Did anyone envisage this season when RL was appointed

[Teflon]

I agree Leo and its true most people are generally stupid

well...they might be in the circles that you move in........

we still on for the box rumphole?
your arguments are circular....does that mean your not stupid?

[Teflon]

I agree Leo and its true most people are generally stupid and dont look to the reasons why we may not be paying the way we did in 04....Im not going into these in detaisl (its been done to death) suffice to say:

We have a new coach,
The game has changed markedly since Lions won 3 in a row,
Weve had a shyte injury run AND
Perhapsmost importantly this squad is not the 04 or 05 squad - I suspect age is catching a few fast...a few have stagnated......and a few dropped right off.............thats footy.

As for us supposedly "having our nest side on the park for the last 2 yrs" thats not entirely true is it?

Well at least I'm not stupid enough to hit submit without proof reading my post!

Nah but you are stupid enough to spend time and go back to correct it?

Kudos to you you've mastered proof reading....meh... who honestly gives a toss on a footy forum???.....time better spent elsehwere....and you clearly still got my point so need I do anymore?

u need to get out more.

[Teflon]

Teflon, I don't mind fair criticism, but in this instance you have verballed me. I can't speak for the others, but I have never complained about the players not playing to the game plan: not this year nor last year. I have always tended to blame injuries and endemic poor goalkicking for most of our problems, although this year I am certainly far from impressed with what our new coaching staff appear to be trying to serve up.

9/10 of your posts since Lyon has taken overf have been about how bad our game plan. How hypocritical to suggest you have never balmed game plans...then proceed to do it ad nauseum when GT has gone and Lyon has taken over and isnt through season 1 yet.

You don't get it, do you Teffers? I'm happy to be highly critical of game plans - both GT's and Lyon's (and Sheldon's and Alves's and Watson's and Blight's if you want). But I don't buy into the idea of saying "there's nothing wrong with the gameplan, it's just the players' failure to execute it". Without being on the inside, it's too hard for me to work out the distinction between what the coach wants and what the players actually deliver. I just assume that the players are at least attempting to do what the coach wants, and then try to form a view of the coach's plans. I also look at the performances of individual players, but I don't get off on the "all the players should go and have a themselves, they were a collective disgrace" sort of comment, which you seem to favour.

color=blue]Quite simply Thomas copied Brisbanes game plan. It failed.... I know already Lyon has a far better technical grasp of the game than Thomas ever did.[/color]

So that's it, is it? That's the sum total of Thomas's coaching strategy? A direct copy of Brisbane's game plan? You can seriously (well, I can only presume you are serious) come up with that drivel and then have the hide to dump all over my analysis?

And how did Thomas's game plan fail exactly, genius? Must have been in that it won us too many games and enabled us to score too many points!!

Ok lets break it down for you Babblelots......cause your stuck in first...

1. Your original posts says I (do u even read/remember what you write?) that you invariably have always blames our poor runs in the past on injury or poor goa kicking (thats very narrow...but also very you...) BUT THIS YEAR you magically dont like the game plan? Oh I wonder if it still has anything to do with the facts that your still pining for Lord Voldemont...

2. You say above that you are not on the inside (Im thinking previously you may have been.....rocking gently in a chair in the corner...) so you cant know the coaches instruction.....so you "assume" the players are doing what the coach wants and make one of your informed guesses from there?....hmm...and you label that analysis???? what if they ARE NOT doing what he wants genius - you still got enough to judge? yep...

3. Ofcourse Thomas copied Brisbanes game style - thats been well reported...whats so hard to get there? I had to agree with you when you asked if that was it....I also found myslef asking the same question about Thomas game plan when it fell apart consistently at the flood hump.

4. How did Thomas game plan fail? So you reckon after 5 years Grant Thomas leave St Kilda as a raging success? thats what your after is it? good finals only to be shafted by playing injured players and to lose prelims.....but your happy with that so good for you. Very St Kilda I might add. I note many successful clubs seem to expect a little more....maybe your a great example of whats been missing at St Kilda for a long time - expected success....of the PREMIERSHIP kind.

No....you ARE the genius and I apologise....

[Life Long Saint]

Nah but you are stupid enough to spend time and go back to correct it?

