Drawing a line in the sand for Ratts.

[Gershwin]

Surely nothing less than a finals spot is acceptable and means a new contract. Anything less and we must make a change.

[shanegrambeau]

I don't know about finals spots etc.,

Of course, we are all psyched up and waiting for God's wings to fly us into heaven ..(top four?) ..but for whatever the pundits views are worth - and perhaps it 'aint much - most have St Kilda dropping or clinging to a place in nowhere land in '22.

And can we blame Ratts?

I think for Ratts to be sacked we need to prove that he is doing something wrong...that is from the supporter-with-a-conscience view. And what is he doing wrong? I am sure that among us there are critics. I know my under 15Cs football brain tells me he is/was picking players I wouldn't, but not many to be honest.

I like that he didn't value some players and I doubt anyone could save his head at the inquisition called 'Reasons for Dropping Hind and Loving Kent' , (no diss for Super-K..., hope you kill it, cos I've been 'that man' b4)

Everyone except us thinks St Kilda will not make it this year...they don't go so far to say that Ratts won't make it. With the amount of BS he has put up with in his personal and footy life, I don't think he'll be worried about the media and their dirty-hound-wolf-pack hunting tactics if we drop to 2-6...and by geez, we certainly could be 2-6..

But we could also be 6-2!

We know the secret sauce - us fans, that logic doesn't know! '21 was aberration, we showed what we 'can' do in '20, now we have ironed out the bums and we are ready to roar. If we fail..I suspect it won't be Ratts's fault, but as usual, his neck will be on the block.

[Impatient Sainter]

Surely nothing less than a finals spot is acceptable and means a new contract. Anything less and we must make a change.

Im sorry but I completely disagree. Ratts had a lot of things go wrong last year and we still finished 9th. We again have a tough draw, but if we have some good fortune with injuries we will make finals.

We finally have a coach that is totally invested in the club (not themselves), plus he can coach and you want him gone after 3 years. I'm pretty sure the clubs board and CEO believe Ratts is the man to take us forward. They wouldn't be putting mentors and development staff to assist him if they thought any different.

I am that confident I'll predict Ratts will be our next Premiership Coach! It might not be this year but in the next couple of years.

[B.M]

Finals or gone

He has a list at the age demographic that should play finals

[Banger9798]

He needs to play finals, agreed

[WellardSaint]

Finals or gone

He has a list at the age demographic that should play finals

Agree, nice mix of older, experienced players- Hannas, Ryder, Hill, Ross; some in that mid-20's bracket like Steele, Skunk, Crouch, Jones, etc; early 20s like Battle who need to grab it with both hands and demand their spots; and the very young like Sharman et al who are nipping at the heels of their team-mates saying "raise your bar, give 120%, or we're gonna shove you aside and take your spot"

[saintly]

Finals or gone

He has a list at the age demographic that should play finals

Agree, nice mix of older, experienced players- Hannas, Ryder, Hill, Ross; some in that mid-20's bracket like Steele, Skunk, Crouch, Jones, etc; early 20s like Battle who need to grab it with both hands and demand their spots; and the very young like Sharman et al who are nipping at the heels of their team-mates saying "raise your bar, give 120%, or we're gonna shove you aside and take your spot"

Hanners, lol. What a laugh. If hanners plays 5 games this year we will be lucky Ross, going downhill
2021 recruits, most won't play in 2022. Sharmon, has played a lousy 5 games.

[saintly]

Finals or gone

He has a list at the age demographic that should play finals

Agree, nice mix of older, experienced players- Hannas, Ryder, Hill, Ross; some in that mid-20's bracket like Steele, Skunk, Crouch, Jones, etc; early 20s like Battle who need to grab it with both hands and demand their spots; and the very young like Sharman et al who are nipping at the heels of their team-mates saying "raise your bar, give 120%, or we're gonna shove you aside and take your spot"

Hanners, lol. What a laugh. If hanners plays 5 games this year we will be lucky Ross, going downhill
2021 recruits, most won't play in 2022. Sharmon, has played a lousy 5 games.

[Vortex]

Surely nothing less than a finals spot is acceptable and means a new contract. Anything less and we must make a change.

Is it an easy binary decision.

It's not a list at the bottom of a list rebuild so you couldn't put a Brendon Bolton, David Teague or Stewart Due in charge.

It's a middle of the road list so who do you put in place to take it to the next level if you think Ratts can't do it.

I think our list is still well short of flag ready and is also a very vulnerable list that is sensitive to injury to only a key player or two.

So do you throw the bathwater out with the baby, of course we do, this is St Kilda.

