Dougal Howard appreciation thread

[meher baba]

As I have been posting all year, Howard plays a crucial role for our team in neutralising opposition attacks, and has been key to our well-performed backline this season.

To me, his absence was glaringly obvious last night. Also, having both Highmore and Battle seemed to weaken rather than strengthen us.

As is often the case with the much-vaunted stars of VFL that most fans haven’t seen much of, Highmore showed that he is massively overrated (but is young and can improve).

As I’ve posted before, intercept marks down back are greatly overrated. For the most part, they are a consequence of misdirected kicks by your opponents. What really matters down back are one percenters and consistency in getting the ball beyond the 50 without turning it over.

Joyce and Highmore both tried hard but made many errors in these departments.

[Banger9798]

Agree. Often trying to cover too much, which is why he gets accused of sagging off his immediate opponent.
If he had a tall second KPD, he would be one of the best in the league

[Crossy66]

Without Dougal we were hopelessly undersized down back.
Battle has been very good for a while now. We also missed an in form Paton.
Joyce and Highmore couldn't take the next step, add in Brad hill who is flakey as a defender and we were too easy to score against

[desertsaint]

anyone absent of bias can see how important howard is for us, and how good he is. for some reason there's a few supporters that appear frustrated and blinded and exagerrate his weaknesses and ignore his strengths. maybe they'll open their eyes over the next few weeks.

[skeptic]

I think what was exposed was that with the lack of structure, Highmore fell into an ill suited role and was found out.

The other part of that is that whilst it’s easy to be all crabby with Howard being angry and pointing fingers… yet it is very clear that he is the essential component in organising that defence

Furthermore, it’s another example of why players like Highmore need opportunity to develop early on when things are going well rather than being thrown in the deep end where their lack of experience is exposed.

Personally, I really hope that Highmore isn’t made the face of our loss last night

[The_Dud]

Not much of a Dougal fan, I believe he could be much better with a change of attitude, but gee whiz did Joyce and Highmore go a long way in boosting Dougal’s stock tonight!

[SaintPav]

Joyce is not AFL standard and Highmore had a shocker.

How they delisted Claravino and kept Joyce just beggars belief but they are incompetent and unaccountable.

[meher baba]

Joyce is not AFL standard and Highmore had a shocker.

How they delisted Claravino and kept Joyce just beggars belief but they are incompetent and unaccountable.

Which AFL club is Claravino playing for now?

[skeptic]

Joyce is not AFL standard and Highmore had a shocker.

How they delisted Claravino and kept Joyce just beggars belief but they are incompetent and unaccountable.

Which AFL club is Claravino playing for now?

Regardless… easily a better player than Joyce. Not close.

A lot of forumites here jumped onto the don’t question the club’s decision making, you’re a traitor if you don’t blindly think Joyce is great…
But IMO Joyce clearly demonstrated from his short stint last year that he is clearly not up to scratch. Not close to it.

The fact that he stayed and Clav left (not that he would have necessarily been the difference last night), clearly demonstrates a weird, not performance based bias that the list decision makers have.

And that weird bias… is the single biggest concern I have in Rats personally.

Conclusions that were reached on this site with utmost certainty amongst the majority:
Joyce is not the answer
Kent shouldn’t play
A 3-4 small forward structure is extremely ineffective
Battle played his best footy down back
King needs to push further up the ground

To name a few… are seemingly all being discovered this year.

Back to Joyce though…
Clearly the worst player on an AFL list at the moment and it is a bad indictment on the club that he’s lasted 7 years. Needed to be cut 3 years ago

[Ghost Like]

Good OP, Howard was a big out but we also need a genuine CHB. Battle & Wilkie are too often forced to take the 2nd key forward when both are suited to the 3rd tall.

Ideally Sinclair should be moved to the wing and be our Ed Langdon or Isaac Smith. Hill should be HFF or Wing as well.

My backline would have: Howard, Wilkie, (?CHB? - TBA) Battle, Paton, Coffield and Webster / Clark (midfield minutes).

I want our Defenders to play defence first, then run and accumulate possessions - not use the HBF to hide from taggers.

[Cordz2]

I think what was exposed was that with the lack of structure, Highmore fell into an ill suited role and was found out.

