That is about how the team should have been selected for the Lions game.vacuous space wrote:Final teams
ST KILDA
B: Jason Blake, Max Hudghton, Sean Dempster
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, Brendon Goddard
C: Nick Dal Santo, Luke Ball, Leigh Montagna
HF: Adam Schneider, Nick Riewoldt, Clint Jones
F: Shane Birss, Justin Koschitzke, Stephen Milne
Foll: Steven King, Lenny Hayes, Robert Harvey
Int: Michael Gardiner, Jarryn Geary, Matthew Ferguson, David Armitage
Emg: Ben McEvoy, Andrew McQualter, James Gwilt
Offical Teams Round 10 - Here!!!
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saintsRrising
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saintsRrising
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SaintsRising, you amaze me!
"That is how the team should have been picked for the Lions game".
Armitage and Ferguson in and Fiora and Leigh Fisher out.
Can I remind you we had our pants very well and truly pulled down, comprehensively so - and it was only 8 goals in the last quarter that got the margin back to somewhere near a 10 goal defeat - by a team which had won 4 and lost 4, the same as us.
If you think that Armitage and Ferguson are such super stars, over and above Fiora and Leigh Fisher and that this team should have been the team picked to play Brisbane (to be fair, you do not say that these changes would have seen us win in Brisbane or get closer, but your satisfaction implies this conclusion), well you comment on your own knowledge of matters football.
Armitage is developing and shows ability (but needs to add a couple of dimensions yet) and Ferguson for Leigh Fisher is a line ball decision, at best.
This side is on a par with the side that was chosen last week, a side which was thrashed.
And that IS disappointing.
Because the options to improve are not available.
"That is how the team should have been picked for the Lions game".
Armitage and Ferguson in and Fiora and Leigh Fisher out.
Can I remind you we had our pants very well and truly pulled down, comprehensively so - and it was only 8 goals in the last quarter that got the margin back to somewhere near a 10 goal defeat - by a team which had won 4 and lost 4, the same as us.
If you think that Armitage and Ferguson are such super stars, over and above Fiora and Leigh Fisher and that this team should have been the team picked to play Brisbane (to be fair, you do not say that these changes would have seen us win in Brisbane or get closer, but your satisfaction implies this conclusion), well you comment on your own knowledge of matters football.
Armitage is developing and shows ability (but needs to add a couple of dimensions yet) and Ferguson for Leigh Fisher is a line ball decision, at best.
This side is on a par with the side that was chosen last week, a side which was thrashed.
And that IS disappointing.
Because the options to improve are not available.
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saintspremiers
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you seriously think Lyon would drop Schneider?saintsRrising wrote:I think by any measure that L fisher and Fiora were our worst 2 players...
The next band up was Schnieder and Gram who while still not good were better than the first two players.
Another bad game by Schneider may see Mini given a go in his spot.
Not in a million years.
Schneider is a cat who has only used up about 3 lives so far....
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remboy
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Go Fergs! I, along with many, think this guy deserves a chance. Reminds me of a taller version of Brett Voss (or for those of my vintage - Dacid Grant).
Most of the time he's played in the past he's been forced to play a key position against taller, stronger opponents. Hopefully this time he'll make the most of the opportunity (it may be the last he gets).
I'd also hope Armitage gets an extended run this time around. Kids like him are the future of the club.
Most of the time he's played in the past he's been forced to play a key position against taller, stronger opponents. Hopefully this time he'll make the most of the opportunity (it may be the last he gets).
I'd also hope Armitage gets an extended run this time around. Kids like him are the future of the club.
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saintsRrising
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Talking of being amazed.......I am quite amazed by your post TTT.To the top wrote:SaintsRising, you amaze me!
Can I remind you we had our pants very well and truly pulled down, comprehensively so - and it was only 8 goals in the last quarter that got the margin back to somewhere near a 10 goal defeat - by a team which had won 4 and lost 4, the same as us.
If you think that Armitage and Ferguson are such super stars, over and above Fiora and Leigh Fisher and that this team should have been the team picked to play Brisbane (to be fair, you do not say that these changes would have seen us win in Brisbane or get closer, but your satisfaction implies this conclusion), well you comment on your own knowledge of matters football.
.