[Selhurst Saint]

The president has tied the noose by stating last year that 2022 was the year the club was going to excel.

[DJ Higgins]

Depends who is available as well. It’s easy to say get rid of someone but you can then get in a cycle of a new coach every five years. I’d say we needs to see genuine improvement from most players and a game plan that is more adaptable to what the opposition is doing.

If that happens so will ladder progression. Plus it’s dangerous thinking to say finals or else a few close wins or losses can have a big impact on where we finish

[The_Dud]

He seems to do a lot right except when it comes to the selection table, many bizarre decisions almost on a weekly basis.

Agree should play finals this year, not sure I'd turf him if we missed tho.

[Yorkeys]

Assumes we can just will our way into finals.
17 other clubs want the same prize and no one can control back luck or roll of the draw.
I think we over rate our squad: over egging their strengths and down playing weaknesses. We, well me, perhaps not you, are desperately hopeful more than coldly realistic.
We still lack a(nother) physically a dominant key back and same up forward - but maybe Hayes can fix that?. We play around those weaknesses ok mostly but they show up in finals/tight games.
We have not built a killer go for the throat never say die rep, sides always think they can get us from anywhere. Our big leads get run down. We are inconsistent, seem to have a problem going in to a game as favorite.
To me we also seem to lack mental strength and think on your feet nous to subtly change as the game changes. [Melbourne have Gawn who just either goes forward or back as he sees the need and dominates, rare beast]
Ratts is working on the attitude thing but it takes time to weed out and replace players that cannot knuckle down to a role/adjust and make good decisions under pressure. (Who would Jack Steele have turned to for advice/support last year when games were getting away from us?)
Ratts is doing his best to improve the group but its like turning a tanker. Artificial time lines don't help.
I'd go for not getting hopelessly flogged several times like last year and winning a few by big margins, i.e. grind the opposition down when we have them, like Freo last game '21. Win 80% of home games and be competitive on the road. Establish a % close to 100.
For me Ratts still tests positive. Boom boom.

[Vortex]

The president has tied the noose by stating last year that 2022 was the year the club was going to excel.

I think he's within his rights to claim 2022 should be the bottom of an upwardly trending curve. I wouldn't be adding any more GST than that.

[saynta]

Finals or gone

He has a list at the age demographic that should play finals

Agree, nice mix of older, experienced players- Hannas, Ryder, Hill, Ross; some in that mid-20's bracket like Steele, Skunk, Crouch, Jones, etc; early 20s like Battle who need to grab it with both hands and demand their spots; and the very young like Sharman et al who are nipping at the heels of their team-mates saying "raise your bar, give 120%, or we're gonna shove you aside and take your spot"

Hanners, lol. What a laugh. If hanners plays 5 games this year we will be lucky Ross, going downhill
2021 recruits, most won't play in 2022. Sharmon, has played a lousy 5 games.

You could at least learn how to spell the players names.

[Impatient Sainter]

The club have basically admitted that they went into last season under prepared. They were caught out fitness wise, had key injuries and werent prepared for the changes that the 'stand rule' caused. They trained all preseason with having the player not stand the mark, but 5 metres off allowing them lateral movement. Only for the AFL to adjust the rule weeks before the season started.

When the coach can rely on the top 30 players to be available and well prepared for the majority of the season, only then you can judge Ratts on his performance. We have far too many players who through injury or form cant impact consistently. Injuries - Ryder, Hannebery, Gresham, Geary, Marshall, Paton, Coffield. Form King (maturity), Butler, Ross, Hill, Crouch, Battle (positional) & Billings who should go to another level.

The list still has a bit of evolution to go through before we will be a serious threat, whether that occurs this year or in the next couple who knows? The one thing I am certain of is Ratts is the best man to lead our club forward. The AFL will make certain that Clarkson lands at Gold Coast so apart from him who else is better credentialled to coach the club than Ratts? Buckley may be available but is he a good fit for our club, I can see him replacing Hinkley if Port have a failed year.

If injuries hit again this year, we may have to take another step back before going forward. We will need to weed out the injury prone older players like Ryder, Hanbebery & Geary and allow games for other players to evolve. This is probably Ryders last year so the club will have a decision to make regarding their ruckman. I doubt Max Heath will be ready to take over and Campbell is a backup only. I think Gallagher will regret not stumping up the 2023 2nd round pick for Xerri this year. Xerri has apparently excelled this preseason and is a chance to push Goldstein out of the side? Hopefully we are still in his ear and can convince him to move across at seasons end? Otherwise we are going to be chasing another ruckman and there is not an abundance of them about.

[shanegrambeau]

Agree with sentiments of Yorkeys and others.

