was poor under Richo / Elshaug. And.....Richo was rubbish as a senior coach and that had a massive impact on the players and on our capacity to trade for quality. Not going to discuss it any further with you. Cheers

[saynta]

Hindsight is awesome. Richo was a severely limiting factor, regardless of our personnel.

Our recruiters were the limiting factor - have a look at how the Cats have sustained their success with their excellent recruiting - by identifying their needs and going after quality, not quantity!
... while we were amassing and tripling/quadrupling up on half back-flankers, D grade ruckmen, C-D grade midfielders with poor skills and small forwards --- apart from missing out on/overlooking obvious top-end talent (Bontompelli, Dangerfield, Riewoldt, etc..) and choosing McCartin as our no.1, etc...

... what's hindsight got to do with recruiting and amassing C and D grade mediocrity ....how many average half-back flankers, small forwards and D grade ruckmen are going to make up for our lack of A grade midfielders over the years?.
It's our lack of foresight/planning and setting recruiting standards if anything ... hopefully we've finally woken up to this - but we are St Kilda and there's always a coach to blame/sack.

Okay Samoht. I shouldn’t have responded coz we’ve been down this road before . Agree that recruiting was poor under Richo / Elshaug. And.....Richo was rubbish as a senior coach and that had a massive impact on the players and on our capacity to trade for quality. Not going to discuss it any further with you. Cheers

[Impatient Sainter]

It looks like Collingwood are trying force Treloar out, my guess would be to have a real go at Jeremy Cameron. Strategically for Collingwood it is the right move as they will never win one until they have a genuine A grade forward.

Treloar is not wanting to leave and Collingwood want next years 1st round for him. Will make for some interesting times over the trade period. My take if Collingwood want to salary dump a player they take in trade what they are offerred (2nd round).

[samoht]

Recruiting was rubbish/poor pre-Richo, too, st byron - RL probably had a Lyon share of it.

[st.byron]

Recruiting was rubbish/poor pre-Richo, too, st byron - RL probably had a Lyon share of it.

Who was recruiting manager before Elshaug?

[SaintPelican66]

Ross is garbage. Disgrace that he won last year's b and f ahead if marshall. Some people must just look at his stats and assume because he has 25 touches he's played well.
Never mind the fact that half of his touches either go to the opposition or put a team mate under pressure. People that continue to be impressed with garbage possessions only keep the saints happy with mediocre unskilled players. We need skill.

If you honestly think Ross is garbage then you either have no idea about footy or you are just Trolling.

[saynta]

Ross is garbage. Disgrace that he won last year's b and f ahead if marshall. Some people must just look at his stats and assume because he has 25 touches he's played well.
Never mind the fact that half of his touches either go to the opposition or put a team mate under pressure. People that continue to be impressed with garbage possessions only keep the saints happy with mediocre unskilled players. We need skill.

If you honestly think Ross is garbage then you either have no idea about footy or you are just Trolling.

Bit of both for what it's worth. f****** disgraceful comment

[samoht]

Who was recruiting manager before Elshaug?

beveridge?
so ross lyon/beveridge stunk it up, big time, recruiting-wise ...

the common factor/denominator is our poor recruiting over the last 8-10-12 years - compared to Geelong, etc..!!

[SaintPelican66]

Ross is garbage. Disgrace that he won last year's b and f ahead if marshall. Some people must just look at his stats and assume because he has 25 touches he's played well.
Never mind the fact that half of his touches either go to the opposition or put a team mate under pressure. People that continue to be impressed with garbage possessions only keep the saints happy with mediocre unskilled players. We need skill.

If you honestly think Ross is garbage then you either have no idea about footy or you are just Trolling.

Bit of both for what it's worth. f****** disgraceful comment

I got a week ban for my comment on Carlisle. Why is this comment allowed?

[saintkid]

How about we trade Billings for Bontempeli.
And seeing Billings was drafted ahead of the Bont we get some steak knives as well.

...and a rocket to put up the recruiters who took Billings before Bontempelli.

I've been through posts prior to that draft and the only reference to the Bont is he was Dal's cousin. Billings was touted Top 3, the Bont wasn't. Whilst I'd love the Bont to be in Saints colours, let's face it, St Kilda's record of choosing or not choosing family links has been sh!thouse.

We did what was expected in that draft, the Doggies excelled.
We didn't do what was expected in Paddy's draft and Melbourne benefited.
We outsmarted ourselves in Judd's draft and West Coast pounced.
We chose Big Boy when many wanted Cyril. Both ended up Premiership players, at Hawthorn.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Fair call Ghost Like

However, on top of Bontempelli's flagged talent at the time and his obvious physical attributes, it was not unexpected in my honest opinion and I'm sure others, that he would go thereabouts.

The Doggies knew something and were rapt to get him at no. 4. They have an absolute star, game winner, on-field leader and captain. Apologize for looking back but he was and is the type of player that would have accelerated our development over those leaner years.

In saying that, looking forward, we have made amends though with our 2017 picks in Clark and Coffield and King in 2018. Already both Clark and Coffield are on the cusp of being star players and on-field leaders which we badly need, like Steele and to a lesser extent Marshall. This quartet are really important in terms of our future prospects and hopefully King will join them in 2021 given his tremendous upside.