From the one line that I wrote; "That is about how the team should have been selected for the Lions game." you have drawn so many many wrong conclusions.
Where oh where did I say or even imply that Armitage or Ferguson were superstars?????????????
No I did not.
For one who regards himself as superior you have demonstrated amazingly inferior powers of deduction and analysis of what I actually wrote.......combined with great imagination to dream up statements that I never made or even implied!!!!
Where did I say that they would have made a big enough difference to have won??? I did not.
What I said is that this is how the team should have lined up last week!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last week by the way...it was not so much WHO was in the 22 that made the difference....it was that the majority of the 22 showed poor effort and application....and my dear ToT that is not rectified by just shuffling who is in the 22....it can help...but it is not the root cause.
Lyon needs to look his players in the eyes and in their hearts and inspire and engage them to greater efforts.
If he cannot do this it does not matter who on the list he brings in or swaps.
Last edited by saintsRrising on Fri 30 May 2008 10:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
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It was not who was in the 22 last week it was the poor endeavour and application, or words to that effect.
So we excuse the 22 from last week because everyone (except for 2 or 3) showed poor endeavour and poor application?
On top of offering that "we should have picked this team last week" - why and, I repeat, why if not for an improved result? - you now offer that L. Fisher and Fiora were the worst of the 22, all of whom showed poor application and endeavour (by your description).
To add Armitage (played less than 10 games to date?) and Ferguson (played 10 games in about 5 years on the list) is not the panacea for an improved team.
IF you offer an excuse for last weeks result, an excuse which absolves the 20 players retained from responsibility for that team performance, why then pick on L. Fisher and Fiora - and will Armitage and Ferguson inspire a better effort from the other 20 this week?
Would Armitage and Ferguson have so inspired the side last week that they would have carried the other 20 to a more inspired effort, from the insipid effort delivered?
The answer is NO.
We are playing at the very margins of the bottom edge by making the changes we have this week - and that is THE problem.
What we are saying is that they could not play that insipidly again.
The real problem is that they have, and 20 of the 22 retained their positions and people are satisfied with that - and the adding of 2 ten game players, one who has taken 2 years to get there and the other five.
Given our performances, over the history of the Club, how many more insipid performances and insipid excuses are we to swallow before reality sets in?
There are NO excuses for last week.
IF playing against a side also 4 and 4, after losing to a side one win behind us the previous week (and them jumping in front of us as a result) is not incentive enough, then exactly what incentive is the requirement to get these players to appear interested and appear as if they are trying (with apologies to Harvey, Hayes, Ball and Koschitzke)?
Exactly when are we going to address the pretenders, those who rest on their laurels for the remainder of the season having jagged a few goals in one game, or putting in one reasonable game?
When are we going to put a football team on the park?
The days of looking thru prisms of favourite footballers are gone - but we seem to persist.
You can rave over your "Fergs" and your "Mini's" but they are not going to deliver for St Kilda.
Look at their playing record - and it is not that they are big guys who take time to make their presence felt - they are the type where you fit straight in - or you are just not good enough.
They are the ones who should be turned, and turned and turned until we get someone who, in their first game and their first season puts up their hand and says "I am part of the football team, and we are going places".
We accept the mediocre - and that is not good enough.
So the team we have on the park this week is NOT the team we should have chosen last week, because "Fergs" gets a game this week.
Wrong mentality, and the concern is that it is not just the supporters with the wrong mentality.
And what does the Board say?
So we excuse the 22 from last week because everyone (except for 2 or 3) showed poor endeavour and poor application?
On top of offering that "we should have picked this team last week" - why and, I repeat, why if not for an improved result? - you now offer that L. Fisher and Fiora were the worst of the 22, all of whom showed poor application and endeavour (by your description).
To add Armitage (played less than 10 games to date?) and Ferguson (played 10 games in about 5 years on the list) is not the panacea for an improved team.
IF you offer an excuse for last weeks result, an excuse which absolves the 20 players retained from responsibility for that team performance, why then pick on L. Fisher and Fiora - and will Armitage and Ferguson inspire a better effort from the other 20 this week?
Would Armitage and Ferguson have so inspired the side last week that they would have carried the other 20 to a more inspired effort, from the insipid effort delivered?
The answer is NO.
