Issues going forward

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Scollop
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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005949Post Scollop »

takeaway wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:48pm
Scollop wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:17pm The long bombs into the forward line were happening from the get go. Wood did it. Ross did it. Crouch did it and even Sincs did it

I find it amazing that people think it’s just the defenders fault which cost us the game. They made a few errors, but they weren’t the only reason we lost. I think our mids were ineffective and they couldn’t work enough as a team to run and gun and try and create some clean entries inside 50.

Port had a really good 2nd quarter, but we fought back. I thought we played the better footy and the ball lived in our forward half in the 3rd. We had our chances but inside 50 work was sloppy. Wasted too many entries with wayward kicks.

Then when we found targets in the pockets near the boundary late in the 3rd, Higgins just had absolutely no thought of sharing the footy.

Steele got us going with that first goal in the last quarter and Gresh got us the lead

We controlled the footy in the first ten minutes of the last quarter. We were the dominant team.

We had the momentum and we had about 5-6 entries inside 50 after the Gresh goal. ALL were again wasted.

Port only had about 4 entries for 2 goals while we had about 12 inside 50’s for 3 goals. Clark was showing the rest of our midfield what class looks like.

After Hunter’s goal, Rowan actually got a ruck tap to the advantage of our mids. The ball landed in Brad Couch’s lap and Brad get’s the stat that says ‘clearance’ and ‘contested possession’. Unfortunately it went straight to a Port player at Centre Half Back (just like most of his possessions on the day). There’s about 8 minutes to go.

What really annoys me isn’t when Crouch is under pressure in congestion and he turns it over, but it’s when he blasts away and wastes inside 50’s instead of looking for a team mate. After a goal to Finlayson and a goal to Charlie Dixon, it put them 8 points up. Ball goes to the middle and again we win a centre clearance. Theres under 6 minutes to go at this stage

Marshall gets a clear tap to Sinclair who handballs to Steele who gets it to Crouch. Boak is on his hammer so Crouch kicks to the flank. There’s no clean possession until again Sinclair and Steel combine and Crouch is the beneficiary. Instead of Brad using his captain who is free on the wing near the boundary he bombs it into the half forward flank (for a pathetic shallow entry) and we wasted another inside 50.

Allir marks about 45 out from our goal and then Port start controlling the footy and looking for the loose man. Port are still 8 points up and basically they win most of the 50/50 ball. They were more desperate and they won the ground ball contests.

Instead of the mids running and gunning which only happened once when Hunter Clark ran clear and demanded the footy, most of the time they kicked a tired long bomb to no one. Hunter was everywhere and even took a nice contested mark. He was brilliant in the last.

We got it inside 50 more than twice as many times as they did in the last quarter I reckon. The last opportunity we had was from Marshall getting a clear tap to advantage. Steele handballs to Sebby who kicks an up and under and it’s marked again by Allir. Port iced it after that with only 1 minute left to ice the game
Thanks for your commentary. I think. You love watching Crouch from the couch with your little notepad don't you? Obviously he is a spud. Definite out for game vs North. Who do you suggest replaces him?
I’d play Crouch next week. Let him go up against last years wooden spooners with their addition of an 18 year old H Sheezle and let’s see how he goes. If he plays like he did against Port and against Carlton, then drop him after that and let him mentor the young lads at Sandrigham for the rest of his contract

As I’ve said before. We recruited Crouch and Higgins at the end of 2020. Both were surplus to our needs
Last edited by Scollop on Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:53pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005950Post B.M »

Crouch is definitely not a spud

But he had a very poor game Friday


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005953Post Teflon »

Scollop wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 2:49am
Teflon wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:57am Our midfields one paced
Why is that an issue?? Did anyone notice at speed we had NO ONE who could go with JHF???
Clarke, Crouch, Steele, Ross…even Bytel are similar pace/style players
We need midfield variety - some run/carry with a bit of toe
Sinclair is closest along with Owens
Sooner these 2 start getting more looks in middle the better
Coffield to take Sincs HBF spot when fit
With the current crop of players you've got guys like Lachie Neale, Tom Liberatore, Taylor Adams who are all ball hunters and also not quick (but watch how fast the footy travels when they handball)

