I don't remember you banging on about seb two years ago when was the same age as Luke is now… when he had basically the same numbers as Luke this year but kicked only one goal in ten games.BigMart wrote:Seb is more skilled than Dunstan and is a far better runner.
Still happy with McEvoy trade
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10457
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1329 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
BigMart wrote:Sav would not have been part of their 2013 - 15 plans otherwise he wouldn't have bee given away as steak knives in a trade deal, and he wouldn't have agreed to that trade from a premiership favourite to a bottom team if he was an important player in their set up.
Dunstan and Mitchell should not be mentioned in the same sentence. One is a gun, who is leading a b&f by a mile and is on 600k and averages 34 possessions a game
The other is in the VFL and in the afl averages 17
There is a fair gulf between the two...
Selling the farm is interesting too
Pick 14 for Mitchell was a bargain imo
They overpaid for Jaeger
It was a reasonable trade for both parties for what they wanted/needed
Sold Lewis Mitchell and then traded 14 to get him in. Savage if he stayed would have been right in contention for a spot if he hung around. He was obviously chucked in to get the trade the Hawks needed over the line.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30096
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Gershwin wrote:I'll complicate it further by saying that if we hadn't traded McEvoy we wouldn't have used pick 25 on Longer. We already had Hickey. We could have used pick 25 on Zach Merrett.
So without the trade we could have: McEvoy, Hartung, Merrett
With the trade: Savage, Dunstan, Acres, Longer
Exactly. People get too hung up on any one player or trade.
The Saints decided to rebuild by churning through large number of players. The list we had was going nowhere!
You also can compare the value of say McEvoy the Saints to the value of him.
The Hawks already had a very good team, and so just wanted to shore up some areas that they were weak in.
Whereas the Saints had a list that needed a major work over. A new player or two would make no difference. We needed MANY. We basically has to build a whole new team in the main.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Then you have a poor memory Dragit? , two years ago he was in great shape, was training the house down and looked ready to take the next step. Unfortunately he tore his hamstring off the bone in a pre season game and missed 12 weeks.
The years prior he got far less opportunity than Luke D and had to bide his time at Sandy, where he killed it!
Why did he bide his time?
Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Armitage, Steven, Jones were first choice mids all in their mid to late 20s
If you went back, I'd suggest you'd find that I've generally rated Seb as solid to good... didn't see some of his top end coming, but he was always skilled in the contest. Is bigger than Luke, far better engine!!!
The years prior he got far less opportunity than Luke D and had to bide his time at Sandy, where he killed it!
Why did he bide his time?
Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Armitage, Steven, Jones were first choice mids all in their mid to late 20s
If you went back, I'd suggest you'd find that I've generally rated Seb as solid to good... didn't see some of his top end coming, but he was always skilled in the contest. Is bigger than Luke, far better engine!!!
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Sam Mitchell opted out of Hawthorn, had nothing to do with the Tom Mitchell trade... but Tom Mitchell was always in their mind as a succession plan.
He's been outstanding this year, and is a gun.
He's been outstanding this year, and is a gun.
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Do we mark players on number of goals kicked?
Pretty sure Seb returned from a LTI to play half a season 2 years ago
Pretty sure Seb returned from a LTI to play half a season 2 years ago
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
You're right, I had forgotten… but I just caught up & you would have traded him for pick 40.BigMart wrote:Then you have a poor memory Dragit?
BigMart wrote:He'll always be a plodder/Accumulator
BigMart wrote:Seb Ross... Pick 25 2011 draft 187cm inside mid 20 games
Pick 35-45: Likely club
Essendon
Deal I'd accept would be third round pick pick 40?
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Yep and he averaged the same numbers as Luke has this year, but didn't kick goals like Luke has this year in 4/5 games.BigMart wrote:Do we mark players on number of goals kicked?
Pretty sure Seb returned from a LTI to play half a season 2 years ago
Yes goals kicked is one of the things we measure players on.
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Well, Rob Harvey was pretty average then... because he only set up plenty?!
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Ha! You probably called him a plodder too at some stage.BigMart wrote:Well, Rob Harvey was pretty average then... because he only set up plenty?!
Are you actually arguing that goals kicked by mids aren't important?
Seb had 2 goal assists in 10 games in 2015 btw.
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Also, in you're 2015 assessment of Seb..Did you take into account the two games he played out of 12 in the sub vest? I'm sure you did yeah, he played a qtr or so in both those games...
And I think Seb Ross is not quick at all, but reads the play well, finds the ball well, uses it by hand very well, foot well... and he has a good engine. He is like BJ, Joey, Kennedy or Jobe or Pendles over the turf... none are quick, but read the game well, and move well with the ball laterally.
And I think Seb Ross is not quick at all, but reads the play well, finds the ball well, uses it by hand very well, foot well... and he has a good engine. He is like BJ, Joey, Kennedy or Jobe or Pendles over the turf... none are quick, but read the game well, and move well with the ball laterally.
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Hmm
Here's one from 2012... why didn't you quote this?
... showed some real positive signs...whether that translates into AFL ability....time will tell But at least they proved they can play the game.... Seb Ross is a definite....I would gladly bet my pay packet that he plays 100+ Markworth has physical attributes Newnes has football ability but like ...
Here's one from 2012... why didn't you quote this?
... showed some real positive signs...whether that translates into AFL ability....time will tell But at least they proved they can play the game.... Seb Ross is a definite....I would gladly bet my pay packet that he plays 100+ Markworth has physical attributes Newnes has football ability but like ...
