Analysis of this Decision - Between rock & a hard place

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

i think the underlying issue here is that most followers of football know that didak and shaw are not the difference between them and a flag although they are top shelf players

the romanticism with us and cousins is that he could have been seen within the wider football community as the player to take us to the holy grail...

messiah complex once more...when will this club shake it???

poor roo...and to a lesser extend bj...they are next

[saint75]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

Collingwood were not going to achieve a flag this year. Blind Freddy could have seen that so that argument doesn't wash.

As for your comments 'just because it cost us a flag', how many flags have we lost over the years due to poor decisions originating at board level? Have a really long hard think about that one. Having read some of the posts, a few of you will say none because the boards at St Kilda (past and present) can do no wrong obviously.

Of course, how dare I suggest they have made bad decisions! How arrogant of me! What would I know? Well, on my last jaunt down to Moorabbin (not too long ago) I had a look at the cabinet in the entrance and the lack of silverware contained in said cabinet. Do you need anymore evidence?

[saint75]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

i think the underlying issue here is that most followers of football know that didak and shaw are not the difference between them and a flag although they are top shelf players

the romanticism with us and cousins is that he could have been seen within the wider football community as the player to take us to the holy grail...

messiah complex once more...when will this club shake it???

poor roo...and to a lesser extend bj...they are next

Ben Cousins alone would not have won us a flag, his inclusion in our midfield and the addition of his skills and talent would have helped significantly to bridge the gap between us and Geelong and Hawthorn. Granted, this was a gamble, but one well worth it. Had it failed, he would have been packed up and shipped off never to be seen again. His currency was low and so the cost would have been minimal. Surely even the BC haters could have seen the potential?

Do you remember back to the draft with Buddy Franklin? No one wanted to pick him up due to his rumoured 'off field' antics. Hawthorn took the punt (and it was a big gamble) and it has paid dividends.

I still live in hope that this is a bluff and they will draft him on Saturday. Then and only then will I apologise for any comments made in reference to this current board and will happily start a thread devoted to it.

[Iceman234]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

Collingwood were not going to achieve a flag this year. Blind Freddy could have seen that so that argument doesn't wash.

As for your comments 'just because it cost us a flag', how many flags have we lost over the years due to poor decisions originating at board level? Have a really long hard think about that one. Having read some of the posts, a few of you will say none because the boards at St Kilda (past and present) can do no wrong obviously.

Of course, how dare I suggest they have made bad decisions! How arrogant of me! What would I know? Well, on my last jaunt down to Moorabbin (not too long ago) I had a look at the cabinet in the entrance and the lack of silverware contained in said cabinet. Do you need anymore evidence?

The board has spoken.

Ben will not be and never was, a Saint.

Move on, he's gone...no, he was never here.

Gonna hand in your membership because of a wayward Eagle that was never our problem?

[Iceman234]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

i think the underlying issue here is that most followers of football know that didak and shaw are not the difference between them and a flag although they are top shelf players

the romanticism with us and cousins is that he could have been seen within the wider football community as the player to take us to the holy grail...

messiah complex once more...when will this club shake it???

poor roo...and to a lesser extend bj...they are next

Ben Cousins alone would not have won us a flag, his inclusion in our midfield and the addition of his skills and talent would have helped significantly to bridge the gap between us and Geelong and Hawthorn. Granted, this was a gamble, but one well worth it. Had it failed, he would have been packed up and shipped off never to be seen again. His currency was low and so the cost would have been minimal. Surely even the BC haters could have seen the potential?

Do you remember back to the draft with Buddy Franklin? No one wanted to pick him up due to his rumoured 'off field' antics. Hawthorn took the punt (and it was a big gamble) and it has paid dividends.

I still live in hope that this is a bluff and they will draft him on Saturday. Then and only then will I apologise for any comments made in reference to this current board and will happily start a thread devoted to it.

Buddy was what, 17?

BC is 30, been through the wringer, been subjected to a FIVE MONTH assessment by our board.

Get over it.

[saint75]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

Collingwood were not going to achieve a flag this year. Blind Freddy could have seen that so that argument doesn't wash.

As for your comments 'just because it cost us a flag', how many flags have we lost over the years due to poor decisions originating at board level? Have a really long hard think about that one. Having read some of the posts, a few of you will say none because the boards at St Kilda (past and present) can do no wrong obviously.

Of course, how dare I suggest they have made bad decisions! How arrogant of me! What would I know? Well, on my last jaunt down to Moorabbin (not too long ago) I had a look at the cabinet in the entrance and the lack of silverware contained in said cabinet. Do you need anymore evidence?