Kudos to you you've mastered proof reading....meh... who honestly gives a toss on a footy forum???.....time better spent elsehwere....and you clearly still got my point so need I do anymore?

u need to get out more.

I need to get out more...This coming from the clown that has over 5000 posts to their name. 4.2 posts per day! What a life you must lead!

I haven't mastered proof reading at all. It probably shows that I take a little more care about things than you do.

As for your "point"...did you actually make one or were you just blaming all the players for our current plight?

What most of the "perceived" anti-Lyonists are saying is that it is not Ross Lyon that is the problem, it is the game plan that ignores the strengths of our list.

Not everything to do with the on-field performance is about Thomas v Lyon or Thomas v Butterss.

If I do need to get out more then I will use that time building a bridge in the hope that you will get over it!

[mbogo]

We have taken the "shut down" aspect and taken to ridiculous poportions.

For other teams its a small part of the gameplan, and the art is choosing when to implement in the context of a game/quarter.

For US, it IS the gameplan, and when it dosent work (most times), we go to s*** and look stupid.

Beautifully put. That sums up exactly what I'm beginning to think too.

I don't want us to be another Sydney, even if there's a flag in it.

The above quote is as idiotic as anyone suggesting GT should have been sacked even if he got a flag.
And if I see some sense in this thread - I will have a say - but post-mortems occur after the cadaver is cold.
Whatg a great build-up to our most important game - sounds a bit "GT" to me. And is a bit smelly!

[Teflon]

Nah but you are stupid enough to spend time and go back to correct it?

Kudos to you you've mastered proof reading....meh... who honestly gives a toss on a footy forum???.....time better spent elsehwere....and you clearly still got my point so need I do anymore?

u need to get out more.

I need to get out more...This coming from the clown that has over 5000 posts to their name. 4.2 posts per day! What a life you must lead!

I haven't mastered proof reading at all. It probably shows that I take a little more care about things than you do.

As for your "point"...did you actually make one or were you just blaming all the players for our current plight?

What most of the "perceived" anti-Lyonists are saying is that it is not Ross Lyon that is the problem, it is the game plan that ignores the strengths of our list.

Not everything to do with the on-field performance is about Thomas v Lyon or Thomas v Butterss.

If I do need to get out more then I will use that time building a bridge in the hope that you will get over it!

Clowns and bridges? you think those up yourself?

But(t)seriosuly...you take "a little more care about things" than I? or you take "a little more care" about dumb, insignificant things than I?...L'll leave you to work out Cluedo......whats a better usage of time...

Now that I mentally fatigued after that verbal joust.... on topic:

I know what the simple Lyon bashers are claiming - what I am saying is - we have had 18 games from a side that for half a season has had dreadful injury, players coming back from major injuries or interrupted pre season - the point????........its a little silly to be putting the way we are currently playing entirely at the feet of game plan........

In a nutshell - Im already well aware the problem isnt about Lyon, Thomas Butters blah blah.....and theres much more to the way we are playing........maybe you need to spend your energies convincing somem of your grilfriends of this?

[The_Dud]

i think when u start attacking someone about their grammer it shows that you're starting to grasp at straws......

[karnaby]

I don't want us to be another Sydney, even if there's a flag in it.

See, I agree with most things in this thread, but I'd flood 24/7 if it meant we could win a flag.

Seriously, we shouldn't have sacked Thomas - it's clear it wasn't football related (watch RB's warriors jump all over that call). I think most people see that. However, that's no excuse for not backing RL if he does the right things.

Sadly, he's making a lot of mistakes early in his tenure. I'm prepared to give him time before jumping on him, but some of his strategies are not what I'd associate with good coaching.

Why you'd flood doubly as hard when chasing a result, against Sydney of all teams, is Tim Watson-esq.

There's a lot of rough edges to Ross's game plan and he needs to realise what it takes to create a hard and fast team, not just one who floods for the sake of flooding.

Don't get me wrong, defensive football is extremely important, and we lacked it sometimes under GT. It's about balance - and we've definitely not got it. Steps must be taken to rectify it. West Coast, Geelong and the Kangaroos have proven that whilst a strong defence is vital, kicking goals is still the name of the game.

