Richter wrote:rodgerfox wrote:Name one young recruit that has flourished under Lyon's tutelage?
What's to suggest that any of our youngsters will come good?
What are we basing that thinking on?
Hope?
Improved under RL
Attard
Eddy
Sam Fisher
Sam Gilbert
Goddard
Clint Jones
Gone backwards
X Clarke
Similar level of performance to prior to RL
Luke Ball
Raph Clarke
Charlie Gardiner
Ferg
Sean Dempster
Gram
Gwilt
Howard
Armitage
Allen
McQualter
Schneider
I don't agree with much of this. IMO Lyon's biggest success story in terms of player development has been his decision to use Blake as a CHB, the result being that we have seen him play his best football ever in the second half of 2008.
I reckon that Raph, McQualter and Gwilt and, towards the end of the 2008 season, Armitage and Allen, were all showing signs of improvement as the direct result of the way Lyon was trying to use them. And I also think he has used Riewoldt a bit better and I'd probably agree with you about goddard as well.
I don't think Eddy and Jones have improved significantly in their play since we first saw them (ie, they weren't much good then, and still aren't much good), although both seem to have a bit more confidence. It's a bit of a giggle for you to put Attard on this list: we could say that he has improved out of sight (literally).
Gilbert improved a great deal during 2007 and then deteriorated significantly in 2008: I think the issues here are injuries and confidence, and not much to do with Lyon's coaching.
X had a great 2007, and was injured for much of 2008. It isn't fair to hold Lyon responsible for this, any more than you would for the relatively poor contributions from Maguire and M Gardiner.
But I do believe that several players have deteriorated markedly under Lyon and/or haven't been used by him in the most suitable ways
Leigh Fisher (used in the wrong positions, and then dropped)
Gram (probably mainly a problem with the player rather than the coach)
Schneider (a poor season in 2008 IMO)
Kosi (injuries are a problem, but I think it took Lyon a while to work out how to use him)
Sam Fisher (often matched up on less suitable opponents IMO, as has been Gilbert in 2008)
Baker (while he was still fit/not suspended during 2007, I thought Lyon didn't make full use of his ability to use the ball as well as operate as a tagger)
Ball - has played pretty well when fit, but Lyon hasn't done any better than GT in finding a way of keeping him from getting smashed by opponents and carried off the field
And, to go back to rodgerfox's original point, we can't yet point to a potential young star player whom Lyon has developed in any way (Armitage has not really come on yet, Jones isn't young, and Eddy does not look to me like a potential star player: although I hope I'm wrong about this).
But it's too early to say whether this is in any way a result of Lyon's approach to player development: young players develop at different speeds and/or struggle with injuries (eg, Allen). However, I think it would be reasonable for us to expect to see Armitage develop into a genuine AFL player in 2009 and for at least one more of the class of 2008 (McEvoy, Steven, Connors plus Geary) to join Eddy as at least an occasional first team player.
I'd be interested to see what others think.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift