Webster and Dunstan to Adelaide

[johnearljames]

Must be more coming our way.

[BadRossco]

Hope it’s not just part of the Crouch deal if so we have probably got the worst end of the bargain for a RFA

[Impatient Sainter]

Part of the Crouch deal so that the Crows get a Band 1 compensation, they take Dunstan & Webster for our salary cap relief and we get pick or picks in return. Another very smart deal by Gags if the AFL signs off on it.

[older saint]

So actually separate deal to Crouch then?
Are we saying we get Crouch FA - front end the deal so Adelaide get pick 2
Separate trade we send Dunstan and Webster to Adelaide and they send back picks ( perhaps split 2 into 2 other first rounders or first and early second?)

[SaintPelican66]

Must be more coming our way.

They should also send Roberton as well.

Adelaide gains :
Roberton, Webster & Dunstan

St Kilda gains :
Heaps of salary cap releif and pick 30

[johnearljames]

Not sure whats happening to be honest.

FA wages are spread out across the length of the deal so you can't front load them to help out the other club.

[johnearljames]

Let's be honest. Webster and Dunstan aren't best 22 anymore.

[portosaint]

Possibly someone on the radar who requires the cap space and/or pick from Dunstan and Jimmy. If so, could be a good deal for both clubs.

If not... Well, that wouldn't make much sense.

[Impatient Sainter]

Possibly someone on the radar who requires the cap space and/or pick from Dunstan and Jimmy. If so, could be a good deal for both clubs.

If not... Well, that wouldn't make much sense.

OR it requires us paying Crouch more to trigger the Band 1 compensation for Adelaide, so we actually require cap space relief to do that. I dont think our cap would have that much room after last years recruiting?

[portosaint]

Possibly someone on the radar who requires the cap space and/or pick from Dunstan and Jimmy. If so, could be a good deal for both clubs.

If not... Well, that wouldn't make much sense.

OR it requires us paying Crouch more to trigger the Band 1 compensation for Adelaide, so we actually require cap space relief to do that. I dont think our cap would have that much room after last years recruiting?

That's that bit that wouldn't make sense to me. Adelaide's compensation is not our problem. Silly of us to pay more to benefit another club. I'm hopeful there's more to it.

[skeptic]

Possibly someone on the radar who requires the cap space and/or pick from Dunstan and Jimmy. If so, could be a good deal for both clubs.

If not... Well, that wouldn't make much sense.

OR it requires us paying Crouch more to trigger the Band 1 compensation for Adelaide, so we actually require cap space relief to do that. I dont think our cap would have that much room after last years recruiting?

That's that bit that wouldn't make sense to me. Adelaide's compensation is not our problem. Silly of us to pay more to benefit another club. I'm hopeful there's more to it.

You’d gave to imagine that this move benefits us in some way otherwise yeah what’s the point.
Reckon we either have to get picks back, there’s another trade in the works, or that we walk away from it with more cap space

[ace]

So actually separate deal to Crouch then?
Are we saying we get Crouch FA - front end the deal so Adelaide get pick 2
Separate trade we send Dunstan and Webster to Adelaide and they send back picks ( perhaps split 2 into 2 other first rounders or first and early second?)

Webster is contracted for 2021 and Dunstan for 2022.
We can not gift Dunstan and Webster to Adelaide.
AFL will require Adelaide must give us reasonable value in picks for each.
But the AFL can NOT insist that we continue to pay them once they become Adelaide players.
We may be trading out fringe players to clear salary space but we are still trading them out.
Anything we pay Crouch is entirely paid by St Kilda and comes entirely out of St Kilda cap.

Adelaide wants pick 2 as free agent compensation.
Adelaide would want us to front end Couch contract so that he delivers them pick 2.
That means he must get paid top 5% of his age group, and St Kilda pays the lot.

[ace]

So if we are going to over pay Crouch to deliver Adelaide pick 2, Adelaide's picks for Webster and Dunstan need to be excessive but not too excessive to be rejected by the AFL.

[remboy]

I can’t understand why we would overpay Crouch for the next four or five years, which would impact our salary cap and ability to resign players for the duration of the contract.
If Adelaide want more than the compo pick, fine we’ll give them a sweetener in a separate trade. Webster or Dunstan for a swap of picks.

[fugazi]

Nice $50,000 a year windfall for Crouch

Wish I could get a bonus from my new employer to keep my old employer happy.

[takeaway]

Sounds like a form of draft tampering to me. "Artificially" inflating a player's contract so the club losing the player gets better compensation. I thought the FA banding consideration was based over the whole term of the contract, so front ending would not be relevant. If they are simply going to increase Crouch's overall contract due to the salary dump of losing Dunstan & Webster, that will not auger well in future contract negotiations with the rest of the players.

