Mick McGuane on Ross Lyon

[Sanctorum]

No doubting the footy media's new love for St Kilda, even Mick McGuane, no lover of the RWB has jumped on the bandwagon....

Following article by Glen Mcfarlane in today's Herald Sun:

"Ross Lyon was famous for his defence first strategies as coach of the Saints and Fremantle, but News Corp analyst Mick McGuane has predicted a new look this time around.

Herald Sun footy analyst Mick McGuane has predicted new St Kilda coach Ross Lyon will remodel his trademark defence-first strategies into a far more attacking mode as AFL clubs look to replicate the style played by 2022 premiers Geelong.

McGuane has huge admiration for Lyon’s coaching nous, having taken St Kilda to Grand Finals in 2009 and 2010 and Fremantle in 2013.

But as successful as Lyon’s defensive style was a decade or more ago, McGuane says the veteran coach is smart enough to adapt to the new trend in AFL football, with a more run-and-gun style fuelling teams such as Geelong and preliminary finalists Collingwood in 2022.

McGuane said this year provided one of the most attractive brands of football in recent memory, and he expects more of the same next year.
“Knowing the copycat industry that AFL footy is in terms of coaching, we can expect teams to adopt the Collingwood style, which they adopted from Richmond,” McGuane said.

“And we saw Geelong go with faster ball movement with great success this year, so we will see teams wanting to adopt that more attractive, exciting factor in their games.

“It will be interesting to see if Ross (Lyon) aligns his psyche to that as well. He has always been so strong on defence and (his teams) have been hard to score against. But at times they have struggled to score (themselves).

“I am tipping Ross will be trying to score as much as he can, so we can expect a style change. It is going to be very interesting seeing how he adapts to the new trends in footy.”

Former Hawthorn champion Shane Crawford said Lyon would be the most intriguing character to watch in AFL football next season, along with North Melbourne’s new coach Alastair Clarkson and Essendon’s new coach in Brad Scott.

“I always remember playing against Ross Lyon teams and I found it really difficult because of the way he would block space so that you could never run directly towards goals,” Crawford said.

“He always made it very difficult for opposition teams.

“But he will have to make some changes. He will have to go that way (a more attacking brand) because at the end of the day, you have to score to win.
“That attacking brand has been used by a lot of the younger, newer coaches such as Craig McRae and Sammy Mitchell. That will definitely be a focus for Ross and St Kilda.”

Crawford said the AFL and the AFL Coaches’ Association needed to keep an eye on the welfare of senior coaches, saying it was a real area of concern given the scrutiny and pressure they are under now.

“Brett Ratten put everything into it and did a good job, but still lost his job. Coaches are under more pressure than ever these days,” Crawford said.
“We just need to make sure they are all getting the right support at all times.”

[Junction Oval]

Thanks for posting Sanctorum. I would have missed it. McGuane was once in the Saints coaching panel.

After having got over the shock of the Lyon return, this will be one of the most interesting years ahead for Saints supporters. Disappointing for Brett Ratten, but 2023 was looking to be a dead year .

[bakes]

Do copycats ever win the flag? Sooner or later, everything old is new again. Maybe Ross should double down and persist with the defensive emphasis. In 5 years it may be the new flavour again

[Vortex]

No mention of what McGaunes thinks RLs magic trick will be for procuring talent and skills to a list capable of sustainable top 4 finishes and the occasional flag.

The media will back over RLs first failed attempt at rebuilding a list soon enough. For now we rejoice in the return of the Messiah.

[asiu]

For now we rejoice in the return of the Messiah.

well

some of us do

was that the Royal 'we' , that you just used

[asiu]

i suppose the real question is

... is , ross a better overall option than ratts

given that the shape of the list ,

was basically same same for each on decision day

[Vortex]

i suppose the real question is

... is , ross a better overall option than ratts

given that the shape of the list ,

was basically same same for each on decision day

My view may seem confusing so let me try and clarify.

Me love Ross long time, me still love Ross and want to have his babies.

Me big believer in the sum of all parts, have seen it deliver the Wholy Grail up close at clubland, never seen it work any other way.

Good everything = a good shot

Just a good coach on his own without the talent = a plan to fail

The magical trick has not been revealed yet.

He has 2 seasons at best to turn us into a top 4 side.

The Impatient will come much sooner if the wand is broken.

But me love Ross.

[WellardSaint]

i suppose the real question is

... is , ross a better overall option than ratts

given that the shape of the list ,

was basically same same for each on decision day

List very similar (except for those who departed)
But...Hayes/Harvey/Goddard
Would the last 2 have come if Cuddles stayed?
If they still came, could the collective coaching set-up bring us 3-4 more wins next year?