The other part of that is that whilst it’s easy to be all crabby with Howard being angry and pointing fingers… yet it is very clear that he is the essential component in organising that defence

Furthermore, it’s another example of why players like Highmore need opportunity to develop early on when things are going well rather than being thrown in the deep end where their lack of experience is exposed.

Personally, I really hope that Highmore isn’t made the face of our loss last night

Joyce and Highmore just need more time in the seniors and they’ll be better - can’t beat a genuine contender with 2 new key defenders.

[Munga]

Mmm... Howard is tall, and they've structured the defence around him, playing with them for years.
Joyce and Highmore haven't had that luxury, I wouldn't be bagging them.

[SydneySainter]

What last night proved is that Dougal is currently our best option for fullback, which is why we badly need to recruit another tall defender.

[WellardSaint]

'Misdirected kick by opponents'

Most of our games, our opponents have little pressure applied to their F50 entries, and their forwards can lead really well.
Not sure what the answer is, but nobody does the chaos entry into F50 the way we do.
It's our specialty

[SaintPav]

Joyce is not AFL standard and Highmore had a shocker.

How they delisted Claravino and kept Joyce just beggars belief but they are incompetent and unaccountable.

Which AFL club is Claravino playing for now?

Not relevant and for the sake of forum harmony and I’m being kind!

[Killa]

Claravino is playing for South Adelaide - named as a back pocket in the win over Glenelg (a surprise including the margin)

He had 16 touches (8 kicks) and took 7 marks also applying a couple of tackles

His strength is his marking but is limited when the ball is on the ground, which deficiency was not improved whilst at St Kilda despite the focus (and challenge)

South Adelaide are a couple of games out of finals contention with the win over Glenelg giving them some hope

Joyce is the more mobile

In my view we have never replaced Carlisle and now with Howard going down we are really exposed for height down back

The same as saw us recruit the guy from Collingwood (when we had Carlisle)

Interesting is that McCartin is showing why he was Drafted at Number 1, now having got to the 50 game mark and improving to elite by the game now ranked as the Number 1 intercept defender in the competition (then there are his
disposal skills which are elite)

[maverick]

Time for some left field thinking
Ben King is still there ready and waiting

How about
Hunter Clark and our first pick for Ben.
He goes back and dominates CHB and Clark goes to GC in his favoured HB which they need?

Would we do it?
Would they take it?

[SunnyErnie]

What last night proved is that Dougal is currently our best option for fullback, which is why we badly need to recruit another tall defender.

Harris Andrews and or Ben McKay say hello

[Crossy66]

What last night proved is that Dougal is currently our best option for fullback, which is why we badly need to recruit another tall defender.

Harris Andrews and or Ben McKay say hello

Any reason you think they may be available, or that their respective clubs don't want them?

[SinCitySainter]

I thought the reason we delisted Claravino and not Joyce was that one had a year left on his contract and one didn't.
I could be wrong in that but that is what I thought was the reality.
The fact is neither is AFL quality or likely ever will be so getting rid of one and the other the next is reasonable.

[Impatient Sainter]

Joyce didnt have a great game and looked very nervous, but lets see how he goes over the next few weeks. I still maintain Howard had been out form and npt playing well himself.

[SunnyErnie]

What last night proved is that Dougal is currently our best option for fullback, which is why we badly need to recruit another tall defender.

Harris Andrews and or Ben McKay say hello

Any reason you think they may be available, or that their respective clubs don't want them?

I have no idea if they are available but if I was St Kilda I would be speaking to their manager and finding out. But in all honesty, the way our list is at the moment it would probably be a waste of time. The more I think about it the more I reckon we need a full rebuild. Start again and build a premiership team around King. The first step in the 5 year plan would be to either trade out or delist everyone older than 27 (contracts permitting), at the end of this season. Then at the end of next season trade out or delist everyone older than 26 (contracts permitting). And yes I am aware that it might include some of our best players but so be it. Like I said, the aim here is to build a premiership list through the draft based around King's age group and younger. That would then make King 27 and give us 5 years to reset the list accordingly. No Free Agents and no trading in other players from other clubs UNTIL THE LIST HAS BEEN REBUILT FROM THE DRAFT AND GETS TO THE TOP 4 ON A CORE OF PLAYERS 27 AND UNDER. ie. NO SHORTCUTS OF THE KIND THAT SATAN AND GAGS HAVE ATTEMPTED BUT HAVE FAILED MISERABLY AND ALL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED IS KEPT US IN NO MAN'S LAND FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS!