Wines and Butters aren't quick. They just beat our guys to the footy when it counted and their clearances were more effective
All those sides also have outside run in their mids
Port had JHF but thankfully Ross kept an eye on Rozee
We don’t have anyone comparable is the point
We have plenty of extractors


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005957Post Scollop »

Teflon wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:55pm
Scollop wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 2:49am
Teflon wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:57am Our midfields one paced
Why is that an issue?? Did anyone notice at speed we had NO ONE who could go with JHF???
Clarke, Crouch, Steele, Ross…even Bytel are similar pace/style players
We need midfield variety - some run/carry with a bit of toe
Sinclair is closest along with Owens
Sooner these 2 start getting more looks in middle the better
Coffield to take Sincs HBF spot when fit
With the current crop of players you've got guys like Lachie Neale, Tom Liberatore, Taylor Adams who are all ball hunters and also not quick (but watch how fast the footy travels when they handball)

Wines and Butters aren't quick. They just beat our guys to the footy when it counted and their clearances were more effective
All those sides also have outside run in their mids
Port had JHF but thankfully Ross kept an eye on Rozee
We don’t have anyone comparable is the point
We have plenty of extractors
What about Wood and Hill on the wing? Are they not considered outside mids? What about Sinclair?


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005958Post Teflon »

Think the coach said it best
17th? For inside 50 scoring efficiency????
You can’t have that and allow 4 goals from defender mistakes
Fix forward 50 entries - change angles, lower eyes, become unpredictable
It’ll be much much harder for opponents to simply stop us with King Caminiti (Membrey?) Owens IF we are organised and still lowering our eyes …
I agree like last year we got the jump fitness wise
That will come back to the pack


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005961Post Ghost Like »

Reading some of the above I thought we lost by 70 points so had to check the result, yep, was only 7 points. Granted, it hurt because it was at Marvel and was Port, again!

Round 7, two losses to two top 8 teams, each by under 10 points. We will likely finish 3rd on the ladder tonight, possibly 2nd. Players to return over the next month. I know we are sitting a lot better than I expected a week before the season started.

2023 is a year of development and discovery that may well finish better than any of us hoped or imagined.


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005962Post takeaway »

Scollop wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:52pm
takeaway wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:48pm
Scollop wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:17pm The long bombs into the forward line were happening from the get go. Wood did it. Ross did it. Crouch did it and even Sincs did it

I find it amazing that people think it’s just the defenders fault which cost us the game. They made a few errors, but they weren’t the only reason we lost. I think our mids were ineffective and they couldn’t work enough as a team to run and gun and try and create some clean entries inside 50.

Port had a really good 2nd quarter, but we fought back. I thought we played the better footy and the ball lived in our forward half in the 3rd. We had our chances but inside 50 work was sloppy. Wasted too many entries with wayward kicks.

Then when we found targets in the pockets near the boundary late in the 3rd, Higgins just had absolutely no thought of sharing the footy.

Steele got us going with that first goal in the last quarter and Gresh got us the lead

We controlled the footy in the first ten minutes of the last quarter. We were the dominant team.

We had the momentum and we had about 5-6 entries inside 50 after the Gresh goal. ALL were again wasted.

Port only had about 4 entries for 2 goals while we had about 12 inside 50’s for 3 goals. Clark was showing the rest of our midfield what class looks like.

After Hunter’s goal, Rowan actually got a ruck tap to the advantage of our mids. The ball landed in Brad Couch’s lap and Brad get’s the stat that says ‘clearance’ and ‘contested possession’. Unfortunately it went straight to a Port player at Centre Half Back (just like most of his possessions on the day). There’s about 8 minutes to go.

What really annoys me isn’t when Crouch is under pressure in congestion and he turns it over, but it’s when he blasts away and wastes inside 50’s instead of looking for a team mate. After a goal to Finlayson and a goal to Charlie Dixon, it put them 8 points up. Ball goes to the middle and again we win a centre clearance. Theres under 6 minutes to go at this stage

Marshall gets a clear tap to Sinclair who handballs to Steele who gets it to Crouch. Boak is on his hammer so Crouch kicks to the flank. There’s no clean possession until again Sinclair and Steel combine and Crouch is the beneficiary. Instead of Brad using his captain who is free on the wing near the boundary he bombs it into the half forward flank (for a pathetic shallow entry) and we wasted another inside 50.

