An early season test for our coaches

[skeptic]

It’s been a bit of a roller coaster so far…
2/2 with a combined losing total of 13 points
Injury ravaged list
Some what erratic form

With a little bit of luck, we could have been 4-0 . Certainly the Essendon game is one we lost rather than one that they won… and we’re pbly all feeling a bit relieved to take home the points tonight after conceding the first 4 goals and kicking 1 to half time.
The flipside there however is that that third quarter was our best for the season.

Nonetheless… a few concerning themes are jumping out at me that I think need to be course corrected.

Byrnes - have run out of patience with for now. Needs a spell. Way too erratic with his disposal… and whilst we can all appreciate his work rate, he needs a heck of a lot more than 14 touches to be carried. Kid needs to be racking them up and firing them to runners.
At this point, I’d rather see Garcia get opportunity though he should lose his spot to Windhager next week.

Zak Jones- WTF happened to him? 11 touches tonight and subbed out. 16 last week and 15 before that… not only not enough ball but largely completely devoid of impact. Remember this guy was the zippy midfield with mongrel that kicked goals and gave us an edge!?
Played 3 games in a row and is an absolute shadow of himself and I don’t know that I want to risk more senior game time trying to play him into form. Take it to Sandy IMO. Dow is listed as 2 weeks away - absolutely earmarked for this spot.

Butler had an injury impacted off-season and walked right back into the senior team with two performances.
Absolutely should have rewarded Collard with the opportunity IMO and I think I’d still like to see it.

On that note… the forward line in general
King, Membrey, Coops and Caminati - too tall. Seems to be that King and Caminati don’t gel that well together and Coops is being pushed up the ground which isn’t really his strength. All 4 aren’t great without the ball and the pressure aspect here sees the ball being run out too easily. Not sure what the answer is here but we need a re-jig

Sub - I don’t we’re doing it right. Supposed to be impact players or good injury depth/versatility.
I don’t think we’ve gained anything from a substitution so far this season… and I can’t say I’ve seen enough of Hastie or Collard to suggest anything. Certainly no gains there for either.


On the flip side -
Good to see Bonner bounce back
NWM seems to have gone up another gear
Schoenmaker has been decent at Sandy could debut
Wilson has exceeded expectations
Backline has held up well
Seb Ross - has been great for 3 weeks

[nostalgicsaint]

Byrnes does a lot of unrewarded running which is important to the team

Agree re Jones. Gives me Mav Weller almost lunging vibes.

Butler deserves what he has got and will get better and better.

Agree re forward line. I think the side can only really carry one of Hammer or Sharman in an ideal world. I'd push Hammer out for now and get him to dominate VFL. Sharman goes back forward properly, hastie starts as a starting wingman and Jones goes to sub.

[skeptic]

Also… I left Hayes off my list of positives.

Nice to have him back

[meher baba]

If you have too many developing players in a team it isn’t going to win many games.

We already have Caminiti, Sharman, Owens, Phillipou, Wilson and Hastie, and presumably Windhager will come back in next week. And now you want to add Bonner, Schoenmaker and Garcia. It’s far too many!

[skeptic]

If you have too many developing players in a team it isn’t going to win many games.

We already have Caminiti, Sharman, Owens, Phillipou, Wilson and Hastie, and presumably Windhager will come back in next week. And now you want to add Bonner, Schoenmaker and Garcia. It’s far too many!

Not really what I said.
Bonner is already there
I just said that Schoenmaker was making a good case at Sandy… defence is the hardest spot to break into

I also suggested that Byrnes should make way for Windy but acknowledged that Garcia was looking alright.

I also suggested that Caminati and Coops together wasn’t working

[meher baba]

Sorry, I typed Bonner when I meant Collard, who you seem to want to come in for Butler.

[Nick DalSanto Claus]

If you have too many developing players in a team it isn’t going to win many games.

We already have Caminiti, Sharman, Owens, Phillipou, Wilson and Hastie, and presumably Windhager will come back in next week. And now you want to add Bonner, Schoenmaker and Garcia. It’s far too many!

What if they're all high quality players, who are rated in our top 23?

Essendon 1993, for example. Hird, Misiti, Calthorpe, Mecuri, Alessi, Fletcher et al.

[samuraisaint]

Owens, Windhager, Caminiti, Phillipou, Wanganeen-Milera, Wilson, Sharman and Hastie should all stay in the side when able to do so. Collard could come in too, based on what he has been doing at Sandy.
They, along with King, Higgins, and Stocker are the future.

