Dangerous gun midfielders or onballers

[leighsaintsince66]

In my 55 years of following the saints I cannot recall any gun mid or onballers who are really scary matchups when moved forward on a big stage.

By this I mean dusty types (best I've ever known), danger to a far lesser extent, big Nick, KB, lethal and look away now...- jarmen.

Stewart, no. Smithie, no. Banger, no. Burkie, no. Lenny, no. BJ (could have been...imagine if he was at FF in the last 2 minutes of the 2010 GF), Stuv, no.
Steele, no. Possibly Gresham in the future, especially if he a had a bigger tank?

IMO Spider could have been that player. But he may have also given away a 50 metre penalty.

Most premiership teams don't have a gun midfielder or onballer who is highly dangerous up forward.

If we had such a player however, could that player be the missing piece in the jigsaw?

[The Billings Method]

Christian Petracca. Oh wait.............

[leighsaintsince66]

Good call. I did think of mentioning Petracca.
Yeap, oh wait.........

[The_Dud]

Winmar?

[Harves Man]

Winmar?

Yes, of course - don't know why I didn't think of him immediately. Didn't he kick 8 goals whilst filling in at Full Forward, for big Tony? He did amazingly well there, when you consider he must have been the lightest player ever to have played Full Forward at this level - especially if you had compared him to the incumbent at the time!

[nostalgicsaint]

Dal Santo and BJ both did well when forward.

Clarke before injuries.

They however spent very little time forward due to the quality of our forwards in that time, both tall and small.

[Scollop]

Not a Saint but Poiter went alright too

No.. not Matera, I meant the Macedonian Marvel

[CURLY]

Winmar, Goddard,

[B.M]

Dangerous mids are not just ones that kick goals, it’s more the mids that create play to set up or score goals.

Rob Harvey was asked about why he didn’t kick to many

His answer was simple
Why would I have a shot from 45 on the run when I can pass it to the best player in the team who can have a set shot from 25.

I obviously rate Harvey as the most dangerous mid, simply because he was the best mid.
Making 8 AA teams probably means he was the best mid in the AFL in the 90s.

Outside of that
Winmar and Lenny were champions

Not old enough to remember Stewart he must have been some player!

[skeptic]

Dangerous mids are not just ones that kick goals, it’s more the mids that create play to set up or score goals.

Rob Harvey was asked about why he didn’t kick to many

His answer was simple
Why would I have a shot from 45 on the run when I can pass it to the best player in the team who can have a set shot from 25.

I obviously rate Harvey as the most dangerous mid, simply because he was the best mid.
Making 8 AA teams probably means he was the best mid in the AFL in the 90s.

Outside of that
Winmar and Lenny were champions

Not old enough to remember Stewart he must have been some player!

I feel like the quality you’re describing is sow variation of the term ‘match winners’.

Kicking goals or not, all three of the players you mentioned beat the opposition and did things that won us games in abundance

[saynta]

Dangerous mids are not just ones that kick goals, it’s more the mids that create play to set up or score goals.

Rob Harvey was asked about why he didn’t kick to many

His answer was simple
Why would I have a shot from 45 on the run when I can pass it to the best player in the team who can have a set shot from 25.

I obviously rate Harvey as the most dangerous mid, simply because he was the best mid.
Making 8 AA teams probably means he was the best mid in the AFL in the 90s.

Outside of that
Winmar and Lenny were champions

Not old enough to remember Stewart he must have been some player!

That he was but the doc was a better match winner.

[whiskers3614]

Dangerous mids are not just ones that kick goals, it’s more the mids that create play to set up or score goals.

Rob Harvey was asked about why he didn’t kick to many

His answer was simple
Why would I have a shot from 45 on the run when I can pass it to the best player in the team who can have a set shot from 25.

I obviously rate Harvey as the most dangerous mid, simply because he was the best mid.
Making 8 AA teams probably means he was the best mid in the AFL in the 90s.

Outside of that
Winmar and Lenny were champions

Not old enough to remember Stewart he must have been some player!

That he was but the doc was a better match winner.

And wore trousers!

[B.M]

Have only seen the 66 GF footage from the 60s

Both players champions and sadly both only played about 120 games!

Stewart was outstanding in the 66 grand final, probably second BOG

[leighsaintsince66]

Dangerous mids are not just ones that kick goals, it’s more the mids that create play to set up or score goals.

Rob Harvey was asked about why he didn’t kick to many

His answer was simple
Why would I have a shot from 45 on the run when I can pass it to the best player in the team who can have a set shot from 25.

I obviously rate Harvey as the most dangerous mid, simply because he was the best mid.
Making 8 AA teams probably means he was the best mid in the AFL in the 90s.

Outside of that
Winmar and Lenny were champions

Not old enough to remember Stewart he must have been some player!

Good post BM.

Rob Harvey actually played for 14 more seasons after Tony went to the Swans.

During those years at various stages he had Loewe, Heater or the G Train at full forward.

I rate him as good if not better than Voss, Buckley and Hird and feel that his contributions have been underrated by numerous 'experts' in the media.