Allir marks about 45 out from our goal and then Port start controlling the footy and looking for the loose man. Port are still 8 points up and basically they win most of the 50/50 ball. They were more desperate and they won the ground ball contests.

Instead of the mids running and gunning which only happened once when Hunter Clark ran clear and demanded the footy, most of the time they kicked a tired long bomb to no one. Hunter was everywhere and even took a nice contested mark. He was brilliant in the last.

We got it inside 50 more than twice as many times as they did in the last quarter I reckon. The last opportunity we had was from Marshall getting a clear tap to advantage. Steele handballs to Sebby who kicks an up and under and it’s marked again by Allir. Port iced it after that with only 1 minute left to ice the game
Thanks for your commentary. I think. You love watching Crouch from the couch with your little notepad don't you? Obviously he is a spud. Definite out for game vs North. Who do you suggest replaces him?
I’d play Crouch next week. Let him go up against last years wooden spooners with their addition of an 18 year old H Sheezle and let’s see how he goes. If he plays like he did against Port and against Carlton, then drop him after that and let him mentor the young lads at Sandrigham for the rest of his contract

As I’ve said before. We recruited Crouch and Higgins at the end of 2020. Both were surplus to our needs
Surplus to our needs? Higgins currently our best forward and Crouch our 2nd best mid this season? That's a ripper even for a Scolops.


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005964Post Scollop »

Pou got his hands on it plenty of times, but the footy didn’t stick. Membrey was double teamed and usually got blocked. There was at least a couple of clear frees to Membrey that the umpires missed.

I thought it was pretty funny thatDan Butler took a contested mark in the forward line. Pity he and Higgins didn’t crumb a few of those marks that our talls brought to ground. Edit..that’s wrong. Butler did do a good job when he was in the vicinity.

The understanding between mids and forwards isn’t working as well as it did when Caminiti was there.

It could take another 12 months for our team to settle once Max King is back

The synergy and connection takes time. That’s bound to happen when you have so many changes in your forward line
Last edited by Scollop on Sun 30 Apr 2023 1:52pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005965Post Scollop »

takeaway wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 1:13pm
Scollop wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:52pm

As I’ve said before. We recruited Crouch and Higgins at the end of 2020. Both were surplus to our needs
Surplus to our needs? Higgins currently our best forward and Crouch our 2nd best mid this season? That's a ripper even for a Scolops.
That’s probably why we’ll stay middle of the road if Snags is our best forward and Brad is our second best mid.

Higgins was surplus to Richmond’s needs. Crouch was surplus to Adelaide’s needs. They weren’t fresh and untried like the Hammer

We already had small and mid size forwards in Billings, Gresh and Butler. We already had Seb Ross, Jack Steele, Hunter Clark, and Jack Bytel.


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005972Post Yorkeys »

Teflon wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 1:02pm Think the coach said it best
17th? For inside 50 scoring efficiency????
You can’t have that and allow 4 goals from defender mistakes
Fix forward 50 entries - change angles, lower eyes, become unpredictable
It’ll be much much harder for opponents to simply stop us with King Caminiti (Membrey?) Owens IF we are organised and still lowering our eyes …
I agree like last year we got the jump fitness wise
That will come back to the pack
Seems to me we have not been scoring efficient since maybe Milney. Successive coaches had not addressed that. We now have acknowledgement. Higgins and Butler have never been efficiency solutions. Now more productive but hardly efficient. Sharman seemed efficient to me but lost favour. Hypothetical, but I wonder if persisting with him over the bog ordinary Membrey might have us better off. I also wonder if our improved efficiency has to come from a true lead up forward- Fritsch like - and Windy becoming a true half forward.


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005974Post Scollop »

Everyone is allowed their opinion. I want our team to become a powerhouse. I want guys with upside. I love the fact that we have young guys like Bytel, NWM, Owens and Pou and a guy like Caminiti

My opinion is that you have to make decisions to improve the team. Higgins is limited and has deficiencies. He has ripper goal celebrations though.