We are playing at the very margins of the bottom edge by making the changes we have this week - and that is THE problem.
What we are saying is that they could not play that insipidly again.
The real problem is that they have, and 20 of the 22 retained their positions and people are satisfied with that - and the adding of 2 ten game players, one who has taken 2 years to get there and the other five.
Given our performances, over the history of the Club, how many more insipid performances and insipid excuses are we to swallow before reality sets in?
There are NO excuses for last week.
IF playing against a side also 4 and 4, after losing to a side one win behind us the previous week (and them jumping in front of us as a result) is not incentive enough, then exactly what incentive is the requirement to get these players to appear interested and appear as if they are trying (with apologies to Harvey, Hayes, Ball and Koschitzke)?
Exactly when are we going to address the pretenders, those who rest on their laurels for the remainder of the season having jagged a few goals in one game, or putting in one reasonable game?
When are we going to put a football team on the park?
The days of looking thru prisms of favourite footballers are gone - but we seem to persist.
You can rave over your "Fergs" and your "Mini's" but they are not going to deliver for St Kilda.
Look at their playing record - and it is not that they are big guys who take time to make their presence felt - they are the type where you fit straight in - or you are just not good enough.
They are the ones who should be turned, and turned and turned until we get someone who, in their first game and their first season puts up their hand and says "I am part of the football team, and we are going places".
We accept the mediocre - and that is not good enough.
So the team we have on the park this week is NOT the team we should have chosen last week, because "Fergs" gets a game this week.
Wrong mentality, and the concern is that it is not just the supporters with the wrong mentality.
And what does the Board say?
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Teflon
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Not quite sure what your attempting to say TTT...
I mean who said mini or Ferg or Armo are the answer to our current problems ?????
And ofcourse 20 players dont get "let off the hook" for last week - have you got another 20 somewhere you can use to replace?
I agree we are playing at the margins.....sad reality is cause thats ALL weve got left......and that hasnt just happened in the last year....thats a list that has not had rejuvination from youth for the past 3-4 years and we are now paying for it.
Its all well and good to recruit Mcgoughs, Acklands, Penny's, and get as many games out of Powells,Pecketts Thompsons etc as you can(and rightly so we were shooting for a flag) BUT IF you dont get that flag theres a penalty.......LACK OF DECENT YOUTH - apart from Armo, Geary and McEvoy IMHO we aint got that depth coming through THATS our penalty.
I mean who said mini or Ferg or Armo are the answer to our current problems ?????
And ofcourse 20 players dont get "let off the hook" for last week - have you got another 20 somewhere you can use to replace?
I agree we are playing at the margins.....sad reality is cause thats ALL weve got left......and that hasnt just happened in the last year....thats a list that has not had rejuvination from youth for the past 3-4 years and we are now paying for it.
Its all well and good to recruit Mcgoughs, Acklands, Penny's, and get as many games out of Powells,Pecketts Thompsons etc as you can(and rightly so we were shooting for a flag) BUT IF you dont get that flag theres a penalty.......LACK OF DECENT YOUTH - apart from Armo, Geary and McEvoy IMHO we aint got that depth coming through THATS our penalty.
“Yeah….nah””
Well i have to dissagree with most of your post, Schneider was very good in the NAB cub, Yes he has been VERY disappointing the last 3 weeks since coming back from injury it was players like him and gram that Lyon was referring too in his attack. So now we should sit back and see how they respond.BigMart wrote:Schneider has don FA.....and does not deserve his spot.....nice to have a relationship with the coach....he has kicked few goals, has been smashed by his opponents the other way, and generates nothing..
McQualter is unlucky as a small fwd....has kicked more than 10 goals at Casey, puts on good tackling pressure, and locks the ball in.....I now see Mini as a neat small fwd, with good pressuring skills...
Clint Jones and Blake's skills will kill us....they are both deplorable decision makers, and woeful by foot....
And as far a CJ goes, last week 20 touches and and only 1 clanger. And his %effectiveness was 70% equal with Dal Santo (who had 3 clangers) and ahead of Gram, Montagna, Birss, Ball and some others
So before you say his skills will kill us then we should drop gram, montagna, birss and ball as was cleaner than them last week.