The board has spoken.

Ben will not be and never was, a Saint.

Move on, he's gone...no, he was never here.

Gonna hand in your membership because of a wayward Eagle that was never our problem?

Hmmm, so it's OK to want to burn your membership over a $125 increase to those with Level 2 seats, but it's not OK to to angry and not want to renew your membership over a decision that may have ramifications for our season for 2009? Find some members comments over the last couple of days surprising to say the least.

In regards to membership, ask me that one tomorrow. At the moment, they can shove their reserved seat and membership where the sun doesn't shine. May change tomorrow, will see what happens once I calm down.

[saint75]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

i think the underlying issue here is that most followers of football know that didak and shaw are not the difference between them and a flag although they are top shelf players

the romanticism with us and cousins is that he could have been seen within the wider football community as the player to take us to the holy grail...

messiah complex once more...when will this club shake it???

poor roo...and to a lesser extend bj...they are next

Ben Cousins alone would not have won us a flag, his inclusion in our midfield and the addition of his skills and talent would have helped significantly to bridge the gap between us and Geelong and Hawthorn. Granted, this was a gamble, but one well worth it. Had it failed, he would have been packed up and shipped off never to be seen again. His currency was low and so the cost would have been minimal. Surely even the BC haters could have seen the potential?

Do you remember back to the draft with Buddy Franklin? No one wanted to pick him up due to his rumoured 'off field' antics. Hawthorn took the punt (and it was a big gamble) and it has paid dividends.

I still live in hope that this is a bluff and they will draft him on Saturday. Then and only then will I apologise for any comments made in reference to this current board and will happily start a thread devoted to it.

Buddy was what, 17?

BC is 30, been through the wringer, been subjected to a FIVE MONTH assessment by our board.

Get over it.

Yes sir *salutes*

Just because the decision suits you, it DOESN'T suit others.

As for the 5 months assessment that I keep hear being thrown around, it is funny that he had the green light up until a few days ago. Such a thorough assessment that was positive until the board got a sudden case of 'cold feet'...........

[WayneJudson42]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

Collingwood were not going to achieve a flag this year. Blind Freddy could have seen that so that argument doesn't wash.

As for your comments 'just because it cost us a flag', how many flags have we lost over the years due to poor decisions originating at board level? Have a really long hard think about that one. Having read some of the posts, a few of you will say none because the boards at St Kilda (past and present) can do no wrong obviously.

Of course, how dare I suggest they have made bad decisions! How arrogant of me! What would I know? Well, on my last jaunt down to Moorabbin (not too long ago) I had a look at the lack of silver ware in the cabinet at Moorabbin. Do you need anymore evidence?

Settle down.

You're entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.

To say that BC is the difference for a flag is also far fetched.

Never stated that Collingwood would win a flag this year. Read it properly. I said what if they did not suspend them in order to chase a flag?

Big difference. It's a moral argument. We threw scorn on them when this happened, yet maybe, just maybe, the board made a call based on principles other than winning a flag.

It appears that no one has taken that into consideration. Maybe, they took a stand? And saw BC as a potentially disruptive element?

The reason our trophy cabinet is empty is due to previous boards' decisions. This is correct.

Decisions such as sacking coaches every 10 minutes, and allowing players to become bigger than the club have been all too common in our recent history.

It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. IMO.

At the moment, the only logic I see from supporters is:

No BC = No flag.

I wanted him, and believe he could have an impact. But you would hope that after 5 months, the board had a good reason to cut him.

If it were so black and white as so many are espousing then, he would have the green light.

I see arguments about sponsers... sh1t we need the cash. We still need to play at GC for the extra revenue.

Does anyone stop to consider if we recruit him, and we lose a sponsor, the impact that has? Bottom line, we won't have a club to support in a few years time.

What if he turned out like MG and only played 6 games? And we lost a sponsor?

Has that scenario occured to people?

The board has a duty to not only deliver a flag, but to ensure the long term viability and survival of the club.

If getting BC would jepoardise sponsorship, then the cost would be too great, and we made the right call.

If getting BC would mean trouble because he hasn't mended his ways, then we made the right call.

If we rejected the idea because we didn't think he'd improve our team, then it was the wrong call.

Logic says that if he is clean and there were no sponsorsip issues, then I can't see why they didn't recruit him.

[WayneJudson42]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

Collingwood were not going to achieve a flag this year. Blind Freddy could have seen that so that argument doesn't wash.