[The Fireman]

RTB will improve our list

[SinCitySainter]

Goddard wouldn't have but then again I doubt he would have been offered a role.
I imagine that Harvey would have been a chance as he is now a career coach and he would go where a job was.

[cwrcyn]

Lyon won't give a sh#t about the external noise, and neither should we. He'll develop a plan and he'll drive it home.

Some players won't like the required level of commitment, and they'll fall by the wayside. Those who buy in will become better players and better leaders.

We still need to nail the draft this year and next, though. Even with Lyon at his best we won't seriously challenge with the current crop of players at their current level of performance or development..

We Need improvement from within and fresh exciting talent thrown into the mix

[spert]

Lyon of 2009 or whatever will not be Lyon of 2023- the world has changed and so has the competition. I reckon it will be the season of the risk-taking coach, and even though Lyon has done a good job in the past, he will need to switch on quickly for one who has not had a team in the finals since 2015. There's a bit of hunger involved, and if he is like me, I had a good amount of hunger to get things done 12 years ago, but I have naturally eased off, although I haven't lost any skills, I haven't got the drive I used to have. I hope he gets the job done, but don't hold your breath

[cwrcyn]

Takes a huge amount of energy to coach AFL. We saw the before and after photos of Ratten. Aged 10 years in 3.

Lyon is as mentally tough as they come, but I agree.....heading into his late 50s he won't be able to be as hands on as previously. He's indicated that, so maybe he's got some perspective on his physical limitations

[shanegrambeau]

How many times have we seen the pattern, an old coach comes in, tries a 'new' and 'woke' method...disaster follows and from Rounds Six to Eight, after a dreadful start, things start to go back to their old ways and things improve again?

[Teflon]

Whatever Lyon does will be an improvement on Ratten
What people are neglecting is the club seriously dropped its football standards- players had checked out
Lyon won’t cop that
He’ll push for standards from onfield and off to get success
Even if Lyon fails to get us a flag he will ensure the club gets back to what is required to be a consistent side
No more pick n choose when you want to turn up
No more selection ups and downs
No more weekly “heart to hearts”

[shanegrambeau]

....
What people are neglecting is the club seriously dropped its football standards- players had checked out
Lyon won’t cop that
....

I think we are also not cognizant of the circumstance and momentum Ratts has to deal with. The 'new' movement, of sympathy, empathy, inclusivity, diversity matched with the new corporate jingo that defines compartmentalism, containerization, metrical point marking, turning circles into squares, scores, metrics, targets, sections, PPA's (private professional advancement achieved by aggregating defined and tangible and printable, presentable (on a PowerPoint) achievements ...i.e. 'I re-signed three players worth an aggregate of 1.3 million' which aligned with the new sponsors re-siging '$13.600' worth of commitments (provided we play in Lord Howe Island) ...

Ratts was on a hiding to nothing.

Now Lethlean knows all this. He is a brute as is Bassat. And fair enough.

we hired Lyon with no process, then Goddard and co. ...just a bunch of mates..like Hanners, but unlike Hanners in that they care.

No diss on Hanners BTW, or his manager. Enjoy the lobster!

[asiu]

crayfish

if you're an aussie ... they're crayfish

and

too many 'z' in your big words lately
... very american

we use 's' in our big words
... the kings english 'n all that jizzmo



and then
all these new modern terms
... confusing the dinkydi battler

u'd nearly start to wonder if it was intentional

makes me feel like i dunna have a good edumacation

[Yorkeys]

All begz the questions:
why do editors commission all these same same stories, if they are boring to us I can't imagine other clubs supporters being interested; and
who really cares what these people think. Are there any footy commentators/ experts who's opinions we respect?

[Teflon]

....
What people are neglecting is the club seriously dropped its football standards- players had checked out
Lyon won’t cop that
....

I think we are also not cognizant of the circumstance and momentum Ratts has to deal with. The 'new' movement, of sympathy, empathy, inclusivity, diversity matched with the new corporate jingo that defines compartmentalism, containerization, metrical point marking, turning circles into squares, scores, metrics, targets, sections, PPA's (private professional advancement achieved by aggregating defined and tangible and printable, presentable (on a PowerPoint) achievements ...i.e. 'I re-signed three players worth an aggregate of 1.3 million' which aligned with the new sponsors re-siging '$13.600' worth of commitments (provided we play in Lord Howe Island) ...

Ratts was on a hiding to nothing.

Now Lethlean knows all this. He is a brute as is Bassat. And fair enough.

we hired Lyon with no process, then Goddard and co. ...just a bunch of mates..like Hanners, but unlike Hanners in that they care.