[saintsRrising]

How about we trade Billings for Bontempeli.
And seeing Billings was drafted ahead of the Bont we get some steak knives as well.

...and a rocket to put up the recruiters who took Billings before Bontempelli.

I've been through posts prior to that draft and the only reference to the Bont is he was Dal's cousin. Billings was touted Top 3, the Bont wasn't. Whilst I'd love the Bont to be in Saints colours, let's face it, St Kilda's record of choosing or not choosing family links has been sh!thouse.

We did what was expected in that draft, the Doggies excelled.
We didn't do what was expected in Paddy's draft and Melbourne benefited.
We outsmarted ourselves in Judd's draft and West Coast pounced.
We chose Big Boy when many wanted Cyril. Both ended up Premiership players, at Hawthorn.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Fair call Ghost Like

However, on top of Bontempelli's flagged talent at the time and his obvious physical attributes, it was not unexpected in my honest opinion and I'm sure others, that he would go thereabouts.

The Doggies knew something and were rapt to get him at no. 4. They have an absolute star, game winner, on-field leader and captain. Apologize for looking back but he was and is the type of player that would have accelerated our development over those leaner years.

In saying that, looking forward, we have made amends though with our 2017 picks in Clark and Coffield and King in 2018. Already both Clark and Coffield are on the cusp of being star players and on-field leaders which we badly need, like Steele and to a lesser extent Marshall. This quartet are really important in terms of our future prospects and hopefully King will join them in 2021 given his tremendous upside.

There would have been virtually no one picking the Bont over Billings at the time. The virtually no one being probably the Dogs recruiting team (Though as they picked after us even that is not known). But kudos to them.

However its is simply just daft to bitch and moan about our recruiters picking Billings.

The HS just after the 2013 Draft:

Will the Dogs' punt pay off?

No doubt Marcus Bontempelli is a risk at pick 4, but beefed up development resources, headed by the club's new stand-alone VFL team, will help unleash his potential.

Is the Blues' first pick a surprise?

In a way yes, because you would think they need another key forward. But Patrick Cripps is a general inside congestion and can help replace Chris Judd.

Have the Saints done the right thing?

Yes. List would have been in more trouble in two or three years without a bold injection of young talent. People will come to watch Jack Billings play and they will get a gun key forward next year.

The Guradian post-draft:
Western Bulldogs
Pick 4 – Marcus Bontempelli, Pick 42 - Matthew Fuller, Pick 60 - Mitch Honeychurch, Pick 84 – Brett Goodes (promoted rookie),

I think we can reasonably say that we’re at a point in the history of the draft where no kid taken in the Top 5 is an absolute stinker, but Bontempelli did raise a few eyebrows for going that early. He’s tall, versatile and according to a backhander from the AFL’s voicover man last night, “clearly needs to put on some weight”. Ouch. Sheehan called him “a big mover”. Take that as you will. Bontempelli actually took the bull by the horns and compared himself to Scott Pendlebury rather than waiting for the pundits to do so. I quite enjoyed that moment.

Emma Quayle at the time was well connected with club recuiters. She had the Bont at 4.
https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/stor ... rediction/

3 ST KILDA: JACK BILLINGS

(Oakleigh Chargers, 185cm, 76kg)

Clever, dynamic half-forward with a brilliant kick.

THE RATIONALE: At this point, the Saints just need to keep getting good players through the door. Billings is an extremely classy one, with a sharp eye, excellent foot skills and an ability to set the agenda in a game. Should develop into a midfielder before too long.

THE COMPLICATION: The Saints have done plenty of work on Matthew Scharenberg, with James Aish another who has been considered.

Jack Billings

4 WESTERN BULLDOGS: MARCUS BONTEMPELLI

(Northern Knights, 194cm, 84kg)

A tall, running half-back who could develop into a super-sized midfielder.

THE RATIONALE: Tall midfielders are all the rage, these days. Bontempelli has shown he can play off back, on a wing and in the forward line. By the end of the season he was doing it in the centre square. He has a big body, excellent vision in traffic and a diligent nature.

THE COMPLICATION: Jack Billings would be hard to pass up, if available. James Aish and Matthew Scharenberg could also be considered.

[Scoop]

Who was recruiting manager before Elshaug?

beveridge?
so ross lyon/beveridge stunk it up, big time, recruiting-wise ...

the common factor/denominator is our poor recruiting over the last 8-10-12 years - compared to Geelong, etc..!!

I think you'll find John Peake preceded Trout.

[Saints58]

well some very interesting responses thanks guys a lot to talk about.
I would not give up billings or Lonnie as they are goal kickers and we don't have many mids kicking goals.
Phillips is very valuable and still young I would however give up Sinclair we have many players like him and has pace but not much else.
I don't think we would get a lot for McKenzie, but if no deal is done with Carlisle he is worth a few picks if bundled up.
Caldwell should be a priority and all so Charlie Cameron not often players like him come on the market so we should go for it.
We defiantly need a back up big in defence it showed out against Brisbane ,Westcoast, Melbourne great teams have a good spine with mids around them.
thanks
Ray