As for your comments 'just because it cost us a flag', how many flags have we lost over the years due to poor decisions originating at board level? Have a really long hard think about that one. Having read some of the posts, a few of you will say none because the boards at St Kilda (past and present) can do no wrong obviously.

Of course, how dare I suggest they have made bad decisions! How arrogant of me! What would I know? Well, on my last jaunt down to Moorabbin (not too long ago) I had a look at the cabinet in the entrance and the lack of silverware contained in said cabinet. Do you need anymore evidence?

The board has spoken.

Ben will not be and never was, a Saint.

Move on, he's gone...no, he was never here.

Gonna hand in your membership because of a wayward Eagle that was never our problem?

For the record, Iceman and I have argued strongly on the recruitment of BC in opposing corners.

I don't think it's about whether or not we should recruit him, it's about the factless arguments and reactions being put forward, which everyone is entitled to do.

[Iceman234]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

i think the underlying issue here is that most followers of football know that didak and shaw are not the difference between them and a flag although they are top shelf players

the romanticism with us and cousins is that he could have been seen within the wider football community as the player to take us to the holy grail...

messiah complex once more...when will this club shake it???

poor roo...and to a lesser extend bj...they are next

Ben Cousins alone would not have won us a flag, his inclusion in our midfield and the addition of his skills and talent would have helped significantly to bridge the gap between us and Geelong and Hawthorn. Granted, this was a gamble, but one well worth it. Had it failed, he would have been packed up and shipped off never to be seen again. His currency was low and so the cost would have been minimal. Surely even the BC haters could have seen the potential?

Do you remember back to the draft with Buddy Franklin? No one wanted to pick him up due to his rumoured 'off field' antics. Hawthorn took the punt (and it was a big gamble) and it has paid dividends.

I still live in hope that this is a bluff and they will draft him on Saturday. Then and only then will I apologise for any comments made in reference to this current board and will happily start a thread devoted to it.

Buddy was what, 17?

BC is 30, been through the wringer, been subjected to a FIVE MONTH assessment by our board.

Get over it.

Yes sir *salutes*

Just because the decision suits you, it DOESN'T suit others.

As for the 5 months assessment that I keep hear being thrown around, it is funny that he had the green light up until a few days ago. Such a thorough assessment that was positive until the board got a sudden case of 'cold feet'...........

LOL just because the decisions doesn't suit YOU, doesn't mean it doesn't suit a lot others. But thanks for speaking of behalf of us all.....

FFS give it up and get back to debating whether you are gonna renew your membership over a. BC or b. the L2 issue.

[saint66au]

Hmmm..scanning through the morning papers and cant read anywhere about how we are the laughing stock of the AFL for not drafting him.

Maybe I'm not looking hard enough

[Mr Magic]

Imagine the outrage if the pies did not suspend Didak and Shaw in their pursuit of a flag.

Yet we get all high and mighty coz we decided aginst a "bad" egg?

Because it will cost us a flag?

Collingwood were not going to achieve a flag this year. Blind Freddy could have seen that so that argument doesn't wash.

As for your comments 'just because it cost us a flag', how many flags have we lost over the years due to poor decisions originating at board level? Have a really long hard think about that one. Having read some of the posts, a few of you will say none because the boards at St Kilda (past and present) can do no wrong obviously.

Of course, how dare I suggest they have made bad decisions! How arrogant of me! What would I know? Well, on my last jaunt down to Moorabbin (not too long ago) I had a look at the cabinet in the entrance and the lack of silverware contained in said cabinet. Do you need anymore evidence?

You still don't get it do you?
Nobody is suggesting you don't have the right to your opinion.
It would be nice if your opinion was based on factual evidence rather than raw emotion, but hey, that's your decision entirely.

The 'arrogance' i referred to was your depiction of the Board based on their decision - a decision based on all the facts presented to them by everyone involved in the case - for and against.

Yet you , who most probably know nothing about what was presented to them, KNOW THAT THEIR DECISION WAS WRONG!

Please enlighten us all with the facts.
I'm sure the rest of us would like to know what you know so that we too can castigate the Board for coming to the wrong decision.

Hopefully you will have woken up this morning with a 'cleared head' and be able to view your tirade against tha Board last night as just emotional rantings.

And for yours and others information, there are 3 former players on the Board who made the decision

Thompson
Burke
Nettlefold

I also recall seeing reported yesterday that there were only 5 Board Members at the meeting yesterday - the 3 above plus Westaway and Grant (I have no way of knowing if that reporting is accurate or not?).

