What do we need to improve in 2024?

[nobhead]

Question - if king netted u 2 high 1st round draft picks that allowed you to draft 2 gun midfielders would you do it???

[B.M]

No

[B.M]

Midfielders vs KPPs is a ratio of about 5:1

There are more mids available

Gun KPPs are harder to come by

[saynta]

Question - if king netted u 2 high 1st round draft picks that allowed you to draft 2 gun midfielders would you do it???

I would try and improve King's skills rather than just giving up on him. But god only knows what players our brilliant coach thinks aren't necessary or don't fit into his grand plans going forward.

[nobhead]

Interesting because collingwood don't really have any dominant key forwards but have some excellent midfielders and manage to score quickly and heavily in most games. Just saying

[The_Dud]

You can’t win a premiership without an elite midfield.

You can win without an elite forward/backline.

An elite midfield can make the other 2 perform better than they actually are.

[SaintDippa]

We could have another 4 games if we cleaned up F50 entries. We can get Weitering, Gawn, Bont and Bradman. If our strategy is deep entries doesn't matter. We can fix it this week and play finals. Don't know if RTB wants the high mark to have to surpass next season.

[nobhead]

You could argue that we have had 2 of the best fwds to ever play the game in lockett and reiwolt and didn't win a flag with them.the game has changed so much in the last 10 years that having good descion makers and skilled ball users is absolutely crucial.

[Teflon]

We simply are not a big enough draw card to trade for top end talent we can only get it through the draft.
If we want to improve and Ross is serious and not just on a nice pay day then harsh decisions need to be made.
The problem is the players that we would be reasonably OK with leaving won't get us much.
There is zero to very mediocre currency in Gresham, Ross, Battle, Membrey etc...
The young guns like NWM, Owens, King, Pou and Windy should be untouchable.
So, if we want first rounders it will require Steele, Wilkie, Sinclair or Marshall to be on the table as a challenging side will see the value in them for a push.
We are in no man's land we either have to cut like there is no tomorrow and hope that the draft is good, not assured for any club, or accept we are mid-table and embrace it.
I guess this is where we find out if Ross is capable of building a list, something he has never done in the past.

Agreed
It’s Lyons biggest test
Pull it off and rebuild and he gets to shut up all the ant Lyon haters who say he has to be handed ready made sides
Stuff it up and his reputation takes a hit and confirms him as a 1 dimensional coach
It’s not a 12 month fix but that said…..get 2-3 good kids in to go with our current crop then add a FA or 2 later and things can turn quickly…

[Killa]

I have put on this Forum previously, and I know it as fact, that Ratten was dismayed by the lack of junior development

That dated from his appointment as Assistant Coach

In the senior position he put it onto our younger contingent to up the pressure on our older players and to replace them

So the likes of Coffield, Clark and Paton became central

Then to Wanganeen-Milera, Owens and Windhager plus his opinion of Peris

This represented a significant change from Richardson (despite their close relationship)

This year, under Lyon, Phillipou and Caminiti have been added

There were some players Ratten was personally chasing, the change of Coach putting paid to those conversations

To be a successful Coach you need to have the cattle

[Teflon]

I have put on this Forum previously, and I know it as fact, that Ratten was dismayed by the lack of junior development

That dated from his appointment as Assistant Coach

In the senior position he put it onto our younger contingent to up the pressure on our older players and to replace them

So the likes of Coffield, Clark and Paton became central

Then to Wanganeen-Milera, Owens and Windhager plus his opinion of Peris

This represented a significant change from Richardson (despite their close relationship)

This year, under Lyon, Phillipou and Caminiti have been added

There were some players Ratten was personally chasing, the change of Coach putting paid to those conversations

To be a successful Coach you need to have the cattle

That may be true but he had 3 years plus was there as an assistant prior ??
In his time we also recruited Hill Butler Jones Crouch Howard
So good that he was dismayed…. But u also have to do something about it ..
I also know from those close to the club that Ratts was selling the “we are in the window” to the Board
I think he was trying to keep his job….fair enough but this list is nowhere near top 4

[Teflon]

After a request for some more of these - Stav BF latest:

******

Ross has complete assurances to do what needs to be done.

He is here for 4 years…. Atleast.

He has people he trusts in key roles.

If he decides tomorrow it needs a full rebuild. They will blow the whole thing up.

I think he will move someone on as a statement to the list. (just my opinion)

as I said last night. Make time. Go to training. The boss will chat honestly with anyone in our colours.

[tony74]

All of that is 100% true. Except the last sentence. Not that he won’t be truthful, he just hasn’t the time. And the one thing to all the knockers. Get down to training. The speed we move the ball forward is completely opposite to game day. It’s quite unbelievable really.

[Teflon]

All of that is 100% true. Except the last sentence. Not that he won’t be truthful, he just hasn’t the time. And the one thing to all the knockers. Get down to training. The speed we move the ball forward is completely opposite to game day. It’s quite unbelievable really.

