My assessment of Tony’s so-called “year of discovery”

[The Fireman]

If you want to be my fanboy that’s fine


I do agree with you about tanking from here on out

[ctqs]

People who get caught up in the week-to-week emotion deserve the roller coaster they're on. I had reservations about Lyon when we signed him but I'm holding fire. We're sixth and making finals is still in our own hands. A lot of flogs have said we'd go backwards this year, perhaps maybe bottom four. That hasn't happened and I understand people may be upset when they're proven wrong, but this is ridiculous. These panic merchants need to pull their heads in and wait.

[Teflon]

Failed at Freo with the rebuild, had a winning percentage of 33% in his final 4 years.

Pressure will come on hard from here on in.

Really looking forward to trade time to see what strategy we adopt, Walsh said we would be going to the draft, if that's the case then the best thing we can do is tank.

What year do you predict that Lyon will be given the sack. I know that it will happen I would like to know just when ,seeing you are spot on with your predictions.

Before his first 4 year contract ends, but it will be along side an implosion at board level as Bassett pinned his presidency to Lyon with his Captains pick so it will be ugly when the time comes. As I have said all along, Lyon is a great coach but what is the magic trick he possesses that can overcome one of the toughest challenges in the industry which is build a flag team at one of the poorest and most unattractive destination in the club.

Do you realise that you repeat yourself

Yes nightly on Bigfooty
His new nic over there is “The Gimp”
But they enjoy kick him round for a laugh

[Teflon]

People who get caught up in the week-to-week emotion deserve the roller coaster they're on. I had reservations about Lyon when we signed him but I'm holding fire. We're sixth and making finals is still in our own hands. A lot of flogs have said we'd go backwards this year, perhaps maybe bottom four. That hasn't happened and I understand people may be upset when they're proven wrong, but this is ridiculous. These panic merchants need to pull their heads in and wait.

Heaps of panic merchants on here
Like that scene off Flying High movie where the frantic women is screaming on the plane and there’s a Congo line of people lined up to pacify her….a few need to be pacified…

[SaintPav]

One does protest too much me thinks.

[The G Train Legacy]

If Saints brains trust need any more discovery they are not very perceptive.
Here's what I reckon:
the playing group have a culture that needs radical surgery;
Ross cannot motivate players individually or as a group;
Our selectors don't realise they are dumb;
This exploratory year bs is crap group think to rationalise taking talented players well and truly backwards;
Keep telling yourself great coaching panel, ignore crap performances say look over there, wink, next year;
Steele needs to be stripped of captaincy;
There is no plan, the place is in disarray.
7 of those pretenders need to be summarily dropped and half a dozen others told unless you put in you won't be playing in first choice 22 next year. Don't care about depth a number of those smug comfortable chaps have to go.
We deserve better.
Next year is going to be excruciating until Ross resigns.

I've heard all this before, not necessarily from you, but pretty much the same sentiments. A long time ago.... in 2007.

Don't think Rossy will be resigning next year.

[Teflon]

One does protest too much me thinks.

Hello here’s panic merchant no 3 without his little mate.. he’ll be along soon enough to help parrot you along
You’ll be fine
Deep breath..

[Teflon]

If Saints brains trust need any more discovery they are not very perceptive.
Here's what I reckon:
the playing group have a culture that needs radical surgery;
Ross cannot motivate players individually or as a group;
Our selectors don't realise they are dumb;
This exploratory year bs is crap group think to rationalise taking talented players well and truly backwards;
Keep telling yourself great coaching panel, ignore crap performances say look over there, wink, next year;
Steele needs to be stripped of captaincy;
There is no plan, the place is in disarray.
7 of those pretenders need to be summarily dropped and half a dozen others told unless you put in you won't be playing in first choice 22 next year. Don't care about depth a number of those smug comfortable chaps have to go.
We deserve better.
Next year is going to be excruciating until Ross resigns.

I've heard all this before, not necessarily from you, but pretty much the same sentiments. A long time ago.... in 2007.

Don't think Rossy will be resigning next year.

