Thommometer

[Armoooo]

HE'S GONE, MOVE ON

....

[Armoooo]

The thread title was pretty straight forward.... Don't Read it !

Thommometer is pretty straight forward?
Jeez, you must be a gun at cryptic crosswords, how many people with the laast or first name begining with thom do you think there have been in the AFL?

[Mr Magic]

HE'S GONE, MOVE ON

But apparently he left with our safety deposit box as well!

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

The thread title was pretty straight forward.... Don't Read it !

Thommometer is pretty straight forward?
Jeez, you must be a gun at cryptic crosswords, how many people with the laast or first name begining with thom do you think there have been in the AFL?

Only 1 that would be important enough to rate on this site i'd say

[Lenny_Hayes7]

It's a saints forum right? We don't have a thommo on our list so put 2 and 2 together and it's not hard!

[meher baba]

GT inherited a club at the bottom of the table which had been coached successively by a good coach who was knifed in the back, a coach whose name has become a byword for inept coaching, and a show pony who was more interested in his golfing handicap than the team's win-loss ratio.

Between the three of them, these coaches took the club a point at which it was bouncing along the bottom of the table.

GT took over to a chorus of catcalls and derision from most of the great and good of the AFL world. While he and Butterss were working together as a team, they were able to take the club from the bottom to within a cat's whisker of a premiership within 3 years.

Some of you like to suggest that the sole explanation for this success was the swag of great draft picks we snared. But, if that was the case, why haven't clubs like Carlton, Richmond, the Bombers, the Bulldogs or, until very recently, Hawthorn been able to translate similar generous treatment through the draft process into comparable on-field success. Moreover, many of our excellent draftees were not priority or particularly early draft picks: Dal, Joey, Chips, etc.

In short, GT was a success as a coach: especially in his first four full seasons. His ultimate failure was to take his team to the finals in three successive seasons. Lyon has yet to achieve this level of failure.

Those of you who wish to rate GT lowly are simply vindictive know-nothings IMO.

[Armoooo]

It's a saints forum right? We don't have a thommo on our list so put 2 and 2 together and it's not hard!

How soon we forget...


Also just because it has THompson in the title doesn't mean it's going to be a comparison between him and Lyon, just in case you missed it he's been in the news a bit the last couple of weeks...

[Armoooo]

GT inherited a club at the bottom of the table which had been coached successively by a good coach who was knifed in the back, a coach whose name has become a byword for inept coaching, and a show pony who was more interested in his golfing handicap than the team's win-loss ratio.

Between the three of them, these coaches took the club a point at which it was bouncing along the bottom of the table.

GT took over to a chorus of catcalls and derision from most of the great and good of the AFL world. While he and Butterss were working together as a team, they were able to take the club from the bottom to within a cat's whisker of a premiership within 3 years.

Some of you like to suggest that the sole explanation for this success was the swag of great draft picks we snared. But, if that was the case, why haven't clubs like Carlton, Richmond, the Bombers, the Bulldogs or, until very recently, Hawthorn been able to translate similar generous treatment through the draft process into comparable on-field success. Moreover, many of our excellent draftees were not priority or particularly early draft picks: Dal, Joey, Chips, etc.

In short, GT was a success as a coach: especially in his first four full seasons. His ultimate failure was to take his team to the finals in three successive seasons. Lyon has yet to achieve this level of failure.

Those of you who wish to rate GT lowly are simply vindictive know-nothings IMO.

Wow, very convincing post, great work and I am one who has been anything BUT a supporter of GT...

Personally I think that GT was vital in our success however I don't believe that he was a good enough coach to take us all the way, I wish the whole situation was handled better and that he was still at the club in some capacity, whether it be developmental or what ever, I just don't think that being head coach was ever for him...

[Mr Magic]

Mods, please lock this thread and the Lyonometer one because Mischa is upset with this one.

[esaint66]

all of our past 4 coahces have been very intelligent men but i just thought 3 of them (blight (many may argue this because he did the double wuith adelaide),watson and gt) didnt have what it took to get us to that last day in spetember.

they have been so intelligent they have all gone and made very succsesful media careers.

[esaint66]

Mods, please lock this thread and the Lyonometer one because Mischa is upset with this one.

yes mods please lock the lyonmeter thread very poor. im pretty sure wqas made out of a joke and why would anyone bag our coach now when its during his coaching tenure and hes going so well?

[Otiman]

It's a saints forum right? We don't have a thommo on our list so put 2 and 2 together and it's not hard!

Yes, but we have a (and i would say THE) Thommo on the board.

[joffaboy]

Failure.