That’s interesting Tony
I guess it comes down simply to ability and skill to handle match pressure when it comes like it did Saturday
He’s worth a read Stav

[TheGreatZacsby]

After a request for some more of these - Stav BF latest:

******

Ross has complete assurances to do what needs to be done.

He is here for 4 years…. Atleast.

He has people he trusts in key roles.

If he decides tomorrow it needs a full rebuild. They will blow the whole thing up.

I think he will move someone on as a statement to the list. (just my opinion)

as I said last night. Make time. Go to training. The boss will chat honestly with anyone in our colours.

Teflon? Just for my curiosity… I’ve seen you post this guy from Big Footy in the comments and I like what he has to say. Is he someone directly involved with the club and has the scoop?

[Teflon]

After a request for some more of these - Stav BF latest:

******

Ross has complete assurances to do what needs to be done.

He is here for 4 years…. Atleast.

He has people he trusts in key roles.

If he decides tomorrow it needs a full rebuild. They will blow the whole thing up.

I think he will move someone on as a statement to the list. (just my opinion)

as I said last night. Make time. Go to training. The boss will chat honestly with anyone in our colours.

Teflon? Just for my curiosity… I’ve seen you post this guy from Big Footy in the comments and I like what he has to say. Is he someone directly involved with the club and has the scoop?

Tbh not sure if he’s directly involved but he clearly has connections- gets a lot of inside info right and Tony74 on another thread here just mentioned his stuff was 100% accurate and Tony had a direct line himself.
He’s worth a read Stav - well respected on BF too (where there’s actually footy conversations and far less childish sniping).

[Zed]

I was wrapped that we chased JDG hard last year. Exactly what we need.
We need A grade talent - particularly midfielders.
If we can’t buy them in (preferably as FA’s) then need to get top 10 picks to draft them.
We aren’t going to draft elite mids with pick 20, 30 or 40 something.

[TheGreatZacsby]

After a request for some more of these - Stav BF latest:

******

Ross has complete assurances to do what needs to be done.

He is here for 4 years…. Atleast.

He has people he trusts in key roles.

If he decides tomorrow it needs a full rebuild. They will blow the whole thing up.

I think he will move someone on as a statement to the list. (just my opinion)

as I said last night. Make time. Go to training. The boss will chat honestly with anyone in our colours.

Teflon? Just for my curiosity… I’ve seen you post this guy from Big Footy in the comments and I like what he has to say. Is he someone directly involved with the club and has the scoop?

Tbh not sure if he’s directly involved but he clearly has connections- gets a lot of inside info right and Tony74 on another thread here just mentioned his stuff was 100% accurate and Tony had a direct line himself.
He’s worth a read Stav - well respected on BF too (where there’s actually footy conversations and far less childish sniping).

Yeah awesome! Keep posting his comments. They are a real valuable read.

[sks023]

All of that is 100% true. Except the last sentence. Not that he won’t be truthful, he just hasn’t the time. And the one thing to all the knockers. Get down to training. The speed we move the ball forward is completely opposite to game day. It’s quite unbelievable really.

Might look good at training but the ball movement on Saturday was shambolic. Looked like they were trying to flick the ball around faster then their brains could think
Maybe if they slow it down a touch they wouldn't look as inept as they did in that first quater.

I dont remember seeing so many players trying to spend the footy before they got hold of it

[Otiman]

Everyone is talking about players but that isn't the biggest lever we should pull.

We need a quality forward line coach.
We need quality VFL affiliation and head coach at VFL level.

[Teflon]

All of that is 100% true. Except the last sentence. Not that he won’t be truthful, he just hasn’t the time. And the one thing to all the knockers. Get down to training. The speed we move the ball forward is completely opposite to game day. It’s quite unbelievable really.

Might look good at training but the ball movement on Saturday was shambolic. Looked like they were trying to flick the ball around faster then their brains could think
Maybe if they slow it down a touch they wouldn't look as inept as they did in that first quater.

I dont remember seeing so many players trying to spend the footy before they got hold of it

The over use of handball and handballing to the guy next to you when you’re both about to be tackled drives me nuts
We know it’s not in the game plan but geezus this lot under pressure just crumble
Lyons comments around Jones handballing sideways and still learning the game plan were interesting

[cwrcyn]

Seems Ross is having a hard time breaking some players' old habits. When confidence plummets and pressure builds people regress.

[WellardSaint]

Everyone is talking about players but that isn't the biggest lever we should pull.

We need a quality forward line coach.
We need quality VFL affiliation and head coach at VFL level.

Robert Harvey's our fwds coach.
He was at the Pies when they were in the 2018 GF.

Do you think he should leave already?

[Saintmatt]

We have very few players who kick the ball long. Wood, Marshall, Philllipou, and Hill. That's it.

If Ross wants to go young, I'm all for it. We've targeted the wrong players for a decade or more. It's time to get some speed and skill into a stodgy midfield.

You missed Mitch Owens out of that list of yours. He's a monster kick.