Lol I know RTB will be here for 4
I think some better grab some bex and a good lie down …gonna be a painful 4 years raging against the machine

[saynta]

Pinching my lines again? Not the first time either.

[Teflon]

Pinching my lines again? Not the first time either.

Reported for baiting.
Master kind.

[Teflon]

While we are dealing with whingers on year of discovery at Saints these numbers highlighted just how well RTB has done in bringing through kids this year

Note: 2022 King played 22 games ….this year 7
2022 Membrey played 22 games…this year 4

Games played by players aged 20 under
2020: 40
2021: 48
2022: 53
2023: 77

No need to panic merchants…

[SydneySainter]

While we are dealing with whingers on year of discovery at Saints these numbers highlighted just how well RTB has done in bringing through kids this year

Note: 2022 King played 22 games ….this year 7
2022 Membrey played 22 games…this year 4

Games played by players aged 20 under
2020: 40
2021: 48
2022: 53
2023: 77

No need to panic merchants…

You’re missing the point Tefs.

This is less about RTB and more about the fact that the club has squandered the last 11 years on three rebuilds and three coaches and we’re still not a top 8 team.

I’m a RTB fan, but I think it’s an absolute cop out to accept the “year of discovery” crap when not only is this being flogged by same club stooge who also kept backing in Richo, but also the sheer fact that after 11 years, we needed a third coach to reaffirm just how ordinary we are?

If I ever tried to sell this sh*te to a stakeholder, I’d be out of a job.

Ratts, love him or hate him, it wasn’t his fault he was re-signed for a further two years and nor was it necessarily his fault he was speared just 6 months later. Yet another example of diabolical mismanagement from the club.

The fact that RTB is repeating Ratts’ final season to the script is testimony of this.

[Vortex]

While we are dealing with whingers on year of discovery at Saints these numbers highlighted just how well RTB has done in bringing through kids this year

Note: 2022 King played 22 games ….this year 7
2022 Membrey played 22 games…this year 4

Games played by players aged 20 under
2020: 40
2021: 48
2022: 53
2023: 77

No need to panic merchants…

You’re missing the point Tefs.

This is less about RTB and more about the fact that the club has squandered the last 11 years on three rebuilds and three coaches and we’re still not a top 8 team.

I’m a RTB fan, but I think it’s an absolute cop out to accept the “year of discovery” crap when not only is this being flogged by same club stooge who also kept backing in Richo, but also the sheer fact that after 11 years, we needed a third coach to reaffirm just how ordinary we are?

If I ever tried to sell this sh*te to a stakeholder, I’d be out of a job.

Ratts, love him or hate him, it wasn’t his fault he was re-signed for a further two years and nor was it necessarily his fault he was speared just 6 months later. Yet another example of diabolical mismanagement from the club.

The fact that RTB is repeating Ratts’ final season to the script is testimony of this.

Very balanced and hard to disagree with.

We get too wrapped around the axle over coaches when really the issues are much deeper.

“The Club” is the issue.

It’s why I’m always banging on about it not just being the fault of the coach we can’t build a flag type list.

With maybe the exception of the Dwarf I don’t think I’ve ever really laid into our coach for all our woes and I’m pretty certain you’d be flat out finding a post of mine that has demanded the sacking of a coach.

Pretty certain you won’t find a post of mine in a GT vs RL thread either…quite frankly it’s one of the most tedious topics in footy.

[B.M]

To me

Exploration means playing different players - not just the same young players

Even trying players in different roles

Exploration- could mean the revival of a mature player by finding a role they can excel - Wood

[Teflon]

While we are dealing with whingers on year of discovery at Saints these numbers highlighted just how well RTB has done in bringing through kids this year

Note: 2022 King played 22 games ….this year 7
2022 Membrey played 22 games…this year 4

Games played by players aged 20 under
2020: 40
2021: 48
2022: 53
2023: 77

No need to panic merchants…

You’re missing the point Tefs.

This is less about RTB and more about the fact that the club has squandered the last 11 years on three rebuilds and three coaches and we’re still not a top 8 team.