Do you think he would have been a goal kicking match winner in his own right without the above forward players?

(I'll never forget his performance in the 2005 Qualifying Final against Adelaide). What a great evening and subseqent drive home that was!

Did he have other goal kicking performances like that?

[B.M]

Robert Harvey is definitely underrated!!!

Especially when you hear things like his greatest asset was his endurance.

I would say he was a little more than a guy who could run
He won the footy, was one touch, was creative, elite handballer, rarely missed a target by foot, was powerful, strong and surprisingly quick! Probably his movement to get in and out of heavy traffic that is unparalleled.

Lockett is the best player I have seen in a Saints jumper at his peak

But Harvey is greatest saint
Why?

He played 21 seasons and 383 games (more than anyone)
He was All Australian a ridiculous 8 times (more than anyone)
He won 2 Brownlows (equal with Stewart)
He won 4 B&Fs (only second to Nick)
Top 3 in the B&F 10 times (better than anyone)
Arguably best player in the game in 97/98 unstoppable
All that and he was injured a lot between 99-2002 in his prime!
He also has more possessions than any other player!

He was a freak!!!

He played a game vs Carlton as an 17/18yo where he kicked 4 and had 36 disposals!
In 99 he had a lazy 45 and kicked 3
And of course he played the aforementioned final vs Adelaide at 33yo
From memory, his 350th was another big game?!

[leighsaintsince66]

Dangerous mids are not just ones that kick goals, it’s more the mids that create play to set up or score goals.

Rob Harvey was asked about why he didn’t kick to many

His answer was simple
Why would I have a shot from 45 on the run when I can pass it to the best player in the team who can have a set shot from 25.

I obviously rate Harvey as the most dangerous mid, simply because he was the best mid.
Making 8 AA teams probably means he was the best mid in the AFL in the 90s.

Outside of that
Winmar and Lenny were champions

Not old enough to remember Stewart he must have been some player!

That he was but the doc was a better match winner.

Here, here saynta.
And about the most skilful of all time!
Not talking about mids here, but in your eyes was he a better match winner than Jesaulenko?

[carn_sainter]

Robert Harvey is definitely underrated!!!

Especially when you hear things like his greatest asset was his endurance.

I would say he was a little more than a guy who could run
He won the footy, was one touch, was creative, elite handballer, rarely missed a target by foot, was powerful, strong and surprisingly quick! Probably his movement to get in and out of heavy traffic that is unparalleled.

Good post. People tend to remember only 21st century Harvey - who was still a gut runner, but not explosive, didn't carry the ball much, just amassed a tonne of it and made excellent decisions and disposals rarely greater than 40m.

Harvey all through the 90s was brutally explosive. It is no exaggeration to compare his explosiveness to prime Judd. This has been forgotten. I can't think of a St.Kilda player like it off the top of my head in the last 20 years.

Another misconception is he just ran...as if there was no nous behind where he was running. Harvey knew the game and read the play brilliantly - both in the tiny space of a stoppage and in the 180m open field of Waverley...he always ran to the right spots.

Lastly on speed, nobody's ever outrun a ball. Harvey's disposal speed and accuracy were as good as there has been. Some players are gifted with 360 degree vision up to about 5-8m; Harvey had it up to 20 or 30m. His handballing out of traffic is still the archetype of perfection. Speed is therefore also cumulative...compare a fast break where Jack Steven disposes of the ball inaccurately and his target doesn't get it, or has to break stride...speed is all gone. Rob Harvey's targets rarely if ever had to break stride. In fact, it would be clear that nobody has disposed of the ball to that standard of accuracy that many times in the history of the sport.

[Harves Man]

Robert Harvey is definitely underrated!!!

Especially when you hear things like his greatest asset was his endurance.

I would say he was a little more than a guy who could run
He won the footy, was one touch, was creative, elite handballer, rarely missed a target by foot, was powerful, strong and surprisingly quick! Probably his movement to get in and out of heavy traffic that is unparalleled.

Lockett is the best player I have seen in a Saints jumper at his peak

But Harvey is greatest saint
Why?

He played 21 seasons and 383 games (more than anyone)
He was All Australian a ridiculous 8 times (more than anyone)
He won 2 Brownlows (equal with Stewart)
He won 4 B&Fs (only second to Nick)
Top 3 in the B&F 10 times (better than anyone)
Arguably best player in the game in 97/98 unstoppable
All that and he was injured a lot between 99-2002 in his prime!
He also has more possessions than any other player!

He was a freak!!!

He played a game vs Carlton as an 17/18yo where he kicked 4 and had 36 disposals!
In 99 he had a lazy 45 and kicked 3
And of course he played the aforementioned final vs Adelaide at 33yo
From memory, his 350th was another big game?!

Thanks Marto, great post and I really loved reading it!

[Harves Man]

Robert Harvey is definitely underrated!!!

Especially when you hear things like his greatest asset was his endurance.

