Open letter (open post?) to Simon re permanent bannings.

[st.byron]

IMO, I don't think there are untouchables on here. There certainly weren't in my time as a mod and I'd be surprised if there were now. Remember it's a voluntary position. For inappropriate posts to come to the attention of the mod they need to be reported. As has been previously stated by numerous others, it's a pretty thankless task.
It's also a job being done by a human who's not perfect.
Am sure there are others who will disagree - asiu how ya going bro?
But on balance, the forum is heaps better than it was.
Remember - it's voluntary. BFUSA is spending his own time- unpaid to deal with all this so that we can post on here. A bit of slack and gratitude is appropriate in my opinion.

[roskilde]

IMO, I don't think there are untouchables on here. There certainly weren't in my time as a mod and I'd be surprised if there were now. Remember it's a voluntary position. For inappropriate posts to come to the attention of the mod they need to be reported. As has been previously stated by numerous others, it's a pretty thankless task.
It's also a job being done by a human who's not perfect.
Am sure there are others who will disagree - asiu how ya going bro?
But on balance, the forum is heaps better than it was.
Remember - it's voluntary. BFUSA is spending his own time- unpaid to deal with all this so that we can post on here. A bit of slack and gratitude is appropriate in my opinion.

I see where you're heading with this Byron. You're saying the gig should be paid and it should be me who gets the job -- well you didn't say that but I read between the lines and I think we all know you meant it.

Alright alright I'll take the job if it's what you really want. Just so you know I will use my power in the most abusive and arbitrary manner possible.

What's the pay?

[st.byron]

IMO, I don't think there are untouchables on here. There certainly weren't in my time as a mod and I'd be surprised if there were now. Remember it's a voluntary position. For inappropriate posts to come to the attention of the mod they need to be reported. As has been previously stated by numerous others, it's a pretty thankless task.
It's also a job being done by a human who's not perfect.
Am sure there are others who will disagree - asiu how ya going bro?
But on balance, the forum is heaps better than it was.
Remember - it's voluntary. BFUSA is spending his own time- unpaid to deal with all this so that we can post on here. A bit of slack and gratitude is appropriate in my opinion.

I see where you're heading with this Byron. You're saying the gig should be paid and it should be me who gets the job -- well you didn't say that but I read between the lines and I think we all know you meant it.

Alright alright I'll take the job if it's what you really want. Just so you know I will use my power in the most abusive and arbitrary manner possible.

What's the pay?

Massive I'm led to believe. Awesome that your intuitive reading between the lines went straight to the guts of my intention.

[happy feet]

I received 3 emails from one of our usual baiters. Threatening, abusive, aggressive and totally out of line. I reported them to Simon expecting a ban, that’s how bad they were, but no action was taken. Told to put on the ignore. Protected species.

You imply that you sent me these e-mails. You didn't. I cannot and will not take action on your word alone.

Evidence can still be sent to saintsationalentry@gmail.com

If they are as you claim "Threatening, abusive, aggressive and totally out of line." then they will be fully investigated and action taken if appropriate.

But I am not taking action just because you say it.

I thought I did send them? It appears I did not as the report function was not working. So I apologise for the above comment. I have now submitted them and I look forward to your response by PM.

[The_Dud]

diplomatic



but i think we all know
who signed off the banning with ... bye bye

almost like he enjoys his little power trip

Not necessarily mate. Could have been KFT or BFUSA coz both would probably be enabled to implement the ban.

More than a bit out of touch there.

You’re an abrasive f***** Mr. Rolly Eyes. All you needed to say is that KFT isn’t a mod any longer.

<1 day ban from commenting negatively on another poster>

This is what’s wrong with the site.

Constant little digs and disrespect (usually by a certain poster) go ignored, and when someone (rightly) bites back THEY cop a ban.

And it’s claimed there are no ‘untouchables’

How many times have you reported the ‘untouchables’?

I generally don’t like reporting people unless it’s for blatant homophobia/racism etc.

But as others have said already, if you raise anything you just get told to ignore it.

I had a PM discussion with the boss a few months ago after I was banned for my part in a back and forth with a certain poster (even though what I was saying was correct as the boss begrudgingly agreed) and when I raised the other poster’s blatant rule violations and questioned why they weren’t also banned, I was basically told by the boss that he agreed with/liked him more than me so he didn’t really care about the violations.

I was also told that if I continued to ask for clarification over the incident he would permanently ban me even though this was my first ‘strike’.

So yeah, untouchables.