[mad saint guy]

As coach: +70
As freshly sacked coach and new radio caller: +100
After he ran out of interestg things to say and starts stirring up controversy for the sake of it: -100

[saintsRrising]

Some of you like to suggest that the sole explanation for this success was the swag of great draft picks we snared. But, if that was the case, why haven't clubs like Carlton, Richmond, the Bombers, the Bulldogs or, until very recently, Hawthorn been able to translate similar generous treatment through the draft process into comparable on-field success. .

No not all all....not what I have said at all.......but I will answer your question.

GT's Boon goes like this:
1/ Finishing low at the same time as generous priority picks were put in place. Effectively DOUBLE the benefit for finishing so low.

2/ For some extra cream the Blues were caught cheating and stripped of picks presenting the saints with BJ.

3/ Waldron in a real coup of wheeling and dealing used Blight coming to the club to help attract a posse of stars and also just good players to come to the club. Such an occurance is almost unheard of and the only other time that I am aware of was North capitalising on the 10 year rule to grab Davis, Wade , Rantall etc. This added Stars and depth at the same time to the Saints list.

So GT won WatsonLotto, BlueLotto and BlightLotto.

No other club has had so much luck (though the Waldron led recuiting was skill....and yes assisted by RB, GT pre-coach and others) in gaining such arapid improvement in their playing stocks.

The prior Saints list also had some real top end cream....so the influx of new and established cream madea good mix...especially once the kids had time to bloom.



The Hawks have now had more low draft picks and priority picks......and where are they??? so far their draft picks have proven to be on the whole good picks. They also off loaded older players to get more draft picks.

The Bombers??? Sorry MB...I must have misssed the many years of the Bombers finishing bottom or near to it.

The Dogs.....no where near the number of low picks.....and certainly no boon of good...and there best player lured to the Tigers.

The Tigers......seem to make an art form of wasting draft picks.

:
Moreover, many of our excellent draftees were not priority or particularly early draft picks: Dal, Joey, Chips, etc.
.

Exactly...these selections had nothing to do with the coach.....

The coach gets involved with the trades......and the ones that GT got involved as coach with were on the whole poor....often dismal.





GT arriving when he did received the biggest combined boon of any club since North took full advantage of the 10 year rule.

GT took this advantage.....and failed to fully capitalise on it.

Indeed as the Premiership Cup glittered close he then started to progressively destroy the value of the list.

Poor trade after poor trade ( Gram one of the few wins) as he went into top up mode. Now nothing wrong with topping up IF you can make the right calls. GT made bad call after bad call.

Said he only valued good ruckmen...but secured Knoble, Rix and Ackland!!!!!

Combining with this GT could not work with strong personalities with the result that two gifted players in Everitt and Hall left the club (though at least JB salvaged Hall by picked Dal...whereas GT left to trade for Everitt frittered two low draft picks away on Brooks).

[TimeToShineFellas]

In short, GT was a success as a coach: especially in his first four full seasons. His ultimate failure was to take his team to the finals in three successive seasons.

No, his ultimate failure was not delivering us a Flag.

Not sure how you define "success" in coaching, but I rate them according to winning Premierships in September (or October if you count 1990).

3 finals campaigns in a Row with jack-shyte to show for.

No flags won in that time, so I wouldn't consider it to be successful.......

St Kilda has only had one successful coach in its entire history.

I have very faith that Ross Lyon will be the man who delivers us Flag number 2.

[saintsRrising]

: His ultimate failure was to take his team to the finals in three successive seasons. .

His Ultimate failure was in fact in two areas:

1/ As mentioned by me above he destroyed value in the list rather than added value.

2/ He was a devisive control freak that broke relationships and inspired bitterness wherever he has been.

Such personalities divide organistaions and destroy value.

Lyon has yet to achieve this level of failure.

.

And yes lets be thankful that RL would seem to be exactly the opposite:

1/ His trades are adding value to the list.

(trades so far of M Gardiner, C Gardiner, Birss, King, Schneider and Dempster for only picks 26 and 43.....compared to a swag of picks including two first round selections for not much more than Gram)

2/ He is a builder of relationships.

[magnifisaint]

GT inherited a club at the bottom of the table which had been coached successively by a good coach who was knifed in the back, a coach whose name has become a byword for inept coaching, and a show pony who was more interested in his golfing handicap than the team's win-loss ratio.

Between the three of them, these coaches took the club a point at which it was bouncing along the bottom of the table.

GT took over to a chorus of catcalls and derision from most of the great and good of the AFL world. While he and Butterss were working together as a team, they were able to take the club from the bottom to within a cat's whisker of a premiership within 3 years.

Some of you like to suggest that the sole explanation for this success was the swag of great draft picks we snared. But, if that was the case, why haven't clubs like Carlton, Richmond, the Bombers, the Bulldogs or, until very recently, Hawthorn been able to translate similar generous treatment through the draft process into comparable on-field success. Moreover, many of our excellent draftees were not priority or particularly early draft picks: Dal, Joey, Chips, etc.