If the AFL lets this go through, many future FA deals will be using "expendable" players to increase the compensation. Doubt they'll allow it, or am I misunderstanding the deal?

[fugazi]

Webster and Dunstan are two good players. Both could come into a side and perform well.

[ace]

I don't suppose there is any interest in these contracted players Joyce, McKenzie

[Selhurst Saint]

Where was this information actually posted?

[Impatient Sainter]

Sounds like a form of draft tampering to me. "Artificially" inflating a player's contract so the club losing the player gets better compensation. I thought the FA banding consideration was based over the whole term of the contract, so front ending would not be relevant. If they are simply going to increase Crouch's overall contract due to the salary dump of losing Dunstan & Webster, that will not auger well in future contract negotiations with the rest of the players.

If the AFL lets this go through, many future FA deals will be using "expendable" players to increase the compensation. Doubt they'll allow it, or am I misunderstanding the deal?

I must say the more it comes out in the media the less I think the AFL will be inclined to approve it. But the AFL did say they would give compensation value's on contracts before they were submitted. Perhaps its the AFL's method of attempting to be more transparent in the compensation process, but as you say it opens up the 'draft tampering' window.

[saintsRrising]

Where was this information actually posted?

Well most likely from the same place as this:

SEN (Garry Lyon the grass-cutter) says JWeb n Dunstan go to Crows in a trade for Crouch

Why the OP has to pretend to be an ITK two to three hours later boggles the mind.

Congrats to WellardSaint for showing how it is done. ie Post the source.

Or it could have been the SEN online report 30 minutes prior to the OP.

FOR MORE DETIALS ON THE HYPOTHETICAL or RUMMOURED DEAL BELOW

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/22/ ... otiations/

Garry Lyon read out the latest trade news from his ‘8:30am’ insider on SEN Breakfast this morning.

The report suggested St Kilda and Adelaide struck an agreement as part of Brad Crouch’s decision to join the Saints in free agency.

That deal will see the Crows take on a pair of Saints players to give salary cap relief and allow St Kilda to pay Crouch enough to grant Adelaide top-bracket compensation.

“St Kilda and the Crows got together for a deal RE: Brad Crouch to ensure Adelaide gets compensation pick number two,” Lyon read on SEN Breakfast.

“The thought is the money was not high enough to give him the compensation.

“Initially the Crouch money fell under the compensation to make it happen, so the Saints bumped up his wage to get the average over $700,000, originally $550,000, which wasn’t enough.

“In turn, the Crows will take both Jimmy Webster and Luke Dunstan in exchange for a set of steak knife, late draft choices.

“The Crows are taking them off St Kilda’s salary cap, hence the upgrade for Crouch and pick two.”

Webster, 27, did not play a game for the Saints in 2020, while Dunstan played one before a season-ending pectoral injury.


Note that Webster contract is to end of 2022, and Dunstan's to only end of next year. So with Crouch on longterm deal we would need to be careful.

Also will the AFL just sit of their hands and award pick 2? AFLL does owe us some favours though.

Benefit to Saints s that if rows match we would have to trade and that may be more than just our first round, though arguably that is around a fair trade.

Crouch however gets a stack more money., and that could cause problems with other Saint we need to re-sign. Unless the contract can just be higher in only years 1 and 2.


CH7

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/rival-cl ... -c-1441489

[johnearljames]

No, I read it on SEN. Good website.

[saintbob]

Knowing Jimmy, I reckon he’ll pull the pin on his AFL career if the Saints try to trade him to the Crows.

[SinCitySainter]

The discussion point for the saints is not that we are boosting Crouch's salary to gift Adelaide pick 2 but to ensure they don't match. That is a perfectly valid thing for us to do.
A secondary deal for Adelaide to get an experienced inside mid as a replacement for Crouch makes sense.
The only thing that the AFL could complain about was if the deal for Dunstan an Webster was ridiculously weighted in Adelaide's favour. As long as Adelaide give us a second round pick for the two players I don't see how the AFL can say anything about it.
Adelaide are losing Crouch they know that, they want Pick 2, everyone knows that. It makes little difference to St Kilda if they get pick 2 or second tier compensation. It is only an issue to St Kilda if they match and we then have to trade for him.

[SaintPelican66]

Not sure whats happening to be honest.

FA wages are spread out across the length of the deal so you can't front load them to help out the other club.

Yes you can.
Ofer Crouch a 2 year contract at $1m per year. That's it.

But deep down inside he knows that when those 2 years expire he will only get $400k per year for 2 years for his next contract.