[Vortex]

It’s been a bit of a roller coaster so far…
2/2 with a combined losing total of 13 points
Injury ravaged list
Some what erratic form

With a little bit of luck, we could have been 4-0 . Certainly the Essendon game is one we lost rather than one that they won… and we’re pbly all feeling a bit relieved to take home the points tonight after conceding the first 4 goals and kicking 1 to half time.
The flipside there however is that that third quarter was our best for the season.

Nonetheless… a few concerning themes are jumping out at me that I think need to be course corrected.

Byrnes - have run out of patience with for now. Needs a spell. Way too erratic with his disposal… and whilst we can all appreciate his work rate, he needs a heck of a lot more than 14 touches to be carried. Kid needs to be racking them up and firing them to runners.
At this point, I’d rather see Garcia get opportunity though he should lose his spot to Windhager next week.

Zak Jones- WTF happened to him? 11 touches tonight and subbed out. 16 last week and 15 before that… not only not enough ball but largely completely devoid of impact. Remember this guy was the zippy midfield with mongrel that kicked goals and gave us an edge!?
Played 3 games in a row and is an absolute shadow of himself and I don’t know that I want to risk more senior game time trying to play him into form. Take it to Sandy IMO. Dow is listed as 2 weeks away - absolutely earmarked for this spot.

Butler had an injury impacted off-season and walked right back into the senior team with two performances.
Absolutely should have rewarded Collard with the opportunity IMO and I think I’d still like to see it.

On that note… the forward line in general
King, Membrey, Coops and Caminati - too tall. Seems to be that King and Caminati don’t gel that well together and Coops is being pushed up the ground which isn’t really his strength. All 4 aren’t great without the ball and the pressure aspect here sees the ball being run out too easily. Not sure what the answer is here but we need a re-jig

Sub - I don’t we’re doing it right. Supposed to be impact players or good injury depth/versatility.
I don’t think we’ve gained anything from a substitution so far this season… and I can’t say I’ve seen enough of Hastie or Collard to suggest anything. Certainly no gains there for either.


On the flip side -
Good to see Bonner bounce back
NWM seems to have gone up another gear
Schoenmaker has been decent at Sandy could debut
Wilson has exceeded expectations
Backline has held up well
Seb Ross - has been great for 3 weeks

The forward line is as big concern as the midfield. Max King is yet to live up to expectation, Sharman and Cammers are a fair way off it, Members is Members, Butler 2 games in might find form, Higgins doing OK.

But King is a worry, today was a day when he could of filled his boots and really rag dolled one of the weakest backlines in the comp, but I get the same uneasy feeling Lowe gave me when he'd line up for a set shot. He's our marquee forward and he needs to be kicking at least 60+ this year if he wants to meet the lofty expectations the club placed on him when they picked him and number 4.

[bobmurray]

Also… I left Hayes off my list of positives.

Nice to have him back

Either Hayes was sore at training on Thursday or he has another injury, i don't know what the issue was, but he was training with the rehab group.

Misson, after watching Hayes for awhile, walked across the ground and spoke to Hayes for sometime. Hayes left the ground not long after that.

[Trixilver]

I don't know what people issue is with Byrnes. He's one of the only players I see having some kind of impact in tight. I'm not sure, maybe I have to watch our poor moments more closely but it feels like pretty much everyone was turning it over in the first half, so why single him out?

[Scollop]

I don't know what people issue is with Byrnes. He's one of the only players I see having some kind of impact in tight. I'm not sure, maybe I have to watch our poor moments more closely but it feels like pretty much everyone was turning it over in the first half, so why single him out?

Agree with you. CURLY and others only want to point out Ronnie's mistakes... nothing else. They need a scapegoat whenever things aren't looking good

Hilly had the worst numbers for turnovers and clangers. 5 clangers - 6 turnovers. Combined total 11

Seb Ross. Combined 10. I give him a pass, because he was one of the highest for pressure and tackles and most of the day he was good.

The whipping boy Riley Bonner had only 3 clangers and 4 turnovers.

Byrnes 2 clangers only and 3 turnovers.

Josh Battle who some had as bog, had 4 clangers and 5 turnovers. Zero tackles. Zero contested marks.

[skeptic]

I don't know what people issue is with Byrnes. He's one of the only players I see having some kind of impact in tight. I'm not sure, maybe I have to watch our poor moments more closely but it feels like pretty much everyone was turning it over in the first half, so why single him out?

The first thing is that he needs to get more ball.
Had 14 disposals the last 2 weeks.

