LRT and Bolton - The 'Tunnelling' thread

[hAyES]

Reminds me of this bloke


http://www.youtube.com/v/drPQkEsM8uM


Can you embed youtube vids here?

He was the first person I thought of when I saw this tunneling bull****. Deliberately trying to injure a player is the lowest thing you can do.

[bigcarl]

it has to be far worse than dragging a player's arms down in a marking contest considering the damage it could cause a player falling from that height on to his neck or shoulders.

it is a dangerous tactic that should be outlawed and i'm not surprised that in basketball it is considered a low, dog act.

well done to all concerned - loris, eastern, ausfatcat etc - for putting this issue on the agenda. the power of the internet is awesome.

btw, did roo even get a free kick?

[loris]

[quote="bigcarl"]

btw, did roo even get a free kick?[

quote]

No he didn't as I stated earlier, the first time I thought is was accidental...part of the game.

the second time ..... I thought what is this....same player, same situation...and Roo landed very heavily.

I mentioned to Karnaby who I was sitting beside watching the game on TV...gee I think they outlaw that in rugby taking a players feet out from under him. It reminded me of spear tackling wich I know is a definite NO! NO!

Then it happended 2 more times on Roo... one successful attempt and one botched attempt and I was totally disgusted. It was obviously a practised tactic.

Christ (it's Easter so I'm feeling free to use Christ's name in my anger) that is such a low, low a tactic, Paul Roos....you are coach you are responsible for the players on your team and their tactics. Previously I have bee such a supporter of you.. I'm devestated this has been resorted to win a footy match.... ie take a star player out of a contest in a possibly crippling manner. SHAME

What such an encounter can do to some unsuspecting player legitimately going for a mark with eyes on the ball is..... cause a major injury. Hey do you have a conscience???

Oh it might only cause a bruised hip, BUT it could be a major back or worse still a spinal injury...who wants that on their conscience for a game of footy......... how do you explain that to your kids...win at all costs if there is no rule to outlaw it.

I can see Roo's game has been scrutinized very carefully by opponent coaches.... they noticed how he can run under the ball and still be in the marking contest....this new tactic has been a smart way to take him out of the contest totally.....but unless the powers that be act very quickly on this dangerous tactic it could take him and other free marking forwards out of the game completley....what a sad state if cowardly snipers can do just that.

Gee I'm angry over this......... I hate seeing footballers get injured, no matter who they play for, after all they are only young lads playing a game they love.

If this tactic is not stamped on early it's open slather on high marking, leading ball players, who bring great joy to the game...not the spoilers.

SHAME SYDNEY AND PAUL ROOS THIS HAPPENDED TOO TOO OFTEN ON ONE PLAYER IN THE SAME MANNER IN ONE GAME FOR IT TO BE A CO-INCIDENCE!!
I hope the AFL really delves deeply into this IMHO cowardly attempt at bending the rules and you get caught this time. SHAME!!!!!!!

[Mr Magic]

I reckon its as disgraceful a tactic as the Hocking hit on Harvey at Kardinya Park that caused the 'Harvey Rule' to be introduced.

[bigred]

Apparently a formal complaint has been lodged... It cannot be directly against Sydney so to speak, but all it can do is raise the issue.

However no rule exists for such a thing.

Its dangerous, very dangerous. If by chance it was an official tactic of Sydney, it wont last long.

The incidents have been replayed several times on TV....looked deliberate to my eyes and happened a few times too many to be "accidental". Very, very irresponsible.

And as for Roo leading under the ball....WTF? His strength is his over head marking. He is always going to lead hard for the overhead and why wouldnt he....Just because some talentless goombah is going to try to hurt him using this method....