I used to think no matter what, we could kick a winning score. I don't know about that any more. It's a bit scary.

Still, we must give RL time, even if we don't trust him yet.

My final thought would be that when he was hired, I said we'd probably fall just short of the eight as a result of his appointment. It seemed like an outrageous time to change coaches; surely you'd wait for the incumbant to run his course, not usurp him after three straight finals series. It was a confusing decision, explained badly to the club's members and still unvindicated to this day.

I also felt it would hurt the incoming coach, whoever it was. And to hire him during trade week - and not before - was the icing on the cake. GT was dudded and, as a result of subsequent delays, RL was hamstrung.

Everybody lost out, and I feel sorry for the fans, the players, Grant Thomas and Ross Lyon.

Bad off-field decisions have hurt this club more than any of RL's tactics, to be honest.

Very well put evertonfc, quality post!

One point I'd like to follow up is about your term:

...watch RB's warriors jump all over that call...

Well frankly there is this certain arrogant pr1ck that has been all over this forum over the last 18 mths or so & I seriously wonder if it is RB. The same person might have gone around as 'Arrogant & Loving It' a few years ago too . But then what would I, or anyone else know? After all most people <read most of us> are generally stupid, aren't they

[Life Long Saint]

i think when u start attacking someone about their grammer it shows that you're starting to grasp at straws......

Thanks for your input...

I just think that if you're going to refer to people that disagree with your point of view as "stupid" then you need to be above reproach. That, above all other things, is grasping at straws.

[Winmarvellous]

I don't think we were going any further with Thomas at the helm, and other teams were circling for our spot. Hence, I approved of the appointment. However, I thought Lyon would tinker with our attack a little, but bring Sydney's hardness to the contest with him. Gotta admit, I didn't think the change would be as drastic, or ugly, as it has turned out, but we're still around the same mark as last year. Not too bad for a transition year, but some major work needs to be done in the offseason if we're to go anywhere in the next 5 years.

[Leo.J]

I did envisage a hell of a lot of bickering on SS from the usual suspects, and I was right.

[Teflon]

i think when u start attacking someone about their grammer it shows that you're starting to grasp at straws......

Well said Dud.......but I think your preaching to someone who takes themselves and things written on a footu forum a tad seriously....

[Life Long Saint]

Today showed what we can do when given a little licence to take some risks.

19 goals!

Two key players out so injuries can't be used as an excuse.

This is the way we should have been playing all season. This is what I expected. Take some risks when we have the ball and be accountable when we don't have it.

BTW, Teffers...Loved your contribution to the match day thread...about 1/2 way through the game you ask..."Where is Kosi??? Haven't heard him mentioned all game."
Absolute quality post!

[bigcarl]

This is the way we should have been playing all season. This is what I expected. Take some risks when we have the ball and be accountable when we don't have it.

exactly. should be challenging for the flag, not hoping to fall into the 8

[Teflon]

Today showed what we can do when given a little licence to take some risks.

19 goals!

Two key players out so injuries can't be used as an excuse.

This is the way we should have been playing all season. This is what I expected. Take some risks when we have the ball and be accountable when we don't have it.

BTW, Teffers...Loved your contribution to the match day thread...about 1/2 way through the game you ask..."Where is Kosi??? Haven't heard him mentioned all game."
Absolute quality post!

Glad you got your jollys cause I couldnt see the whole game today LLS - nice to have my own stalker.

What did you think of our Sydney game plan today?????? oh let me guess.......Ross changed the entire game plan JUST before the start of play.....OR maybe...just maybe......we finally executed as a playing group???

Keep up the fascinating insight - there's some Japanese midgets who love your stuff....

[Teflon]

This is the way we should have been playing all season. This is what I expected. Take some risks when we have the ball and be accountable when we don't have it.

exactly. should be challenging for the flag, not hoping to fall into the 8

spot on Carl!

Quality contribution and I agree wholeheartedly we shoukld have challenged for a flag in 06 also...but le me guess.......we can make excuses for that?

I say we bring back Grant - whats say you start the petition and I'll meet you at Docklands 6am tomorrow to get the chant underway????? - LLS can bring the soup and blankie?

[Leo.J]

spot on Carl!