I’m a RTB fan, but I think it’s an absolute cop out to accept the “year of discovery” crap when not only is this being flogged by same club stooge who also kept backing in Richo, but also the sheer fact that after 11 years, we needed a third coach to reaffirm just how ordinary we are?

If I ever tried to sell this sh*te to a stakeholder, I’d be out of a job.

Ratts, love him or hate him, it wasn’t his fault he was re-signed for a further two years and nor was it necessarily his fault he was speared just 6 months later. Yet another example of diabolical mismanagement from the club.

The fact that RTB is repeating Ratts’ final season to the script is testimony of this.

No I get all that and don’t disagree for 10 years the joints been a shambles re it’s footy program
I also think this Board and President were late to the party to ask the key questions much earlier- they brought what the footy dept sold them without fact checking …that’s on them
That footy department were lead by Lethlean AND Ratten IMO both had to go. We were not in the window it was fanciful stuff and the Board are guilty of buying it for too long
Muppets on this site just look at W-L and go “see same results as Brett….so shoulda kept Brett”
Wrong.
Look a little deeper and listen to those who go to training - the standards being set and asked of players are much much higher. So the aside from how we go W/L this year - Ratten had to go and Lyon is playing kids. He knows he has to cause the foundations of this list are made of sand…..older players/leaders aren’t leaders ….middle aged bracket Coffield Clarke etc haven’t set world on fire….it’s the kids giving us hope and in year 1, 2 they should not be carrying this side.
Point is: I agree we’ve been run shambolicly for 10 years but to Bassatt’s credit he’s had enough.
Lyon was brought in on 4 years to work out who is/isn’t an AFL player
I agree with some who suggest he may not even be there at our next flag ….but I suspect he’ll have a big say in the architecture of the side.
So we can’t go back - Board know it they know the list is “not in the window” Lethlean should be kept out of footy decisions and Lyon needs to be given room to do what the last 2 coaches and Administration has failed to do….re-shape this list
It’s a pr!cks job….he’s a pr!ck and sometimes in organisations…you need a pr!ck
I’m confident we have the right pr!ck.

[Yorkeys]

Why?
A number of players have regressed, playing rubbish football, Ross exhibits same frustration as Brett.
I know that Doubting Thomas' was a cautionary tale, but I have seen performances first hand deteriorate over the season with largely the same group, team work and intensity have gone backwards from R1 to now. Have not seen green shoots of a revival. What's forward craft?
There's a bit of a disconnect between the rhetoric and actual? We will improve but not now.
I admit the underlying subtleties and grand plan are too complex for me to grasp. However not one under performing senior player has been dropped, no genius reallocation of resources: is that true? Best kick is taken from the wing and put further away from the attacking area of the game. He's played very well, big talent, but who is firing the ball into the forwards. Pretty sure the opposition don't mind the change, they would swap a pawn for a knight any time.
I think Ross is as much captured by the players as Brett was. Brett tried to kid to them why not us, Ross tells them fumbling rabble. And life goes on in the change rooms as before. Just wait, this too will pass.
I dismiss the references to questioning being a sign of panic. What's to panic about. We have been awful for over a decade, this is just another iteration dressed up as a revolution. There is nothing to lose or panic about, we just haven't gained anything or developed a recognisable plan. Sure I hope its not bogus, but gee did you see the stuff dished up against West Coast and Suns. How we presented the game to Melbourne.

[Teflon]

Why?
A number of players have regressed, playing rubbish football, Ross exhibits same frustration as Brett.
I know that Doubting Thomas' was a cautionary tale, but I have seen performances first hand deteriorate over the season with largely the same group, team work and intensity have gone backwards from R1 to now. Have not seen green shoots of a revival. What's forward craft?
There's a bit of a disconnect between the rhetoric and actual? We will improve but not now.
I admit the underlying subtleties and grand plan are too complex for me to grasp. However not one under performing senior player has been dropped, no genius reallocation of resources: is that true? Best kick is taken from the wing and put further away from the attacking area of the game. He's played very well, big talent, but who is firing the ball into the forwards. Pretty sure the opposition don't mind the change, they would swap a pawn for a knight any time.
I think Ross is as much captured by the players as Brett was. Brett tried to kid to them why not us, Ross tells them fumbling rabble. And life goes on in the change rooms as before. Just wait, this too will pass.
I dismiss the references to questioning being a sign of panic. What's to panic about. We have been awful for over a decade, this is just another iteration dressed up as a revolution. There is nothing to lose or panic about, we just haven't gained anything or developed a recognisable plan. Sure I hope its not bogus, but gee did you see the stuff dished up against West Coast and Suns. How we presented the game to Melbourne.