I know it must be a difficult and unrewarding job, but don’t preach a set of rules and a fair and even playing field if there’s not, just say “I’m the boss and I adjudicate how I want”

Misrepresentation of the highest degree!

WOW.

I do not give a damn about anyone here - I neither like or hate anyone. Nor am i the judge of right or wrong in an arguement between 2 (or more) posters.

However IF this is the sort of thing that you need to comfort yourself when you feel harshly done by, then so be it.

I was paraphrasing a long email chain, but it is an accurate representation. I may have had to make a slight assumption over the reasoning why one was banned and the other not (though I suspect I’m correct) as you refused to give me any other clarification on the matter.

It’s all in the PMs.

[asiu]

Am sure there are others who will disagree - asiu how ya going bro?

i'm going really well , thanx mate

i feel

we've all operated extremely well together
over the duration

given our ...respective bits of country
we find ourselves with responsibility to care for


my rule has always been
(and often enough stated)

... i'll say what i choose , when i choose , for whatever reason
i so choose

(but i'll say it as straight down the line as i know how)

and then to each of the three mods
that i've written under
over the last ten years

you , kos and dal

i communicated the same message

thats how i am
so
if i get out of line

ban my sorry arse
on the spot

... i'll understand !!!
it's your job



i've even (over the journey)
sent one of the three
a pm
asking
if i was out of line ... given whatever was going on at the time

coz sometimes i need a sounding board
when i get ... passionate about community

so

from my pov

i've backed u kos 'n dal in ... to the very best of my ability

given that your moderating by a dumb set of rules / ideology

i certainly don't feel like any sort of ... protected species

especially in this dobfest culture

but i've fought tooth n nail for my right of voice
and from that
the communities right of voice

and the bullies
... whichever side they play
can go n get f***ed


afaic
the only thing around this joint
that needs banning

are all these rules of ideology

and replaced with some guidelines of common decency

****

all this is about
is TB being given his spot back
+ his Id back

and a
please stop banning people request from us peasantry

****



coz the communitys content makes SS
...always has

whats been created by pandering to the
faux outrage set ,
the timid set ,
the offended set ,
the dobber set
and the control via manipulation set

IS NOT COMMUNITY


its actually , death by a thousand cuts a year

that 10,000 cuts already
doing it simons way

and if
simon seriously thinks anyones out to 'get him'

pull the plug
end the charade

if not

give TB his hat back
along with Joffa Burns (for starters)

erase that monthly ban thread in the Admin Forum

and grow a set

[asiu]

and if i'm the f****** PROBLEM

tell me

and I'll LEAVE

[asiu]

then

if it was an unbiased view of SS
anyone was actually after

go to Big Footballer/Farcebook ... ask those
(who left here , of their own accord)
to call back and share with us WHY
they did so

it'd be a brave move

but it could save the old girl

[Dave McNamara]

Hi Simon,

You've put a lot of effort into this topic, which (further) confirms that this site means something to you. And come on Simon. Be honest, the posters do too. (Well, some of them. )

So realIy doubt you want to see your Saintsational baby wither and die. All that effort and love (be honest again ) would then become for nothing.

The request. Our request. My request. Please introduce an alternative way to deal with those who won't do "the polite and correct thing by moving to the left".

And that alternative way is simply to introduce cumulative holidays c/f permanent bans. And just like with your drivers' license analogy, also introduce a period after which earlier bans expire from the record.

It would be win/win/win.

Those who won't move from a position on the right are subdued.
Your workload would not be increased.
And most importantly of all, IMHO, this site's valuable history would be retained.

Thanks again for your consideration.

- Dave.




PS: Ok, gotta' admit. I would miss the sweeps that are run as to how long it is before a newbie as confirmed as being a previously banished poster.

[Vortex]

Am sure there are others who will disagree - asiu how ya going bro?

i'm going really well , thanx mate

i feel

we've all operated extremely well together
over the duration

given our ...respective bits of country
we find ourselves with responsibility to care for


my rule has always been
(and often enough stated)

... i'll say what i choose , when i choose , for whatever reason
i so choose

(but i'll say it as straight down the line as i know how)

and then to each of the three mods
that i've written under
over the last ten years

you , kos and dal

i communicated the same message

thats how i am
so
if i get out of line

ban my sorry arse
on the spot

... i'll understand !!!
it's your job



i've even (over the journey)
sent one of the three
a pm
asking
if i was out of line ... given whatever was going on at the time

coz sometimes i need a sounding board
when i get ... passionate about community

so

from my pov

i've backed u kos 'n dal in ... to the very best of my ability

given that your moderating by a dumb set of rules / ideology

i certainly don't feel like any sort of ... protected species

especially in this dobfest culture

but i've fought tooth n nail for my right of voice
and from that
the communities right of voice

and the bullies
... whichever side they play
can go n get f***ed


afaic
the only thing around this joint
that needs banning

are all these rules of ideology

and replaced with some guidelines of common decency

****

all this is about
is TB being given his spot back
+ his Id back

and a
please stop banning people request from us peasantry

****



coz the communitys content makes SS
...always has

whats been created by pandering to the
faux outrage set ,
the timid set ,
the offended set ,
the dobber set
and the control via manipulation set

