Max vs Ben

[saintbob]

There are days when I'd take someone like McCluggage and 2 x 2nd rounders for him in a heartbeat and other days where I wouldn't trade him for the world, but unfortunately the later are few and far between.

[Scollop]

I wonder how St Kilda would be performing (and how we'd look like in games) if we'd just made the right choice with our number 1 draft picks in 2014... which would in turn have changed our philosophy and choices in later years.

How about this scenario. I won't go back to the 2013 draft, because of the uncertainty, but in 2014 we all know Christian Petracca was the obvious choice. That means we prioritise change to the midfield group and it could have meant getting a fair return for trading out Jack Steven in 2018 ( when he first said he wanted out).

If Richo and Lethlean weren't more concerned about saving their jobs than they were about getting St Kilda closer to becoming a premiership contender, then after Roo and Joey retired they should have acknowledged that there needed to be a bottoming out. It happened anyway... even if those two sold the board a bunch of fairytales.

So...back to the hypothetical..It's 2017. We know that we'll be looking for a KP Forward with Roo's retirement imminent and only Josh Bruce in that role...so in the 2017 draft we get Clark at pick 7 and Aaron Naughton at pick 8.

So...we get Petracca and he develops and stays with us through to 2018....then we look to add more mids as we bottom out in 2018 and (apologies to Max here) we select Connor Rozee with our first pick.

So instead of McCartin, Coffield and King. We'd have Petracca, Naughton and Rozee

Even if we did go for King with our first pick, we could have held on to our FRDP at the end of 2019...and that would have meant we'd have a choice of Flanders (pick 11) or...Kozi Pickett who went to Melbourne at pick 12 or Will Day(13), Miles Bergman (pick 14).

Without the board sucombing to Lethlean's inclusions with Hannebery, Hill, Howard, Jones and Butler we could have been doing what we did the last few years (i.e. hit the draft hard). But done it earlier and perhaps been more advanced than where we are now.

If we went down that path of doing a proper rebuild in 2017/18/19 we should have had both Naughton and Max King. They could interchange forward and back (in their first 2-3 years) with their development. And we'd currently have a strong and deep and talented midfield..oh well .If only

[Saints58]

Last season Ben had about 7-8 weeks when he got consistently 0 to 1 possession and no goals he is very lazy compared to Max and played most of his junior career as a KD not much forward.
He can't be drooped either Drew tried last season but was told by club Ben kind is not droppable.
interesting if Hardwick is in that position what will happen.

[B.M]

We are the next pick club

2001 Judd
2007 Dangerfield
2013 Bontempelli
2014 Petracca
2017 Naughton
2018 Rozee

All taken with the very next pick after ours - there are more, that’s just from memory

Then there Frawley and Reiwoldt in 2006 taken a few picks after ours

Jimmy Bartel in 2001 taken 2 picks after our pick


Our drafting history is tragic

[bigcarl]

Glad we got Max over Ben. He has seniority and is the alpha, not to mention his mum’s favourite

[B.M]

Ben 14.6
Max 6.6

What is going wrong with the way we use Max or how he plays at StK compared to Ben at GC

[Vortex]

Ben 14.6
Max 6.6

What is going wrong with the way we use Max or how he plays at StK compared to Ben at GC

Is that the right question?

Just because they are twins does it mean they should both have equal talent and or have to play the same position equally well.

Max has rarely looked comfortable, Ben does.

[Rubyjo]

Let's just get Waterman from the Eagles..he is looking and playing like the G train..exactly what we need.

[B.M]

Waterman is a hack

[Yorkeys]

Injuries and a hard game against us hit the Tiges.

[B.M]

You’d think twins

The same height, the same weight, the same experience, same position

Both done an ACL and a few other injuries

Yeah, they are comparable

[B.M]

What I found really strange

At a f50 ball up, Ro was obviously set up behind the ball outside 50

Membrey took the ruck contest (at 188cm) opposed to Briggs
Obviously Briggs got an easy HO to advantage and GWS cleared the ball

We had 202cm Max King 15m away in the goal square (completely irrelevant
And the ‘second ruck’ Mitch Owens 190cm nearby in the corridor


I’d have King taking the ball up
Owens at the clearance

In fact nothing wrong with King taking f50 ruck contests
He’s 6’8”

[Scollop]

What I found really strange

At a f50 ball up, Ro was obviously set up behind the ball outside 50

Membrey took the ruck contest (at 188cm) opposed to Briggs
Obviously Briggs got an easy HO to advantage and GWS cleared the ball

We had 202cm Max King 15m away in the goal square (completely irrelevant
And the ‘second ruck’ Mitch Owens 190cm nearby in the corridor


I’d have King taking the ball up
Owens at the clearance

In fact nothing wrong with King taking f50 ruck contests
He’s 6’8”

Yeah but you’re forgetting that this is Winx we’re talking about

You don’t run Winx at Warnnambool in the steeple chase or regional Group 4 races…do you?

Joking obviously. Roo and Joey and few others christened Max with that nickname way before he earned it!!

The ridiculous thing was that Lethlean and Richardson treated him like he was a superstar the moment he set foot in the club

He was going to be the next Rooy and Buddy combined.

[Zed]

So we’ve established that they play differently.
That’s great news as it means that there should be room for both in our forward line !
Throw the cheque book at Ben and bring him home - along with a couple of midfielders.

[Otiman]

St Kilda has always pinned its hopes on individuals, as far back as I remember.

Until we put the team and club first, we will keep making the same mistakes.

[SinCitySainter]

St Kilda has always pinned its hopes on individuals, as far back as I remember.

Until we put the team and club first, we will keep making the same mistakes.

Yes, we have and unfortunately we are still doing the messiah complex.
Though at the moment it all seems to be about the coach rather than a single player.

[B.M]

Teams are no good without star individuals

Name a premiership team - I’ll give you half a dozen superstars

[Otiman]

At least the coach is a step towards the club focus.

[The Fireman]

Teams are no good without star individuals

Name a premiership team - I’ll give you half a dozen superstars

Footscray

[B.M]

In 2016?

Bontempelli, Liberatore, McCrae, Daniel, Johannison, Wood, Boyd, Dunkley, Stringer, Morris

[The Fireman]

In 2016?

Bontempelli, Liberatore, McCrae, Daniel, Johannison, Wood, Boyd, Dunkley, Stringer, Morris

They are all superstars ??

[B.M]

Bontempelli - definitely
McCrae - 3 time AA
Liberatore- absolute gun
Dale Morris - gun
Easton Wood - gun
Caleb Daniel - AA
Stringer - in 2016 was I think AA and a star forward
Johannison- was outstanding in 2016

I am grading all these players on there form in 2016

They finished 7th remember- and had a form spike in the finals