18 games in….hasn’t had a full pre season /Trade period yet..
We’ve all gone backwards ….
No kids have been played …
King 22 games last year ..7 this
Membrey 22 games last year…4 this
No Bytel ….
We’ve been blown away in multiple games ..(oh..wait..)
It’s over….arrrrrrrggggghhh…
No panic.

[nostalgicsaint]

Why?
A number of players have regressed, playing rubbish football, Ross exhibits same frustration as Brett.
I know that Doubting Thomas' was a cautionary tale, but I have seen performances first hand deteriorate over the season with largely the same group, team work and intensity have gone backwards from R1 to now. Have not seen green shoots of a revival. What's forward craft?
There's a bit of a disconnect between the rhetoric and actual? We will improve but not now.
I admit the underlying subtleties and grand plan are too complex for me to grasp. However not one under performing senior player has been dropped, no genius reallocation of resources: is that true? Best kick is taken from the wing and put further away from the attacking area of the game. He's played very well, big talent, but who is firing the ball into the forwards. Pretty sure the opposition don't mind the change, they would swap a pawn for a knight any time.
I think Ross is as much captured by the players as Brett was. Brett tried to kid to them why not us, Ross tells them fumbling rabble. And life goes on in the change rooms as before. Just wait, this too will pass.
I dismiss the references to questioning being a sign of panic. What's to panic about. We have been awful for over a decade, this is just another iteration dressed up as a revolution. There is nothing to lose or panic about, we just haven't gained anything or developed a recognisable plan. Sure I hope its not bogus, but gee did you see the stuff dished up against West Coast and Suns. How we presented the game to Melbourne.

18 games in….hasn’t had a full pre season /Trade period yet..
We’ve all gone backwards ….
No kids have been played …
King 22 games last year ..7 this
Membrey 22 games last year…4 this
No Bytel ….
We’ve been blown away in multiple games ..(oh..wait..)
It’s over….arrrrrrrggggghhh…
No panic.

Spot on.



Training watchers have noticed the difference.
We are still 6th
Kids getting played.


Can't believe the melt on here which has been driven by Ross being direct. Is that not what we want? High performance cultures don't shirk the issues and are accountable.

At no stage did I see or hear Ross say the coaches (of which he is one) don't also need to improve....

Let's see how everything looks after Ross has had two trade periods/list management periods to deal with. Until then he is playing with someone else's hand.

[desertsaint]

i first visited this site in 2007 when many on here were lambasting lyon for leading our great club out of finals for the first time since 2003. at round 17 we sat 9-8. hmm.

[desertsaint]

April 2008
viewtopic.php?t=42071

SACK ROSS LYON
We are going nowhere.

Plus about 20 useless F*%$ers on the list.

[desertsaint]

i was one of them. not this time.
well...not yet.

[Teflon]

Why?
A number of players have regressed, playing rubbish football, Ross exhibits same frustration as Brett.
I know that Doubting Thomas' was a cautionary tale, but I have seen performances first hand deteriorate over the season with largely the same group, team work and intensity have gone backwards from R1 to now. Have not seen green shoots of a revival. What's forward craft?
There's a bit of a disconnect between the rhetoric and actual? We will improve but not now.
I admit the underlying subtleties and grand plan are too complex for me to grasp. However not one under performing senior player has been dropped, no genius reallocation of resources: is that true? Best kick is taken from the wing and put further away from the attacking area of the game. He's played very well, big talent, but who is firing the ball into the forwards. Pretty sure the opposition don't mind the change, they would swap a pawn for a knight any time.
I think Ross is as much captured by the players as Brett was. Brett tried to kid to them why not us, Ross tells them fumbling rabble. And life goes on in the change rooms as before. Just wait, this too will pass.
I dismiss the references to questioning being a sign of panic. What's to panic about. We have been awful for over a decade, this is just another iteration dressed up as a revolution. There is nothing to lose or panic about, we just haven't gained anything or developed a recognisable plan. Sure I hope its not bogus, but gee did you see the stuff dished up against West Coast and Suns. How we presented the game to Melbourne.