In short, GT was a success as a coach: especially in his first four full seasons. His ultimate failure was to take his team to the finals in three successive seasons. Lyon has yet to achieve this level of failure.

Those of you who wish to rate GT lowly are simply vindictive know-nothings IMO.

Bah!

Isn't it IMHO?

Show some humility man!

[Eastern]

HE'S GONE, MOVE ON

SECURITY !!

Someone has hacked into the HIMBO's account !!

[rodgerfox]

So GT won WatsonLotto, BlueLotto and BlightLotto.

No other club has had so much luck (though the Waldron led recuiting was skill....and yes assisted by RB, GT pre-coach and others) in gaining such arapid improvement in their playing stocks.

Are you sure about that??

JeffDunne and Joffaboy might be able to help you out with some figures in relation to draft picks.

[saintsRrising]

Are you sure about that??

JeffDunne and Joffaboy might be able to help you out with some figures in relation to draft picks.

Who is only talking draft picks????

That was MB...not me. You are confused.


Also please note...as per your habit in selective editing you left out a very important word.....rapid

[rodgerfox]

GT arriving when he did received the biggest combined boon of any club since North took full advantage of the 10 year rule.

GT took this advantage.....and failed to fully capitalise on it.

Indeed as the Premiership Cup glittered close he then started to progressively destroy the value of the list.

Now this is an argument that I find so ignorant, that it is almost offensive.

Noone can doubt that the StKFC didn't benefit from the draft system. We did.

However, the difference was the of the benefits we received from it, the following happened....

Kosi never really got on the park.

Goose got OP then broke his leg.

Roo didn't play his first season, then played 05 with a cactus shoulder.

Luke Ball after 04, couldn't run due to OP.

Luke Penny did his knee.

Hamill never played more than half a year, and only 1 final.

X Clarke was injured more often than not.

Raph Clarke ditto.

Gehrig played 05 and 06 with a bad foot and broken thumb, meaning he couldn't mark with his hands after 2004.



So, of the 'benefit's' that Thomas 'was handed', amounted to stuff all in relation to the results we got.


There is simply no way that the 'high draft pick' line can be linked to our finals performances in 05 and 06.

The guys we scored from the draft, never played a part. I still find this argument simply astounding and unbelievably ignorant.

[JeffDunne]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result".

[saintsRrising]

Have look at 2004 Rodge.....see below

Lots of games played.... and then yes lots of players missing games later.

Now GT had to manage players fitness......took resposnibity for it, demaded it in fact.....and could not do it.

It would be interesting if we could go back in time and have proper injury management of players such as Hamill, Kosi, The Clarkes, Ball etc.. instead of the GT led era whose ide of expert advice was weird liquide diets from Russina' Gurus. By the way how is GT's diet going?

You complain repeatedly about "if only GT had a full list' failing to ackowledge that he wanted to lead the charge in this area.

His gross mismanagement of our playing list in terms of conditioning the players cruelled his chances yes....

GT was not unlucky...he was incompetent.


Rank Name Games Average
1 Lenny Hayes 23 22.22
2 Robert Harvey 23 21.65
3 Luke Ball 25 19.96
4 Nick Dal Santo 25 18.84
5 Austinn Jones 25 18.64
6 Heath Black 20 18.30
7 Nick Riewoldt 25 17.28
8 Stephen Powell 20 17.25
9 Andrew Thompson 24 14.21
10 Steven Baker 21 13.76
11 Aaron Hamill 18 13.22
12 Brett Voss 21 12.76
13 Brendon Goddard 24 12.58
14 Justin Peckett 11 11.55
15 Matthew Maguire 17 11.53
16 Leigh Montagna 9 11.22
17 Justin Koschitzke 17 11.18
18 Jason Blake 19 11.00
19 Xavier Clarke 19 10.79
20 Max Hudghton 16 10.62
21 Leigh Fisher 5 10.60
22 Fraser Gehrig 23 10.35
23 Matthew Ferguson 5 10.00
24 Sam Fisher 7 9.43
25 Troy Schwarze 17 8.82
26 Luke Penny 20 8.65
27 Stephen Milne 21 7.52
28 Brent Guerra 18 6.61
29 Trent Knobel 24 6.12

[barneyboyz]

As a coach, I thought Grant was the new messiah and I was a big fan of his. But these new people, led by Ross, they have taken it to a new level, I mean the proof will be his success of course, but if you look at his recent history the man must be a genius! don't play down his effect on our win last week, he took on a master and won, this was a coaching win as much as any other thing. he is a maestro, me thinks!

by the way...GT. +50 (he held us back long enough to bring on those guys!!)