Many people on here have pre-conceived ideas about certain players, and never give them a chance. I used to think CJ had bad skills but I have recognized this year that he isgetting better each week and his intensity can never be questioned so he could develop into a very good player.
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supersaints
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We should have taken the free steak knives...................Saint Bev wrote:Charlie Gardiner came with King, so he didn't cost us anything.StSteven wrote:Charlie Gardiner.......why not. Did we waste a draft pick?
Hope Armitage and Ferguson get in.
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Go Sainters !!!!!
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Go Sainters !!!!!
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Teflon, you are correct.
I have no brief with Armitage being re-included.
But I do with the likes of Ferguson, McQualter and Gwilt being in the 25.
By including these players, we are going down the same course.
We need to be looking at the likes of Howard, Steven and McEvoy.
These players are on the list for 2 years. Do they go the same way as Raymond and Pfitzner and McDonnel?
IF Ferguson and McQualter had been de-listed by other clubs, would we have then drafted them?
And we pick them the week after it is acknowledged that our performance was not up to scratch, and where one contributor excuses that they were all bad (with apologies to Hayes, Ball Harvey and Koschitzke).
There is no sense (correctly) bemoaning that we have not embraced youth when we continue not to.
In fairness to these kids, they should be graduated to AFL football, first one to see if he can establish, then the next and then the next.
What do we do?
We go back to Ferguson and McQualter and Gwilt!
I have no brief with Armitage being re-included.
But I do with the likes of Ferguson, McQualter and Gwilt being in the 25.
By including these players, we are going down the same course.
We need to be looking at the likes of Howard, Steven and McEvoy.
These players are on the list for 2 years. Do they go the same way as Raymond and Pfitzner and McDonnel?
IF Ferguson and McQualter had been de-listed by other clubs, would we have then drafted them?
And we pick them the week after it is acknowledged that our performance was not up to scratch, and where one contributor excuses that they were all bad (with apologies to Hayes, Ball Harvey and Koschitzke).
There is no sense (correctly) bemoaning that we have not embraced youth when we continue not to.
In fairness to these kids, they should be graduated to AFL football, first one to see if he can establish, then the next and then the next.
What do we do?
We go back to Ferguson and McQualter and Gwilt!
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bobmurray
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Ross obviously doesn't want to gamble too much with the new and untried soTo the top wrote:
There is no sense (correctly) bemoaning that we have not embraced youth when we continue not to.
goes with the old and unproven,he'd rather be comfortable than daring...
Saints looking like a bottom 4 team in 2024.
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Teflon
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I think Ferguson deserves a game.
Im no Mqualter fan - I dont believe he has the attributes to make it at this level - but his form in the two's warrants a game.
I havent heard of Howard cutting it up in the twos and sweeney is still too young for mine.
Im not sure Lyon has an array of choices to be honest....
Weve got some serious youth drafting to do thats for sure.
Im no Mqualter fan - I dont believe he has the attributes to make it at this level - but his form in the two's warrants a game.
I havent heard of Howard cutting it up in the twos and sweeney is still too young for mine.
Im not sure Lyon has an array of choices to be honest....
Weve got some serious youth drafting to do thats for sure.
“Yeah….nah””
Matchups
ST KILDA
MELBOURNE
ST KILDA
MELBOURNE
- B: Jason Gram, Jason Blake, Jarryn Geary
F: Simon Buckley, Brad Miller, Austin Wonaeamirri
St Kilda Spare Man: Sam Fisher
HB: Sean Dempster, Max Hudghton, Brendon Goddard
HF: Brad Green, Russell Robertson, Brent Moloney
C: Nick Dal Santo, Lenny Hayes, Robert Harvey
C: Clint Bartram, Brock McLean, Matthew Bate
HF: Adam Schneider, Nick Riewoldt, Shane Birss
HB: Colin Sylvia, Colin Garland, Cameron Bruce
Melbourne Spare Man: Paul Wheatley
F: Justin Koschitzke, Stephen Milne
B: Matthew Warnock, Daniel Bell
Foll: Steven King, Leigh Montagna, Luke Ball
Foll: Jeff White, James McDonald, Nathan Jones
Int: Michael Gardiner, Matthew Ferguson, Clint Jones, David Armitage
Int: Paul Johnson Lynden Dunn, James Frawley, Adem Yze
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JeffDunne
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