18 games in….hasn’t had a full pre season /Trade period yet..
We’ve all gone backwards ….
No kids have been played …
King 22 games last year ..7 this
Membrey 22 games last year…4 this
No Bytel ….
We’ve been blown away in multiple games ..(oh..wait..)
It’s over….arrrrrrrggggghhh…
No panic.

Spot on.



Training watchers have noticed the difference.
We are still 6th
Kids getting played.


Can't believe the melt on here which has been driven by Ross being direct. Is that not what we want? High performance cultures don't shirk the issues and are accountable.

At no stage did I see or hear Ross say the coaches (of which he is one) don't also need to improve....

Let's see how everything looks after Ross has had two trade periods/list management periods to deal with. Until then he is playing with someone else's hand.

Well said.

[The G Train Legacy]

Why?
A number of players have regressed, playing rubbish football, Ross exhibits same frustration as Brett.
I know that Doubting Thomas' was a cautionary tale, but I have seen performances first hand deteriorate over the season with largely the same group, team work and intensity have gone backwards from R1 to now. Have not seen green shoots of a revival. What's forward craft?
There's a bit of a disconnect between the rhetoric and actual? We will improve but not now.
I admit the underlying subtleties and grand plan are too complex for me to grasp. However not one under performing senior player has been dropped, no genius reallocation of resources: is that true? Best kick is taken from the wing and put further away from the attacking area of the game. He's played very well, big talent, but who is firing the ball into the forwards. Pretty sure the opposition don't mind the change, they would swap a pawn for a knight any time.
I think Ross is as much captured by the players as Brett was. Brett tried to kid to them why not us, Ross tells them fumbling rabble. And life goes on in the change rooms as before. Just wait, this too will pass.
I dismiss the references to questioning being a sign of panic. What's to panic about. We have been awful for over a decade, this is just another iteration dressed up as a revolution. There is nothing to lose or panic about, we just haven't gained anything or developed a recognisable plan. Sure I hope its not bogus, but gee did you see the stuff dished up against West Coast and Suns. How we presented the game to Melbourne.

Who are the players that have regressed?

[Yorkeys]

Quote: "Who are the players that have regressed?"
End round 5: 1st; 16 pts
Rs 6 -10: 5th, 12 pts, minus 24% (deduction from end round 5 %.)
Rs 11-15: 5th, 4 pts, minus 11%
Rs 16-18: 6th, 4 points, minus 5%
a trend to a lower state? The base comparison is getting lower though so it could turn around soon.
Unfortunately the only players that might have improved that come to mind are Nasiah and Owens, both great natural talents. And too much might be being asked of Mitchito. The North and Hawks games should see an uptick for the Rs 16-20 stats. (Apologies to the improving players that didn't come to mind, its so cold and windy today).

[The G Train Legacy]

Quote: "Who are the players that have regressed?"
End round 5: 1st; 16 pts
Rs 6 -10: 5th, 12 pts, minus 24% (deduction from end round 5 %.)
Rs 11-15: 5th, 4 pts, minus 11%
Rs 16-18: 6th, 4 points, minus 5%
a trend to a lower state? The base comparison is getting lower though so it could turn around soon.
Unfortunately the only players that might have improved that come to mind are Nasiah and Owens, both great natural talents. And too much might be being asked of Mitchito. The North and Hawks games should see an uptick for the Rs 16-20 stats. (Apologies to the improving players that didn't come to mind, its so cold and windy today).

You didn't answer my question. You named 3 players that have improved and team performance in different periods this season. You haven't named a single player who has regressed in your view.