The other thing is… he’s fading late in games.
Has had 4 touches combined (1 & 3) in the last quarters of the last 2 games. He also had 3 touches in the last quarter v Geelong. Don’t know if it’s a case he’s tiring because of how hard he’s working… but something is up here

IMO as a mid, you have to go in one of three directions.
1) You win a lot of ball
2) You’re very damaging with the possessions you get
3) You’re doing an effective role e.g. tagger

Byrnes isn’t hugely damaging with the ball - he ranges from being competent to liability.
I don’t think he’s tagging. We all acknowledge that he works really hard, gets to a lot of contests and throws himself around but IMO that not enough.

I actually think he has a great head for football and is prone to picking the better options… and this is reflected in the games where he has gotten north of 20 touches… he usually features in the votes. But as a permanent winger, he’s got to find a way to bump that number up from around 14-17 to over 20 more consistently.

That’s my take

[Scollop]

Just for comparison sake, Jack Steele had 18 contested possessions and Sincs had 12.

Both had 5 turnovers. Steele had 4 clangers and Sincs had 3.

[skeptic]

Steele with 33 touches and 10 tackles and Sinclair had 29!

Not much of a comparison

[saintsRrising]

It’s been a bit of a roller coaster so far…
2/2 with a combined losing total of 13 points
Injury ravaged list
Some what erratic form

With a little bit of luck, we could have been 4-0 . Certainly the Essendon game is one we lost rather than one that they won… and we’re pbly all feeling a bit relieved to take home the points tonight after conceding the first 4 goals and kicking 1 to half time.
The flipside there however is that that third quarter was our best for the season.

Nonetheless… a few concerning themes are jumping out at me that I think need to be course corrected.

Byrnes - have run out of patience with for now. Needs a spell. Way too erratic with his disposal… and whilst we can all appreciate his work rate, he needs a heck of a lot more than 14 touches to be carried. Kid needs to be racking them up and firing them to runners.
At this point, I’d rather see Garcia get opportunity though he should lose his spot to Windhager next week.

Zak Jones- WTF happened to him? 11 touches tonight and subbed out. 16 last week and 15 before that… not only not enough ball but largely completely devoid of impact. Remember this guy was the zippy midfield with mongrel that kicked goals and gave us an edge!?
Played 3 games in a row and is an absolute shadow of himself and I don’t know that I want to risk more senior game time trying to play him into form. Take it to Sandy IMO. Dow is listed as 2 weeks away - absolutely earmarked for this spot.

Butler had an injury impacted off-season and walked right back into the senior team with two performances.
Absolutely should have rewarded Collard with the opportunity IMO and I think I’d still like to see it.

On that note… the forward line in general
King, Membrey, Coops and Caminati - too tall. Seems to be that King and Caminati don’t gel that well together and Coops is being pushed up the ground which isn’t really his strength. All 4 aren’t great without the ball and the pressure aspect here sees the ball being run out too easily. Not sure what the answer is here but we need a re-jig

Sub - I don’t we’re doing it right. Supposed to be impact players or good injury depth/versatility.
I don’t think we’ve gained anything from a substitution so far this season… and I can’t say I’ve seen enough of Hastie or Collard to suggest anything. Certainly no gains there for either.


On the flip side -
Good to see Bonner bounce back
NWM seems to have gone up another gear
Schoenmaker has been decent at Sandy could debut
Wilson has exceeded expectations
Backline has held up well
Seb Ross - has been great for 3 weeks

I think your post is ignoring that our current huge injury and suspension list greatly limits the Club from playing the balance and structures that the club would prefer.

This week with Windy also out suspended they opted for Caminiti rather than a raw kid in a team that is already very young and inexperienced.

Most likely Windy will come back in for Caminiti next week.


Unfortunately though the club is probably over a month away from actually getting closer to the team the Coaches would like on the park. Well probably more like two months away.


Right her and now our depth is non existent. Some of the players picked are in the team as we have little choice. They are in by necessity, rather than on form. Team selection rather than who do we want in the team, is more who is fit enough to play. Just throwing a bunch of extra kids now like Collard and Arie would most likely do more harm than good. Just look at North with their thumpings at present.


Remember too that players coming back after injury and no match practice in their pre-season take time to run into form. Sincs is now getting their. Butler not yet.

[Scollop]

Steele with 33 touches and 10 tackles and Sinclair had 29!

Not much of a comparison

Sorry. Was supposed to be an add on after thought comparing clangers and turnovers with other players.

Interesting that you mentioned tackles. Every time Jack Steele tackles it usually creates a turnover so that adds value to the team. I checked Sincs tackle numbers...he did have 3 for the day.