IS NOT COMMUNITY


its actually , death by a thousand cuts a year

that 10,000 cuts already
doing it simons way

and if
simon seriously thinks anyones out to 'get him'

pull the plug
end the charade

if not

give TB his hat back
along with Joffa Burns (for starters)

erase that monthly ban thread in the Admin Forum

and grow a set

Absolutely it's the community that makes SS with the content contribution solely and 100% coming from the community.

Isn't it a shame that point is arrogantly disregarded.

[Teflon]

Dear Simon

I don’t write much these days as I’m usually banned... Just back from another SS imposed BF holiday (I gotta say be lost for my footy fix without the latest from that site !).
I’ve been here since day dot and on the old Saints chat prior and sadly I’d have to say the lack of varied opinion is the biggest difference I notice and that’s to the site’s detriment.
I do agree with posters suggesting there are some consistent species on here that cause mayhem abs generally add little to the football discussion (usually just childish rolly eyes type responses ..) and they seem to be allowed /encouraged almost to continue to do it with zero consequences. To be fair that bothers me little as long as we make sure the same treatment is applied to all...sadly not the case.
Anyway I do abs have over many years admired and appreciated your efforts to give us a home to talk Saints but for the good of the site let diversity of opinion in or the place dies.

Yours in banning,
Teffers

[skeptic]

I would say there’s a pretty consistent theme emerging here of people feeling both harassed from the same source and unheard through the process

[CQ SAINT]

Constant harassment +/- 5% is ok.
A 63 year old politically themed joke is a severe breach.
Get with it guys FFS.

[AeonFlux]

.

An important message to all true believing St Kilda/Saintsational supporters from our Pres'.

Dear Saintsationalists,

I Seek your support to vote to save our True Believer.

Our True Believer is a foundation member of our great Saintsational Club, a master of the metal ukulele (though definitely not master of dad jokes ), a rescuer of treed cats (the word is), champion of old ladies, and a tireless campaigner for men's rights.

But most importantly, our True Believer is a highly valued member, and an icon of our rich Saintsational history.

Thanks to the CHO here in Victoria, we can't go to the footy till March 2025. But fortunately, we can all enjoy the diversity of opinions that are expressed here on Saintsational. And long may that be.

So come on Saintsationalists!

Do the right thing for human rights!

Do the right thing for diversity!

Do the right thing for long hair and heavy metal!

Do the right thing for our True Believer!

Go to http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103271 and cast your vote for humanity (and our True Believer). You know it's the right thing to do.


And Saintsationalists (especially you Aeon honey), thank-you and take care. It will be great to see you back at the footy in 2025.

Fred. ..................................................................

Glad to.

I second that

I thought it was harsh.

Let him back. He wasn't a spiteful poster.

yes

I like him too. He's a good dude and a bit clever.

for the good of the site let diversity of opinion in or the place dies. - Teffers

this..... hands up you silent dudes.

Absolutely it's the community that makes SS with the content contribution solely and 100% coming from the community.

it'd be a brave move

but it could save the old girl

F**k yeah!

(TB's contribution) Massive I'm led to believe. Awesome.

Nope never heard of him

.

[asiu]

awwww

leg end









needed that
... it all been feeling a bit brutal

fight on chook
it's only a head

[CQ SAINT]

Love it.

[BackFromUSA]

Dear Simon

I don’t write much these days as I’m usually banned... Just back from another SS imposed BF holiday (I gotta say be lost for my footy fix without the latest from that site !).
I’ve been here since day dot and on the old Saints chat prior and sadly I’d have to say the lack of varied opinion is the biggest difference I notice and that’s to the site’s detriment.
I do agree with posters suggesting there are some consistent species on here that cause mayhem abs generally add little to the football discussion (usually just childish rolly eyes type responses ..) and they seem to be allowed /encouraged almost to continue to do it with zero consequences. To be fair that bothers me little as long as we make sure the same treatment is applied to all...sadly not the case.
Anyway I do abs have over many years admired and appreciated your efforts to give us a home to talk Saints but for the good of the site let diversity of opinion in or the place dies.