I would say he was a little more than a guy who could run
He won the footy, was one touch, was creative, elite handballer, rarely missed a target by foot, was powerful, strong and surprisingly quick! Probably his movement to get in and out of heavy traffic that is unparalleled.

Good post. People tend to remember only 21st century Harvey - who was still a gut runner, but not explosive, didn't carry the ball much, just amassed a tonne of it and made excellent decisions and disposals rarely greater than 40m.

Harvey all through the 90s was brutally explosive. It is no exaggeration to compare his explosiveness to prime Judd. This has been forgotten. I can't think of a St.Kilda player like it off the top of my head in the last 20 years.

Another misconception is he just ran...as if there was no nous behind where he was running. Harvey knew the game and read the play brilliantly - both in the tiny space of a stoppage and in the 180m open field of Waverley...he always ran to the right spots.

Lastly on speed, nobody's ever outrun a ball. Harvey's disposal speed and accuracy were as good as there has been. Some players are gifted with 360 degree vision up to about 5-8m; Harvey had it up to 20 or 30m. His handballing out of traffic is still the archetype of perfection. Speed is therefore also cumulative...compare a fast break where Jack Steven disposes of the ball inaccurately and his target doesn't get it, or has to break stride...speed is all gone. Rob Harvey's targets rarely if ever had to break stride. In fact, it would be clear that nobody has disposed of the ball to that standard of accuracy that many times in the history of the sport.

Thank you so very much for this, simply delicious post! Needless to say, I totally agree, however, I'm almost shocked at your observational skills! The guy used to be underated by the media so often, for being slow (he was not slow and similar criticisms of Greg Williams were equally as asinine!) and somehow some pundits said his kicking wasn't that accurate. As you have pointed out - it was fantastic, when he was doing a short pass to a team mate, in very heavy traffic.

[B.M]

From 1997-1998 Robert Harvey was as dominant as you can get

He was an absolute machine!

Of course won the Brownlow in both years
He polled 58 Brownlow votes in the 2 years
Was AFL MVP in 97
Won every media award in both years
14 BOGs
1500 possessions

He was at the peak of his powers and the main reason we played finals in both years.
Freak Player

[CQ SAINT]

Harvey combined vision, speed and skill and he trained this way.
A slow looking Harvey had already picked his target and the spot he wanted to deliver the ball from. He used obstacles as a timing instrument, which would open the space he needed to dispose, as he altered his movement one way and then another.
Despite constant tagging and his uncanny ability to pick up the ball in heavy traffic, he was rarely rushed.
It was slow motion, executed with split second decision making, impeccable periphal vision and an absolute assuredness in his strength speed and hand eye coordination.
He was a genius.

[leighsaintsince66]

Robert Harvey is definitely underrated!!!

Especially when you hear things like his greatest asset was his endurance.

I would say he was a little more than a guy who could run
He won the footy, was one touch, was creative, elite handballer, rarely missed a target by foot, was powerful, strong and surprisingly quick! Probably his movement to get in and out of heavy traffic that is unparalleled.

Lockett is the best player I have seen in a Saints jumper at his peak

But Harvey is greatest saint
Why?

He played 21 seasons and 383 games (more than anyone)
He was All Australian a ridiculous 8 times (more than anyone)
He won 2 Brownlows (equal with Stewart)
He won 4 B&Fs (only second to Nick)
Top 3 in the B&F 10 times (better than anyone)
Arguably best player in the game in 97/98 unstoppable
All that and he was injured a lot between 99-2002 in his prime!
He also has more possessions than any other player!

He was a freak!!!

He played a game vs Carlton as an 17/18yo where he kicked 4 and had 36 disposals!
In 99 he had a lazy 45 and kicked 3
And of course he played the aforementioned final vs Adelaide at 33yo
From memory, his 350th was another big game?!

B.M., you are guilty of understating Rob's achievements.
He also won 3 EJ Whitten medals!

[magnifisaint]

Winmar?

Yes, of course - don't know why I didn't think of him immediately. Didn't he kick 8 goals whilst filling in at Full Forward, for big Tony? He did amazingly well there, when you consider he must have been the lightest player ever to have played Full Forward at this level - especially if you had compared him to the incumbent at the time!

9

[The Billings Method]

Winmar?

Yes, of course - don't know why I didn't think of him immediately. Didn't he kick 8 goals whilst filling in at Full Forward, for big Tony? He did amazingly well there, when you consider he must have been the lightest player ever to have played Full Forward at this level - especially if you had compared him to the incumbent at the time!

He won the goal kicking in 1988, didn't he after plugger broke his ankle? Second year player at the time who spent lots of time alternating between FF and on the ball. Absolute freak.

[The Billings Method]

I'm showing my age now, but Rod Owen would've been handy nowadays. I did play against him in school footy a couple of times when he was about 14 playing against the seniors. Still one of the best players, at junior level, that I've ever seen.

Oh, if only he hadn't discovered the joys of alcohol as a teenager. He could've been anything. Tragically, my final memory of Rod was him lying at the bottom of the stairs at the Saints' Disco, his nose splattered all over his blood stained face, courtesy of the bouncers.