[Crossy66]

What last night proved is that Dougal is currently our best option for fullback, which is why we badly need to recruit another tall defender.

Harris Andrews and or Ben McKay say hello

Any reason you think they may be available, or that their respective clubs don't want them?

I have no idea if they are available but if I was St Kilda I would be speaking to their manager and finding out. But in all honesty, the way our list is at the moment it would probably be a waste of time. The more I think about it the more I reckon we need a full rebuild. Start again and build a premiership team around King. The first step in the 5 year plan would be to either trade out or delist everyone older than 27 (contracts permitting), at the end of this season. Then at the end of next season trade out or delist everyone older than 26 (contracts permitting). And yes I am aware that it might include some of our best players but so be it. Like I said, the aim here is to build a premiership list through the draft based around King's age group and younger. That would then make King 27 and give us 5 years to reset the list accordingly. No Free Agents and no trading in other players from other clubs UNTIL THE LIST HAS BEEN REBUILT FROM THE DRAFT AND GETS TO THE TOP 4 ON A CORE OF PLAYERS 27 AND UNDER. ie. NO SHORTCUTS OF THE KIND THAT SATAN AND GAGS HAVE ATTEMPTED BUT HAVE FAILED MISERABLY AND ALL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED IS KEPT US IN NO MAN'S LAND FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS!

So what do we do with Harris Andrews if we got him this year ( he is 26 later this year). Would we recruit him for a year and then delist?

[SunnyErnie]

What last night proved is that Dougal is currently our best option for fullback, which is why we badly need to recruit another tall defender.

Harris Andrews and or Ben McKay say hello

Any reason you think they may be available, or that their respective clubs don't want them?

I have no idea if they are available but if I was St Kilda I would be speaking to their manager and finding out. But in all honesty, the way our list is at the moment it would probably be a waste of time. The more I think about it the more I reckon we need a full rebuild. Start again and build a premiership team around King. The first step in the 5 year plan would be to either trade out or delist everyone older than 27 (contracts permitting), at the end of this season. Then at the end of next season trade out or delist everyone older than 26 (contracts permitting). And yes I am aware that it might include some of our best players but so be it. Like I said, the aim here is to build a premiership list through the draft based around King's age group and younger. That would then make King 27 and give us 5 years to reset the list accordingly. No Free Agents and no trading in other players from other clubs UNTIL THE LIST HAS BEEN REBUILT FROM THE DRAFT AND GETS TO THE TOP 4 ON A CORE OF PLAYERS 27 AND UNDER. ie. NO SHORTCUTS OF THE KIND THAT SATAN AND GAGS HAVE ATTEMPTED BUT HAVE FAILED MISERABLY AND ALL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED IS KEPT US IN NO MAN'S LAND FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS!

So what do we do with Harris Andrews if we got him this year ( he is 26 later this year). Would we recruit him for a year and then delist?

[Crossy66]

What last night proved is that Dougal is currently our best option for fullback, which is why we badly need to recruit another tall defender.

Harris Andrews and or Ben McKay say hello

Any reason you think they may be available, or that their respective clubs don't want them?

I have no idea if they are available but if I was St Kilda I would be speaking to their manager and finding out. But in all honesty, the way our list is at the moment it would probably be a waste of time. The more I think about it the more I reckon we need a full rebuild. Start again and build a premiership team around King. The first step in the 5 year plan would be to either trade out or delist everyone older than 27 (contracts permitting), at the end of this season. Then at the end of next season trade out or delist everyone older than 26 (contracts permitting). And yes I am aware that it might include some of our best players but so be it. Like I said, the aim here is to build a premiership list through the draft based around King's age group and younger. That would then make King 27 and give us 5 years to reset the list accordingly. No Free Agents and no trading in other players from other clubs UNTIL THE LIST HAS BEEN REBUILT FROM THE DRAFT AND GETS TO THE TOP 4 ON A CORE OF PLAYERS 27 AND UNDER. ie. NO SHORTCUTS OF THE KIND THAT SATAN AND GAGS HAVE ATTEMPTED BUT HAVE FAILED MISERABLY AND ALL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED IS KEPT US IN NO MAN'S LAND FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS!

So what do we do with Harris Andrews if we got him this year ( he is 26 later this year). Would we recruit him for a year and then delist?

Sounds good, what year do we win it?