Yours in banning,
Teffers

Hi

As with everything in life, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

In reference to the so called "protected species" it is perception more than anything.

Assuming it is the poster I believe that you are referencing, they have received a few one day bans in the past few months.

Most of that poster's posts are not reported and therefore not read or assessed. So I cannot comment on them.

The posts that are reported fall into the following categories

- not valid as a breach
- not severe enough for a one day ban
- severe enough for a one day ban (and they were issued)
- not severe enough for a one week ban

Now they are just better than others of posting without breaching the rules even if they are at the edge of the rules and therefore don't get banned as often as others - or for as long as others.

As for the exodus from Saintsational - the major exodus was before my time.

Posters left because they were being abused / threatened / ridiculed and every thread was a constant stream of bickering.

The posters that have gone from here (full permanent ban) were those that were serial offenders at ruining the community and were not here to talk football.

The place (when football was on this year) was a much better environment to talk football.

I understand that now there is no football, that this is an interesting time for reflection.

As I have stated previously - I am absolutely fine for there to be a few hundred posters here posting about footy, rather than thousands abusing, threatening and bickering constantly. For now, most of the real trouble makers are gone.

And if someone is posting something that is a breach of the rules in your eyes - REPORT THEM - because that's the only way it will be reviewed and assessed.

[BackFromUSA]

Constant harassment +/- 5% is ok.
A 63 year old politically themed joke is a severe breach.
Get with it guys FFS.

Yes - political assassinations are hilarious. Should definitely be encouraged??? You may think it is funny, but I certainly do not. No atetr who the butt of the joke is.

This is a football forum. Political commentary of any kind has no place here at all and that is clearly stated.

[happy feet]

It’s very easy to be a smart @rse with other posters on this site. It’s just as easy to escalate the tone of a discussion to combative. Nobody likes to be belittled. I am just as guilty of this as anyone else. The funny part about it is that if we were all in a pub having a beer together we would probably enjoy each other’s company. I guess it’s easy to say things to each other on social media that social norms and good manners prevent if we are face to face.

Maybe we should all apply a test of “would I say that to the person’s face” and if not, then tone it down.

We don’t know what happens in our members day to day lives. Maybe they are on here a lot as at present they don’t have much else or a little isolated. So let’s make Simon’s life a little easier and maybe in a spirit of compassion and trust some permanent bans might be reversed with those members on probation.

[CQ SAINT]

Constant harassment +/- 5% is ok.
A 63 year old politically themed joke is a severe breach.
Get with it guys FFS.

Yes - political assassinations are hilarious. Should definitely be encouraged??? You may think it is funny, but I certainly do not. No atetr who the butt of the joke is.

This is a football forum. Political commentary of any kind has no place here at all and that is clearly stated.

I didn't say it was hilarious and I understand your sensitivity. The current political climate must be torture for you.

[Teflon]

Dear Simon

I don’t write much these days as I’m usually banned... Just back from another SS imposed BF holiday (I gotta say be lost for my footy fix without the latest from that site !).
I’ve been here since day dot and on the old Saints chat prior and sadly I’d have to say the lack of varied opinion is the biggest difference I notice and that’s to the site’s detriment.
I do agree with posters suggesting there are some consistent species on here that cause mayhem abs generally add little to the football discussion (usually just childish rolly eyes type responses ..) and they seem to be allowed /encouraged almost to continue to do it with zero consequences. To be fair that bothers me little as long as we make sure the same treatment is applied to all...sadly not the case.
Anyway I do abs have over many years admired and appreciated your efforts to give us a home to talk Saints but for the good of the site let diversity of opinion in or the place dies.

Yours in banning,
Teffers

Hi

As with everything in life, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

In reference to the so called "protected species" it is perception more than anything.

Assuming it is the poster I believe that you are referencing, they have received a few one day bans in the past few months.

Most of that poster's posts are not reported and therefore not read or assessed. So I cannot comment on them.

The posts that are reported fall into the following categories

- not valid as a breach
- not severe enough for a one day ban
- severe enough for a one day ban (and they were issued)
- not severe enough for a one week ban

Now they are just better than others of posting without breaching the rules even if they are at the edge of the rules and therefore don't get banned as often as others - or for as long as others.

As for the exodus from Saintsational - the major exodus was before my time.

Posters left because they were being abused / threatened / ridiculed and every thread was a constant stream of bickering.