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Average time for the year was 72 % including the sub games… still more minutes per game than Dunstan's 69% this year.BigMart wrote:Also, in you're 2015 assessment of Seb..Did you take into account the two games he played out of 12 in the sub vest? I'm sure you did yeah, he played a qtr or so in both those games...
You would have looked at overall game time yeah?
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30096
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
LOLBigMart wrote:Sam Mitchell opted out of Hawthorn, had nothing to do with the Tom Mitchell trade...
.
Yeh he opted out out of Hawthorn....... just like McEvoy "'opted out"" of St Kilda.
“I wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t helping me, of course. Hawthorn came to me with it. I have helped them out of bit of a bind, but I am also bettering my opportunities at the same time. "" Sam Mitchell.
Now what would that "bit of a bind " have been? Nothing to do with clearing salary space for Tom, JOM and TV? I think it had everything to do with them.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10457
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1329 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Sam Mitchell was moved to help with the move of Tom to the Hawks.BigMart wrote:Sam Mitchell opted out of Hawthorn, had nothing to do with the Tom Mitchell trade... but Tom Mitchell was always in their mind as a succession plan.
He's been outstanding this year, and is a gun.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Do we judge mids on how many goals they kick? .... Hayes, Harvey? The two best I ever saw... how many goals?
Nathan Burke, kick a lot of goals? Pretty good player?? Judd - at Carlton? Scott West?? The Great Sam Mitchell??
Matt Priddis... should I go on?
It's nice if they do kick goals, but it's how many they generate (not assist which is a nothing stat) ... certainly not judged on goals kicked.
On Quoting
I think if you're going to do it, put it in context... I think that's a fair
I did not ask you to quote, you searched history, to make a point with a selective post. Things change, so if you're gonna do that, at least do it properly... I think it's an easy thing to do...
Do you know if Seb spent as much time in the middle 2015, do you know what role he was playing, was he off a good preparation, had he shown much prior, had he gone to another level? Lots of questions.
Has Luke Dunstan improved from his first season
Nathan Burke, kick a lot of goals? Pretty good player?? Judd - at Carlton? Scott West?? The Great Sam Mitchell??
Matt Priddis... should I go on?
It's nice if they do kick goals, but it's how many they generate (not assist which is a nothing stat) ... certainly not judged on goals kicked.
On Quoting
I think if you're going to do it, put it in context... I think that's a fair
I did not ask you to quote, you searched history, to make a point with a selective post. Things change, so if you're gonna do that, at least do it properly... I think it's an easy thing to do...
Do you know if Seb spent as much time in the middle 2015, do you know what role he was playing, was he off a good preparation, had he shown much prior, had he gone to another level? Lots of questions.
Has Luke Dunstan improved from his first season
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 17028
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3647 times
- Been thanked: 2918 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
I reckon it still is a huge win for us...
Vastly overrated player McEvoy, wasn't much chop with us and would have a much worse reputation if he was traded to a club like Carlton that was on a loser trajectory instead of having his weaknesses undersold in the all conquering Hawks team
Vastly overrated player McEvoy, wasn't much chop with us and would have a much worse reputation if he was traded to a club like Carlton that was on a loser trajectory instead of having his weaknesses undersold in the all conquering Hawks team
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Solid Player Ben
Suited the Hawks perfectly
Sav has been ok Luke must improve
Suited the Hawks perfectly
Sav has been ok Luke must improve
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 17028
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3647 times
- Been thanked: 2918 times
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2295
- Joined: Sun 27 Jan 2008 9:05am
- Has thanked: 769 times
- Been thanked: 207 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Very happy with this trade. I think the steak knives is finished now though. I'd prefer to see Rice, White and McKenzie come in if required before Savage returns. Dunstan does need to find another level but I'm sure he will.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4940
- Joined: Fri 05 Jun 2009 3:05pm
- Has thanked: 343 times
- Been thanked: 491 times
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
BigMart wrote:Sam Mitchell opted out of Hawthorn, had nothing to do with the Tom Mitchell trade... but Tom Mitchell was always in their mind as a succession plan.
He's been outstanding this year, and is a gun.
Let's not get carried away. He's been good. Outstanding? Speak to any real Hawk fans and they will tell you that he's one of the main reasons they are struggling. His accuracy by foot is average at best - he basically wins the hard ball and slams it on his foot. Because he wins the ball so often this happens quite frequently. Whereas Mitchell would use the ball beautifully with either hand or foot, meaning that his teammates could read what was about to happen and position themselves. Lewis was tough as nails and also a beautiful kick. Mitchell is winning the ball, which is the first step for any decent mid, but to be elite he needs to set the game up. Right now, Tom Mitchell is not a patch on the mids that the Hawks had at their disposal when they as a team were elite. Granted he's still their best mid, but all that tells you is where they are at at the moment.
Re: Still happy with McEvoy trade
Tom Mitchell is the reason they are struggling?
I think I could think of ten underachieving guys who have lost the hunger, before I'd consider a guy who has been listed as their best player in 4 out of the 7 games they've played.
He's averaging 34 per game, elite by hand, elite at stoppage and wins morefirst possession than any other player
Not sure Tom Mitchell for pick 14 is their biggest concern?
I think I could think of ten underachieving guys who have lost the hunger, before I'd consider a guy who has been listed as their best player in 4 out of the 7 games they've played.
He's averaging 34 per game, elite by hand, elite at stoppage and wins morefirst possession than any other player
Not sure Tom Mitchell for pick 14 is their biggest concern?