If that report is correct then it would appear that the 'football members' of the Board who made the decision were in the majority.

[saint66au]

Is anyone else having trouble opening page 19 of the "official" BC thread?

[Mr Magic]

Is anyone else having trouble opening page 19 of the "official" BC thread?

Yep.

[brown-coat]

Yep.

Well, no Cousins hey. Down we go. Our midfield is just not up to par. Cousins could have given us an edge assuming a million things.

Well hopefully we drafted at least 5 more fringe players to complement our underachieving 'superstars' (Riewoldt excepted)

[St DAC]

The point of having a Board of Management is to make decisions on behalf of the members. They've done so, and surely the level of due diligence can't be questioned. That being the case it's all done and dusted.

My own view was he was worth a chance based on his quality as a player, but I'm not appraised of all the available facts, unlike the Board. Their decision sits comfortably enough with me.

15 clubs have said no to BC, so it would seem there are reasons not made public for not wanting him. If he ends up at BrisVegas I wish him all the best and hope he makes the most of his second chance.

[Legendary]

Ok so the actual reasons for the decisions are as follows:

• Jeld-Wen had serious reservations and concerns about Cousins being drafted; in the current economic climate their sponsorship is extremely valuable
• Ross Lyon had serious misgivings about Cousins, his football ability and the impact he would have on the other players
• Cousins failed to submit a hair test to the AFL, and this raised some doubts in the minds of some board members
• Cousins had been hiding behind his manager and not speaking out himself, and this also raised some doubts in the minds of some board members
• Cousins was still associating with several people considered unsavoury by the club
• The club is serious about drafting young players and does not see a place for a 30-year old on the list

[SainterK]

http://www.pierucci.com/

Check out the Spring 08 collection, I am sure that based on everyone's "branding" theory that Pierucci must have had a decline in suit sales?

Non-saints supporters would have tuned into a low audience game just because Ben Cousins would be pulling on the jumper. The amount of brand exposure would increase beyond belief....

This couldn't of been about Jeldwen, and if it was....well

[rodgerfox]

the romanticism with us and cousins is that he could have been seen within the wider football community as the player to take us to the holy grail...

messiah complex once more...when will this club shake it???

I haven't seen anyone make a comment like that at all.

I've seen many suggesting he's assist our midfield and help other players. Not one comment along the lines of him being someone who will guide us to a flag.

Over at Carlton on the other hand, we hear it every week. At Collingwood ditto.

I'm not sure why for some reason the concept of a 'messiah complex' has attached itself to us, and not other clubs who clearly demonstrate it far more than we ever have.

[matrix]

ok im posting in here as i cant (for the life of me) get page 19 to open in the huuuuuge BC thread.

im disappointed that he isnt clean....
not that we didnt draft him.

shaving his body?...wtf was he thinking? (well thats kinda obvious...and stupid)
did he NOT want to get picked???
now its plainly obvious to EVERYONE that the chances of him being unclean are twice as much as being clean.
i mean if it cant get it out of his system and he has stopped using then he needs to be honest, and say so.
instead he waxes up

the decision made by St Kilda was obviously the right call
disappointing to me ...yes
wrong?....no.

and whats all this tosh about tearing up memberships in other threads?.
yes u have been a member for longer than i have been on this earth and seen more hardship than most members on here......but not re-newing??
have a cuppa and think about it.....

im off to make lasange

[kaos theory]

Ok so the actual reasons for the decisions are as follows:

Jeld-Wen had serious reservations and concerns about Cousins being drafted; in the current economic climate their sponsorship is extremely valuable

Ross Lyon had serious misgivings about Cousins, his football ability and the impact he would have on the other players

Cousins failed to submit a hair test to the AFL, and this raised some doubts in the minds of some board members

Cousins had been hiding behind his manager and not speaking out himself, and this also raised some doubts in the minds of some board members

Cousins was still associating with several people considered unsavoury by the club

The club is serious about drafting young players and does not see a place for a 30-year old on the list

Good points. Also cousins didn't chose not to play at all when he could have to show he is fully over any potential hamsting issues...

A key thing to think about here is that did cousins do ALL he could have done to really show that he is keen & ready to come back to afl, and that he is over his past behaviours?

[saintly_safes]

As much as I would have loved Ben at the saints & maybe( just maybe) he could have given us that edge to push us to a level where we could make a real dip at pulling ofF the big one. It will be a real test for the group to see if they can rise above the potential tag & actually put the score on the board as real contenders & match the top 2 or 3 teams when it really counts.Lets hope so"go sainters"