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Goose is king wrote:Ruckmen take far too long to develop for any of us to know what sort of players they will be at this level
How old was Minson last year when he went from Dud to AA?
Even if they can't play in the same side (I think they can) it won't hurt keeping them both for three more years to see which ones the best.
So we waste a pick on a seconds player? By the way if they can play in the same side why havent they?
They haven't played together p66 mainly because of injury.
Did Hickey play today? No
I bet they will play together this year.
But even if they do play together that doesn't prove my point that they can play well together
When they begin to play together well that will prove my point.
That may not even be next year but the year after.
Goose is king wrote:They haven't played together p66 mainly because of injury.
Did Hickey play today? No
I bet they will play together this year.
But even if they do play together that doesn't prove my point that they can play well together
When they begin to play together well that will prove my point.
That may not even be next year but the year after.
So you think that if we dont have an injury next season that we should keep one in the seconds in 2016 just to maybe prove they can play together.
David Hale was pretty average as a forward until his 6th season where he kicked 37 goals.
I think it's way too early to say that neither of Longer or Hickey will eventually be able to play as a forward/ruck, Hickey particularly is good at contested marking, so he may well develop, Longer is 5 years away from really hitting his straps.
Pretty likely that one will be injured most of the time and if neither end up being able to play forward then we trade the worst one, if they want to leave.
You can't have just one potential #1 ruckmen on the list as they take so long to develop, they may get to 27 and just be ordinary.
Goose is king wrote:No I think that as soon as both have one or two weeks of footy they will be played in the same side his year.
Could even be next round if hickey is ok
Goose is king wrote:They haven't played together p66 mainly because of injury.
Did Hickey play today? No
I bet they will play together this year.
But even if they do play together that doesn't prove my point that they can play well together
When they begin to play together well that will prove my point.
That may not even be next year but the year after.
So you think that if we dont have an injury next season that we should keep one in the seconds in 2016 just to maybe prove they can play together.
Is that a question or a statement? Because the former poster didn't suggest that at all. I do find it a little odd after all the injuries we've had this year, posters think it is a good idea to trade these two developing ruckmen again for another McEvoy type ruckman.
I also cannot fathom why anyone would consider getting rid of young talent given that we want to be plsying finals again before another Ice Age.
Goose is king wrote:They haven't played together p66 mainly because of injury.
Did Hickey play today? No
I bet they will play together this year.
But even if they do play together that doesn't prove my point that they can play well together
When they begin to play together well that will prove my point.
That may not even be next year but the year after.
I don't think it was a coincidence that Longer was dropped when Hickey came back and he was straight back in when Hickey was injured.
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Goose is king wrote:They haven't played together p66 mainly because of injury.
Did Hickey play today? No
I bet they will play together this year.
But even if they do play together that doesn't prove my point that they can play well together
When they begin to play together well that will prove my point.
That may not even be next year but the year after.
So you think that if we dont have an injury next season that we should keep one in the seconds in 2016 just to maybe prove they can play together.
Is that a question or a statement? Because the former poster didn't suggest that at all. I do find it a little odd after all the injuries we've had this year, posters think it is a good idea to trade these two developing ruckmen again for another McEvoy type ruckman.
I also cannot fathom why anyone would consider getting rid of young talent given that we want to be plsying finals again before another Ice Age.
Who suggested any of that? Actually one guy did but its a silly idea.
1) Longer is 20, Hickey 23 both are developing
2) Both have had injured throughout the year so have hardly been available for selection at the same time.
3) As they are developing we have no idea if they can play in a developed St.kilda team
4) We had Hickey and Pelchan went for Longer. Why would this be, so one or the other can flounder in the seconds?
5) One or the other has been injured this year, Blake is gone, Holmes and Pierce are miles off, Stanley is still finding his feet as a forward and should not be expected to ruck. So who rucks when one of the other is injured.
So in my opinion this is why it is a rubbish, premature and half cocked.
So carry on and try to bait, but that is my opinion. I know you take umbrage at others not slavishly agreeing with your opinions (although you love to belittle others opinions), but I have a right to a view, even if it ruffles your fragile feathers
There's no doubt you need more than one ruckman on the list. The question is can you play more than one in the same game? If you want to do so at least one of them needs to be able to play a position other than ruck. With the way rotations are these days you can't afford to have one spot on the bench filled by a ruckman for the entire game.
Hopefully at least one of Longer or Hickey develops that capability. While we have Stanley in the team I'm not sure we need another ruckman.
Hickey appears the most flexible and rounded of the 2 - but also the least durable. So unless he can put a solid season together I think they will continue to lead with Tom and have Billy as a fallback who will naturally get games because Tom will struggle to put more than half a dozen games together. If Tom starts to string a whole lot of games together only then will they entertain the thought of a trade.
Life is never more fun than when you're the underdog competing against the giants.
It's far too early to tell what either ruckman can offer.
IMO need to keep both on the list, past 2016 ( barring serious injury or complete loss of form to one of them) Longer does seem to be developing a little quicker than Hickey, but I think that's because Hickey has had a few more injury problems.
Longer s definitely the better tap ruckman and appears a bit more physical, longer better around the ground.
IMO it's a great problem to have . Hawthorn seem to be doing ok with three ruckmen vying for a spot. I don't think they would be in a hurry to get rid of one of them, and will likely get another when Hale gets older.
It's possible the way the game is going that the power full forwards wil become things of the past with a mobile marking ruckman playing the full forward post. This may mean that opposing teams will likely need a ruckman who plays back to compete in the air
Personally I can see it working with both playing as bookends, and sharing the hit outs.
We may even be the first club to do it sucessfully.
We went from having one lumbering ruck to two mobile rucks, there would be some sort ir reason Pelechen and Co would go that way.
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
I think they'll both be B+ or above ruckman and in a year will both be top 10 ruckman in the league. A lot will depend on injury/fitness. A ready made elite or close to ruckman takes years of development so their trade value will be high. We don't have a need for both so we'll trade one on to get a ready made key forward or whatever equivalent talent. No pressure on both at the moment, we'll just see how it pans out.
I have no idea if these two guys can play in the same side together but I am sure there are plenty of premiership winning sides with a dual ruck combination - so worth persisting with until we know more about the players and their compatibility I would have thought??
How has stanley's game (and next few weeks) impact on our rebuild. I wonder if this could sway the reciters towards Petracca.
If
- Stanley continues and shows he can play the tippet type of role
- Hickey plays the ruck/forward role similar to Cox
- Bruce works hard on providing a third option
- Spencer White and Lee improve as other options
Where does McCartin fit in. Petracca adds the Judd element to the midfield and we are progressing well with the rebuild.
We are also back to the problem from a few years ago. Finding a replacement for Chips.
Will be interesting to see what happens next year in the advanced development of Holmes and Pierce. If they start to show AFL ability, I feel we might trade one of the rucks next year to a club that doesn't have the quality 2nd ruck.
On the actual topic.
Competition for spots is a good thing, and until Pierce or Holmes or someone else is ready to be the first back up ruckman, then trading away either would be a mistake.
No harm in keeping them both for a few years and having them push each harder.
Regardless of age, when or if we look to offload one of them we would still be looking at a high pick. Rucks are always in demand. Already developed rucks are even better.
From memory the Pies have up a top 15 pick for Cameron Wood and he was nothing fancy