Quality contribution and I agree wholeheartedly we shoukld have challenged for a flag in 06 also...but le me guess.......we can make excuses for that?

I say we bring back Grant - whats say you start the petition and I'll meet you at Docklands 6am tomorrow to get the chant underway????? - LLS can bring the soup and blankie?

Quality contribution that...

[Life Long Saint]

Glad you got your jollys cause I couldnt see the whole game today LLS - nice to have my own stalker.

What did you think of our Sydney game plan today?????? oh let me guess.......Ross changed the entire game plan JUST before the start of play.....OR maybe...just maybe......we finally executed as a playing group???

Keep up the fascinating insight - there's some Japanese midgets who love your stuff....

Own Stalker...
Don't flatter yourself!

I was reading the Game Thread post to see if anyone saw any vision of the Baker/Farmer incident as I was at the game and didn't see anything...I read the entire first page which was dedicated to Kosi being out. I went to the middle of the thread only to see your post asking about Kosi! I thought it was gold!

For the record, Teflon...I have NEVER said we play like Sydney. Nor have I said our game plan is like Sydney's. What I have been saying is that we do not have a game plan that plays to our strengths.

Today we played to our strengths. The game plan never needed major surgery, it just needed a tweak and one simple instruction to the players may have made a difference.

All we can do is speculate and base our suppositions on what we see. Today I saw a different St Kilda. I saw a team that backed themselves and took risks. I saw a team that moved the ball forward quickly despite being down key position players and on-ballers. I saw a team that pressured the opposition when we didn't have the ball.

This is the sort of football that I expected from Round 1. More-so when we had injuries. Throw caution into the wind and try to win games. Don't stop doing the things that got you in front and let the opposition back into the game.

[Teflon]

Glad you got your jollys cause I couldnt see the whole game today LLS - nice to have my own stalker.

What did you think of our Sydney game plan today?????? oh let me guess.......Ross changed the entire game plan JUST before the start of play.....OR maybe...just maybe......we finally executed as a playing group???

Keep up the fascinating insight - there's some Japanese midgets who love your stuff....

Own Stalker...
Don't flatter yourself!

I was reading the Game Thread post to see if anyone saw any vision of the Baker/Farmer incident as I was at the game and didn't see anything...I read the entire first page which was dedicated to Kosi being out. I went to the middle of the thread only to see your post asking about Kosi! I thought it was gold!

For the record, Teflon...I have NEVER said we play like Sydney. Nor have I said our game plan is like Sydney's. What I have been saying is that we do not have a game plan that plays to our strengths.

Today we played to our strengths. The game plan never needed major surgery, it just needed a tweak and one simple instruction to the players may have made a difference.

All we can do is speculate and base our suppositions on what we see. Today I saw a different St Kilda. I saw a team that backed themselves and took risks. I saw a team that moved the ball forward quickly despite being down key position players and on-ballers. I saw a team that pressured the opposition when we didn't have the ball.

This is the sort of football that I expected from Round 1. More-so when we had injuries. Throw caution into the wind and try to win games. Don't stop doing the things that got you in front and let the opposition back into the game.

Thats wonderfull LLS.

Today I saw a side execute a game plan the coach has stated publicly hes been trying to install all year - NOT the super Sydney style the stupid ones would have us all beleive we have simply copied.

I do not beileve for 1 second that Lyon "changed" his game plan before todays game - I do beleive the penny dropped for some of our players and that physically we maintained the rage for a full 4 qtrs.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

an interesting read from the 2007 season ... some of the comments from here are almost exactly the same from some of the comments made in the last week

[matrix]

bloody hell a 5 year bump

either you were seriously bored last night or actually bookmarked the thread

[Stillwaiting]

I am surprised that it took this long for one of those early anti Lyon threads to be brought back to life

[st_Trav_ofWA]

bloody hell a 5 year bump

either you were seriously bored last night or actually bookmarked the thread

neither curiosity had me click on the last page of threads just to see what was there i sadly had a bit of fun re reading some of the stuff in the archives ... especially the outrage over Bakes getting done for the Farmer hit ...

[stinger]

interesting read i thought...

[matrix]

ahhhh
the farmer incident
place wouldve been going bananas