No diss on Hanners BTW, or his manager. Enjoy the lobster!

Lots of words (impressive)
Ratten had 3 years
We were going backwards
He decided the who his lieutenants were
He decided game plan
He would have had some say over player recruitment
I think most acknowledged he dropped the ball
Lyon recruiting his mates ….most do in senior gigs…if you’re carrying the van and it’s your head on the block that’s fair enough…you want people you trust
If it goes t!ts up its Lyon who wears that ultimately

[Teflon]

All begz the questions:
why do editors commission all these same same stories, if they are boring to us I can't imagine other clubs supporters being interested; and
who really cares what these people think. Are there any footy commentators/ experts who's opinions we respect?

I find Wayne Carey on the gear entertaining
Crushed up Panadol in the pocket …I’ve often wandered round a casino with that in my track suit pants looking for a vacant pokie machine…

[Vortex]

....
What people are neglecting is the club seriously dropped its football standards- players had checked out
Lyon won’t cop that
....

I think we are also not cognizant of the circumstance and momentum Ratts has to deal with. The 'new' movement, of sympathy, empathy, inclusivity, diversity matched with the new corporate jingo that defines compartmentalism, containerization, metrical point marking, turning circles into squares, scores, metrics, targets, sections, PPA's (private professional advancement achieved by aggregating defined and tangible and printable, presentable (on a PowerPoint) achievements ...i.e. 'I re-signed three players worth an aggregate of 1.3 million' which aligned with the new sponsors re-siging '$13.600' worth of commitments (provided we play in Lord Howe Island) ...

Ratts was on a hiding to nothing.

Now Lethlean knows all this. He is a brute as is Bassat. And fair enough.

we hired Lyon with no process, then Goddard and co. ...just a bunch of mates..like Hanners, but unlike Hanners in that they care.

No diss on Hanners BTW, or his manager. Enjoy the lobster!

Lots of words (impressive)
Ratten had 3 years
We were going backwards
He decided the who his lieutenants were
He decided game plan
He would have had some say over player recruitment
I think most acknowledged he dropped the ball
Lyon recruiting his mates ….most do in senior gigs…if you’re carrying the van and it’s your head on the block that’s fair enough…you want people you trust
If it goes t!ts up its Lyon who wears that ultimately

Ratts 3 year results where much better than Lyons last 4 years in the bottom 4. Let's hope he can succeed this time around at a rebuild becaue as we know the industry has a big question mark over his greatest weakness.

I love him though, lots.

[saynta]

For now we rejoice in the return of the Messiah.

Some do, some don't. And never will.

Me, I'm staying neutral. at least for the time being.

[Impatient Sainter]

We can garauntee Lyon will bring a playing style or structure the entire list will know well and be well drilled. No longer should we see crabbing sideways out of HB with no one ahead to deliver the ball to. If we show improvement each year while will build our list strength, Im confident Lyon will set us up to get the job done this time around.

[WellardSaint]

We can garauntee Lyon will bring a playing style or structure the entire list will know well and be well drilled. No longer should we see crabbing sideways out of HB with no one ahead to deliver the ball to. If we show improvement each year while will build our list strength, Im confident Lyon will set us up to get the job done this time around.

The sideways crabbing might be due to
1. Players unable to get separation on opponents to receive a pass (several times Max came to wings but had 2-3 opponents on him, ball spilled)
2. Player with ball very unsure about his own disposal accuracy, overthinking it (if I don't nail this, it's coming back and I'll struggle to pick up an opponent)

Think about golf- (i don't play much) I'm about to hit the ball, I'm worried anout where it will go, so I lift my head too quickly...

They need to sort their skills and confidence

[Yorkeys]

We can garauntee Lyon will bring a playing style or structure the entire list will know well and be well drilled. No longer should we see crabbing sideways out of HB with no one ahead to deliver the ball to. If we show improvement each year while will build our list strength, Im confident Lyon will set us up to get the job done this time around.

The sideways crabbing might be due to
1. Players unable to get separation on opponents to receive a pass (several times Max came to wings but had 2-3 opponents on him, ball spilled)
2. Player with ball very unsure about his own disposal accuracy, overthinking it (if I don't nail this, it's coming back and I'll struggle to pick up an opponent)

Think about golf- (i don't play much) I'm about to hit the ball, I'm worried anout where it will go, so I lift my head too quickly...

They need to sort their skills and confidence

Not confident I understand the management phrase perfect can be the enemy of good (?); in the footy context might it mean when under extreme pressure just make sure you advance the ball; don't second guess yourself. A fifty fifty contest is a lot better than a clean turnover to the opposition? Maybe some assistants try for the practically impossible in the quest to sound extra clever rather than keeping it simple.