[SaintBot]

both riewoldt and koschitzke were victims of it

ive never seen it happen constantly like that, causing the question to be asked

Bolton is one player iv generally respected, however even though he would have been commanded by one paul roos to employ such tactics, he still - with ease - followed through with his orders

Roberts-Thomson is an un-co lump who never stood a chance in the air against our forwards

really really low - hope this all gets full media coverage so all eyes are on riewoldt and sydney

[matrix]

I reckon its as disgraceful a tactic as the Hocking hit on Harvey at Kardinya Park that caused the 'Harvey Rule' to be introduced.

i almost jumped thru the telly when whiskers did that.
prick.

[stinger]

Saints planning challenge to Swans 'tunnelling' tactic

Caroline Wilson | March 25, 2008

ST KILDA is reviewing the potentially dangerous tactics it believes were employed by Sydney on Saturday night against its spearhead captain Nick Riewoldt.

The Saints' chief executive Archie Fraser confirmed last night that his club was considering lodging an official complaint with the AFL and its umpires boss Jeff Gieschen.

In a dispute that would pitch Ross Lyon up against his close friend and mentor Paul Roos, the Saints have become increasingly frustrated at the increasing tendency to stop Riewoldt by employing "tunnelling" tactics — a method that appeared to be adopted several times on Saturday night by Swans defender Craig Bolton.

"We were concerned about it on the night," confirmed Fraser. "I watched the game live and afterwards I asked our coaches to have a very close look at it but they were already aware of it and already looking at it.

"We've got to think carefully about the way we approach this but we want to make people aware of it because we don't want to see it become a feature of the game.

"It's used in basketball and if it had been a rugby league game it would have been a penalty and on at least one occasion Nick landed on his head. It seemed to happen about three times with one player and then LRT (Lewis Roberts-Thomson) employed a similar tactic later with less effect. We need to stop it and nip it in the bud if it's happening deliberately."

Rule changes over recent years have increasingly restricted defenders in their attempts to hamper key forwards and the Saints believe Riewoldt was first targeted by tunnelling last season.

The method sees defenders stop key forwards in their attempts to mark by upsetting their centre of gravity by making contact by chesting the lower half of the forward's body.

Riewoldt appeared increasingly frustrated by Bolton's tactics on Saturday night and the St Kilda coaching panel equally concerned.

It is understood the Saints had not ruled out approaching the AFL on Thursday with a series of incidents from the close, defensive encounter in which only 12 goals were scored in total and the game slammed by leading commentators.

The Saints contingent plans to put forward the duty of care argument to the AFL pointing out that tunnelling could cripple a footballer.

"They need to look at this because if it's used effectively on 'Roo' (Riewoldt) then it's going to keep happening and have an adverse effect on all our leading forwards like Pavlich and Brown and Lloydy," said Fraser. "We don't want it to become something our best players need to worry about or put up with."

[Mr Magic]

My guess is that teh AFL and the media experts will just turn this into 'Saints making waves' exercise and quickly sweep it under the rug.

Then when the inevitable serious injury occurs watch them all proclaim how they are 'appalled' by this tactic.

[sainta]

Looking at the second incident on the youtube clip when Nick is trying to keep on his feet after the incident, it doesn't look a good way to land for your knees. So not only possible head, neck and spinal injuries but could also lead to knee or even wrist injuries trying to break your fall.

[Buckets]

Dog act needs to be looked at. Don't give a stuff about those who would think that this is just taking the toughness out of the game! Defender knew he was not going to make a contest so tried to but Roo off balance needs to be stopped and quickly before someone breaks their neck!

[meher baba]

Previously I have bee such a supporter of you.. I'm devestated this has been resorted to win a footy match.... ie take a star player out of a contest in a possibly crippling manner. SHAME

Hi loris, I agreed with everything else you said in your post, but erhaps you haven't watched too many games involving the Swans in the past few years.

Paul Roos is personable enough in TV interviews and etc. to come across as a "nice guy". But he isn't: as a coach has brought the AFL game to new all-time lows of ruthless gamesmanship, based on an overall approach which he has directly imported from American football.