When you bring in a guy like Crouch it reduces the opportunities for guys like Windy, Byrnes, Clark and Bytel. Jack could have played more games in 2022, but he didn’t because we recruited Crouch. Jack could have helped us win against Port on Friday night but he didn’t because Crouch is seen as our second best mid


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005976Post takeaway »

Scollop wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 1:21pm
takeaway wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 1:13pm
Scollop wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 12:52pm

As I’ve said before. We recruited Crouch and Higgins at the end of 2020. Both were surplus to our needs
Surplus to our needs? Higgins currently our best forward and Crouch our 2nd best mid this season? That's a ripper even for a Scolops.
That’s probably why we’ll stay middle of the road if Snags is our best forward and Brad is our second best mid.

Higgins was surplus to Richmond’s needs. Crouch was surplus to Adelaide’s needs. They weren’t fresh and untried like the Hammer

We already had small and mid size forwards in Billings, Gresh and Butler. We already had Seb Ross, Jack Steele, Hunter Clark, and Jack Bytel.
Billings been injured, Gresh also, and inconsistent, Butler OK but only one excellent game in 4, first small forward to be dropped imo.
Richmond did not want to lose Higgins.

You need about 10 mids, and Crouch has been excellent. Has he been dropped? He also came cheaply, due to that incident. You can't count Bytel, hasn't done anything in seniors, will he get the chance? Clark is just developing now.

Crouch and Higgins both excellent pickups, no doubt.


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2005982Post Teflon »

Yorkeys wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 1:58pm
Teflon wrote: Sun 30 Apr 2023 1:02pm Think the coach said it best
17th? For inside 50 scoring efficiency????
You can’t have that and allow 4 goals from defender mistakes
Fix forward 50 entries - change angles, lower eyes, become unpredictable
It’ll be much much harder for opponents to simply stop us with King Caminiti (Membrey?) Owens IF we are organised and still lowering our eyes …
I agree like last year we got the jump fitness wise
That will come back to the pack
Seems to me we have not been scoring efficient since maybe Milney. Successive coaches had not addressed that. We now have acknowledgement. Higgins and Butler have never been efficiency solutions. Now more productive but hardly efficient. Sharman seemed efficient to me but lost favour. Hypothetical, but I wonder if persisting with him over the bog ordinary Membrey might have us better off. I also wonder if our improved efficiency has to come from a true lead up forward- Fritsch like - and Windy becoming a true half forward.
Yep have similar thoughts for a while re our forward efficiency
Be good to see what that looks like once King/Caminiti settle in
My personal view on Membrey….life after Tim starts now/soon - he’s not going to get quicker, has poor defensive efforts (that’s fine if you’re kicking goals to offset) that said he’ll play well against Nth….it’s his second game ba k so let’s see but it’s not even Membrey’s output that has me worried…..the forward line simply looked more dynamic/on the move without him ….his slow decision making hurts the game style we play so he’s no good up on a wing like Ratten played him …
Butler is another…..just dumb brain fade decisions to go for a speccy 5 deep when the game is in he balance…I have noticed he’s trying to score more this year which is good….can’t just get away with pressure acts…..how good would it have been if we had a Rioli type to that mercurial snap and bob up kick a few when you need it? Butler doesn’t present as dangerous like that often enough….unlike Milne used to
Think the forwards need some tinkering long term if we truly want to score more efficiently
We’ve at least addressed ball movement this year….be interesting see if RTB/Harvey can solve that forward line efficiency but at least we have a coach whose acknowledged it


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2006148Post Sanctorum »

In the second half of 2022 the team had major problems with disposal skills bordering on chronic and while there has been considerable improvement this year there is still much more work to be done on this crucial aspect of the game.

Missing targets when driving the ball into the forward 50 is largely responsible for the poor conversion rate from the superior number of forward entries in the losses to Collingwood and Port Adelaide.

That's where the problem lies, as I see it, and no doubt that will be given top priority at training this week.


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Re: Issues going forward

Post: # 2006395Post seano1 »

Otiman wrote: Sat 29 Apr 2023 7:48pm
The Fireman wrote: Sat 29 Apr 2023 7:38pm We need another crouch but a better one
Matt Crouch isn't getting a game this year. Worth picking up as a DFA.
Think he broke his leg in pre season game


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