The posters that have gone from here (full permanent ban) were those that were serial offenders at ruining the community and were not here to talk football.

The place (when football was on this year) was a much better environment to talk football.

I understand that now there is no football, that this is an interesting time for reflection.

As I have stated previously - I am absolutely fine for there to be a few hundred posters here posting about footy, rather than thousands abusing, threatening and bickering constantly. For now, most of the real trouble makers are gone.

And if someone is posting something that is a breach of the rules in your eyes - REPORT THEM - because that's the only way it will be reviewed and assessed.

I don’t think that part is right at all which leads back to perception issues that multiple posters are clearly having.
Anyway let’s move on it’s clearly not gonna change

[BackFromUSA]

Constant harassment +/- 5% is ok.
A 63 year old politically themed joke is a severe breach.
Get with it guys FFS.

Yes - political assassinations are hilarious. Should definitely be encouraged??? You may think it is funny, but I certainly do not. No atetr who the butt of the joke is.

This is a football forum. Political commentary of any kind has no place here at all and that is clearly stated.

I didn't say it was hilarious and I understand your sensitivity. The current political climate must be torture for you.

why would the current political climate be torture for me???

I am really interested in this reply!

[BackFromUSA]

Dear Simon

I don’t write much these days as I’m usually banned... Just back from another SS imposed BF holiday (I gotta say be lost for my footy fix without the latest from that site !).
I’ve been here since day dot and on the old Saints chat prior and sadly I’d have to say the lack of varied opinion is the biggest difference I notice and that’s to the site’s detriment.
I do agree with posters suggesting there are some consistent species on here that cause mayhem abs generally add little to the football discussion (usually just childish rolly eyes type responses ..) and they seem to be allowed /encouraged almost to continue to do it with zero consequences. To be fair that bothers me little as long as we make sure the same treatment is applied to all...sadly not the case.
Anyway I do abs have over many years admired and appreciated your efforts to give us a home to talk Saints but for the good of the site let diversity of opinion in or the place dies.

Yours in banning,
Teffers

Hi

As with everything in life, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

In reference to the so called "protected species" it is perception more than anything.

Assuming it is the poster I believe that you are referencing, they have received a few one day bans in the past few months.

Most of that poster's posts are not reported and therefore not read or assessed. So I cannot comment on them.

The posts that are reported fall into the following categories

- not valid as a breach
- not severe enough for a one day ban
- severe enough for a one day ban (and they were issued)
- not severe enough for a one week ban

Now they are just better than others of posting without breaching the rules even if they are at the edge of the rules and therefore don't get banned as often as others - or for as long as others.

As for the exodus from Saintsational - the major exodus was before my time.

Posters left because they were being abused / threatened / ridiculed and every thread was a constant stream of bickering.

The posters that have gone from here (full permanent ban) were those that were serial offenders at ruining the community and were not here to talk football.

The place (when football was on this year) was a much better environment to talk football.

I understand that now there is no football, that this is an interesting time for reflection.

As I have stated previously - I am absolutely fine for there to be a few hundred posters here posting about footy, rather than thousands abusing, threatening and bickering constantly. For now, most of the real trouble makers are gone.

And if someone is posting something that is a breach of the rules in your eyes - REPORT THEM - because that's the only way it will be reviewed and assessed.

I don’t think that part is right at all which leads back to perception issues that multiple posters are clearly having.
Anyway let’s move on it’s clearly not gonna change

Please report posts that you think breach rules.

Every post that is reported is assessed against the rules.

If they are not reported then they are not assessed.

[CQ SAINT]

Constant harassment +/- 5% is ok.
A 63 year old politically themed joke is a severe breach.
Get with it guys FFS.

Yes - political assassinations are hilarious. Should definitely be encouraged??? You may think it is funny, but I certainly do not. No atetr who the butt of the joke is.

This is a football forum. Political commentary of any kind has no place here at all and that is clearly stated.

I didn't say it was hilarious and I understand your sensitivity. The current political climate must be torture for you.

why would the current political climate be torture for me???

I am really interested in this reply!

Just the amount of political satire around atm. Particularly on this site. But your are probably only aware of the stuff that gets reported, I guess. Given your strong views on it, that would be a challenge.

[asiu]

Please report posts that you think breach rules.

any stats on this

how successful has this operational modality been ?

of the not many (contributing) posters here
i cant imagine too many who are dobbers
or were raised in a 'thou shall dob' environment

all this modality does
is open the door for the two faced manipulators
to play

given that most don't dob , by due of upbringing
in a wiser culture

maybe it's the dobber
who needs cleaning out