The tunnelling is just the latest in a long list of other crimes devised and implemented by Roos, such as:

- making endless deliberate infringements in the hope of wearing down the umps' resolve until they start nitpicking the opposition in an attempt to cover their backs by "evening up" the free kick count (worked a dream on Saturday night)
- a clear strategy of endless whinging for non-existent free kicks, particularly when playing at home and there is a chance of stirring up a bunch of their more ignorant supporters to roar at the umps
- a culture of shirt-tugging, arm grabbing, tripping and (as we saw in 2005) even criminal assault by the forward trio of O'Keeffe, Hall and O'Loughlin on their marking defenders, after carefully checking that the umps can't see them
- a consistent strategy of diving on the ball, pulling opponents on top them by the jumper, and then having their teammates gather round screaming out for holding the ball
- a style of play based on a "win at all costs" mentality which is stifling the life out of AFL as a spectacle

No wonder Demetriou had a go at them in 2005!! But, until the AFL gets over their deluded obsession of achieving domination in Sydney on the coat tails of a permanently successful Swans, Paul Roos knows that he can degrade and undermine the game as much as he likes in the pursuit of victory and the AFL won't do what ought to be done: namely, umpire the Swans out of each and every game they play until they desist from their systematic and premeditated rule-breaking.

[Dan Warna]

we should move to employ this tactic as soon as possible.

only by its proliferation will justice be done.

st kilda will be seen as a soft target unless we play like football.

if its legal use it.

heck as soon as we started using the tactic employed in 04/05 where the midfielder runs past a blocker to shake the tag it was howled down and freekicked out.

WCE, geelong and collingwood were applauded for this cunning strategy to free up their midfielders in 07 ><

adapt or die.

and frankly if they see a few of their players hitting the turf face first, they'll think twice about this issue.

st kilda shouldn't be a soft target.

IMO fight fire with fire.

[aussiejones]

a style of play based on a "win at all costs" mentality which is stifling the life out of AFL as a spectacle .

Is there a difference between Brisbane (Scott Bros) Sydney (tunnelling and other tactics) ?

To me its playing a stopping game ,often outside the rules but certainly outside the spirit most teams play . Why , if you havnt got the tallent then stop (or injure ) a player .
Just like a late contact or a high contact , these stopping strategies need to be penalized .

Ok the game continues to evolve , and smart coaches will employ every tactic available .

The counter measures are : deliver the ball to the players chest
Outlaw potentially dangerous tactics like tunnelling.

The AFL must act and act fast. Hopefully the rules committe will for the good of the game and before serious injury results.

[ausfatcat]

Dan thats exactly what I was thinking.. nothing will be done until we start doing it.


Or someone gets hurt severly.

[Dan Warna]

Dan thats exactly what I was thinking.. nothing will be done until we start doing it.


Or someone gets hurt severly.

even then if its a st kilda player it doesn't matter.

watch what happens if its leo barry or jonathan brown.

8 weeks for a multiple broken bones on someplayers and the AFl will go mental.

the AFL are no different to he ICC, they'll follow the $$

because its st kilda we'll be lucky to get a nod from the AFL.

sheedy called it years ago.

[meher baba]

To me its playing a stopping game ,often outside the rules but certainly outside the spirit most teams play . Why , if you havnt got the tallent then stop (or injure ) a player.....

Ok the game continues to evolve , and smart coaches will employ every tactic available....

The AFL must act and act fast. Hopefully the rules committe will for the good of the game and before serious injury results.

I don't agree that it's all up to the rules committee. The clubs and coaches have a responsibility to upphold the "spirit of the game", as you put it so well.

The fact is, the style of coaching adopted by Paul Roos is a disgrace to the game. And the AFL knows it but hasn't yet had the guts to do anything about it directly, but prefers to snipe at him from the sidelines (hence the hoohah about deliberately throwing the NAB cup game).