I think Bucks would make a nice assistant coach in '23 to help Ratts!

But here's something...

Who makes the executioner's call anyway?

[st.byron]

Assumes we can just will our way into finals.
17 other clubs want the same prize and no one can control back luck or roll of the draw.
I think we over rate our squad: over egging their strengths and down playing weaknesses. We, well me, perhaps not you, are desperately hopeful more than coldly realistic.
We still lack a(nother) physically a dominant key back and same up forward - but maybe Hayes can fix that?. We play around those weaknesses ok mostly but they show up in finals/tight games.
We have not built a killer go for the throat never say die rep, sides always think they can get us from anywhere. Our big leads get run down. We are inconsistent, seem to have a problem going in to a game as favorite.
To me we also seem to lack mental strength and think on your feet nous to subtly change as the game changes. [Melbourne have Gawn who just either goes forward or back as he sees the need and dominates, rare beast]
Ratts is working on the attitude thing but it takes time to weed out and replace players that cannot knuckle down to a role/adjust and make good decisions under pressure. (Who would Jack Steele have turned to for advice/support last year when games were getting away from us?)
Ratts is doing his best to improve the group but its like turning a tanker. Artificial time lines don't help.
I'd go for not getting hopelessly flogged several times like last year and winning a few by big margins, i.e. grind the opposition down when we have them, like Freo last game '21. Win 80% of home games and be competitive on the road. Establish a % close to 100.
For me Ratts still tests positive. Boom boom.

That's a good assessment. Should play finals but a few injuries and we could be very exposed. As well as a key defender, we are still 2 high quality mids short IMO. Sigh.....The Bont and Petracca instead of Billings and McCartin......yeah I know hindsight blah blah ...A couple of our young guys - Byrnes, Gresham, Bytel, Windhager, Owens - need to step up and become A graders. Or we build a more solid foundation this year, make finals, and then import some quality mid talent.
Looks to me like Ratten and his team are trying to build a culture. That can take some time to become solid. I think it's been a good off season in that a lot of list cloggers have been moved on and replaced with mostly younger talent. Need to make finals this year and see the potential for going further emerge as a genuine reality and not just hope.

[Ghost Like]

Ratten has the job as long as he has the Board & the Players, not necessarily in that order or at the same time. I doubt ladder position comes into it, especially when he's made the finals 50% of the time he's coached the Club.

We cannot hold him to the failures of the Club and Players during Richo's tenure, he's already achieved more in a third of the time.

Ratten is a single part, if he fails so does the Board, the Admin, the Support staff and the Players. Similarly, if any of those parts fail so does Ratten.

[bigcarl]

Sharmon, has played a lousy 5 games.

Sharman’s played a pretty good five games. He may not be the finished product yet, but there is definitely something there to work with. He will get more attention, sure, but that is going to free up King or Membrey or Higgins or Gresham.


As for Ratts I thought he did a good job last season with only half a fit list. Let’s see how the season unfolds

[Life Long Saint]

So what if we go 12-10 with a percentage over 100% and miss the finals?
In most seasons that is good enough to make it, but in 2016, we missed by percentage on the finals with a 12-10 record (admittidly, we had a terrible percentage for that record).
In 2017, Melbourne (12-10) missed by 0.5% with percentage of 105.2%
In 2018, four teams missed the finals with a 12-10 record (North - 108.9, Port 107.6, Essendon 105.1, and Adelaide 104.1). There was a four win gap to the next team.

I don't think that you can put the finals or out condition on a coach.
It's all about how the team plays and the injuries you get.

[asiu]

So do you throw the bathwater out with the baby, of course we do, this is St Kilda.

agreed

of course we do

[shanegrambeau]

I worry about the culture when I consider those hammerings last year.

Bombers, Bulldogs, etc., when commentators say we had given up, we’re not tackling etc.,

Tough for a coach at the best of times, but impossible if players are not with the program.

We saw what happened to Langer…you can be killing it on the scoreboard and still have inner cracks that don’t show up behind the media facade.

[older saint]

I believe clubs set themselves up when they make statements such as "must make finals"
There are so many variables in team sport and injuries is top of the list. You can be the bets coach in the AFL but without the cattle you aren't making finals.

Benchmarks should be more about things such as competitiveness, playing style, development . Yes it is a win loss business and must be considered but cannot be the one and only factor

[SaintPav]

What if we get key injuries again but are competitive in most games and finish 9th on percentage?

It’s not that black and white.

Plus, you’re only usually supposed to change leadership when the workplace is dysfunctional and staff have stopped buying in.

Wins are the name of the game, but it’s costly and disruptive to make a change when everything is going relatively well.