I wonder if the spectacle we saw on Saturday of Roos on the sidelines and Longmire in the box was a preview of some sort of behind-the-scenes AFL move to get rid of Roos??

[Oh When the Saints]

I don't agree that it's all up to the rules committee. The clubs and coaches have a responsibility to upphold the "spirit of the game", as you put it so well.

But do they?

We're talking about their job security and livelihood here. There's serious money involved ... and at the end of the day, the 16 AFL coaches and assistants keep their jobs by winning premierships.

Dennis Pagan had Carlton playing free flowing, high-scoring football in 2007 and he got sacked.

How many people go to work and think: "I'm going to uphold the moral values and principles of my profession today"?

Very few .... most go to work and perform their job to the requirements of their employer, so they can keep their job.

The requirements of AFL clubs are winning premierships ... and hence coaches do their job to meet those requirements.

[evertonfc]

Well said OWTS.

Winning is everything to people in footy.

Sydney's 2005 premiership required flooding.

Carlton's 1995 premiership required rorting.

People will do anything to win...and thereby keep their jobs.

[meher baba]

I don't agree that it's all up to the rules committee. The clubs and coaches have a responsibility to upphold the "spirit of the game", as you put it so well.

But do they?

We're talking about their job security and livelihood here. There's serious money involved ... and at the end of the day, the 16 AFL coaches and assistants keep their jobs by winning premierships.

Dennis Pagan had Carlton playing free flowing, high-scoring football in 2007 and he got sacked.

How many people go to work and think: "I'm going to uphold the moral values and principles of my profession today"?

Very few .... most go to work and perform their job to the requirements of their employer, so they can keep their job.

The requirements of AFL clubs are winning premierships ... and hence coaches do their job to meet those requirements.

Doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, skilled tradesmen, politicians, policemen, public servants and many other types of workers have a formal or moral obligation to uphold the standards of their profession (this is not in anyway to suggest that they universally do this).

AFL is not primarily about winning premierships, it is about entertaining the public, attracting sponsors, gaining prime-time TV exposure, etc. All of these things depend on the game maintaining certain ethical standards. The way that Paul Roos coaches his team to cheat as much as it can get away with is an action in clear breach of those standards: just as much, if not more, than individual players taking performance-enhancing drugs.

If you go along with that false old cliche of "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" look at the growing contempt which the public and sponsors in most parts of the world (except, oddly, for Australia) now feel towards the Tour De France.

[Dan Warna]

im probably a bit different to you mehar.

Im quite anti drugs because it is against the rules, and illegal.

this strategy employed against us maybe morally wrong, however unless penalised, is functionally legal.

as such we need to employ it.

IMO fight fire with fire.

its legal, so hit em.

personally I would love to see it banned, but till then I dont want us to be targets.

[B W and R all over]

It is a very effective tactic to use against Riewoldt because he does get caught under the ball quite a bit. I put this down to two reasons.

1. He moves a lot faster than most tall forwards, so probably gets there quicker than most are used to.

2. Also the disposal to him on the lead isn't always pinpoint. Most of the time it isn't actually. Our kicking to a man on the lead isn't always very precise.

[stinger]

How many people go to work and think: "I'm going to uphold the moral values and principles of my profession today"?

wasn't said...didn't need to be...was just expected.......and i am not kidding.....

[Dan Warna]

It is a very effective tactic to use against Riewoldt because he does get caught under the ball quite a bit. I put this down to two reasons.

1. He moves a lot faster than most tall forwards, so probably gets there quicker than most are used to.

2. Also the disposal to him on the lead isn't always pinpoint. Most of the time it isn't actually. Our kicking to a man on the lead isn't always very precise.

so in brief...your better than me, so im going to cripple you?

[iwantmeseats]

I said it on another thread, its pure and simple, its called interference (in the marking contest) and should be a free kick every time. No need for any new rules or anything along those lines. Why does no one in the media see this?

Maybe the umps have having conceeded that they missed frees that should have been payed to roo.