Jack Billings Needs to Be Traded

[saintsRrising]

Interesting thread.

So the logic is that in a team with many poor kicks that we will somehow be better by getting rid of one of our best field kicks???

Personally I think what we really need is a coaching team that can get the best out of our players rather than to get rid of one of our more skilled players.

[fugazi]

There is a fair bit of smoke re: JB not being happy at Saints.
Whether he fully respects Richo, and sees future for himself at Moorabin.
His on and off form suggests to me that he is in two minds.
No doubt he has really good mates there, and that counts alot.
But also he seems like a bloke who craves and expects success, and perhaps one who won't or can't fabricate false hope if he genuinely doesn't see any.

I think that when Roo went, the element of elite expectation went too. That has hurt this young list.
As good and brave as Geary is as a leader... you can't ask players to step up into a level that you don't occupy yourself.
Brisbane have been very canny with Hodge in this respect.

I would love to see Sam Mitchell come across as head coach or at least Senior assistant with a path to head coach by 2020.

It would instantly raise the bar for the whole list having a 4 time premiership, Brownlow medallist there.

If nothing else changes though....I will expect Billings to look for a trade

[Crossy66]

There is a fair bit of smoke re: JB not being happy at Saints.
Whether he fully respects Richo, and sees future for himself at Moorabin.
His on and off form suggests to me that he is in two minds.
No doubt he has really good mates there, and that counts alot.
But also he seems like a bloke who craves and expects success, and perhaps one who won't or can't fabricate false hope if he genuinely doesn't see any.

I think that when Roo went, the element of elite expectation went too. That has hurt this young list.
As good and brave as Geary is as a leader... you can't ask players to step up into a level that you don't occupy yourself.
Brisbane have been very canny with Hodge in this respect.

I would love to see Sam Mitchell come across as head coach or at least Senior assistant with a path to head coach by 2020.

It would instantly raise the bar for the whole list having a 4 time premiership, Brownlow medallist there.

If nothing else changes though....I will expect Billings to look for a trade

As good as Mitchell sounds, i think if there was to be a change of coach it should be an experienced one. No more experiments.
Billings has been very good since his VFL hiatus and would be our best field kick, so unless he doesnt want to be there, then we wont want to trade him.
It seems the saints have done the exhaustive review thing, similar to Collingwood and Richmond, so Richo likely gets another year with a shake up of assistants if we follow that model.

[bigcarl]

Interesting thread.

So the logic is that in a team with many poor kicks that we will somehow be better by getting rid of one of our best field kicks???

Personally I think what we really need is a coaching team that can get the best out of our players rather than to get rid of one of our more skilled players.

Exactly this. Billings is a potential gun. Let’s bring in another one-paced plodder who is “strong at the contest” to replace him.

[Yorkeys]

As a sort of aside, I wonder what AFL team would take Paddy? Even if he were free the maintenance costs would be v. high. Unless he is playing injured (concussion related?) or has some personal problems weighing on his performances he has nothing of particular value to bring at the moment (?). Perhaps he needs a spell , some work on the jumping bag, timing/flight of the ball exercises et al.... guess, guess. Obviously our coaches are unable to lift his performances, he appears to me to have gone backwards but that is probably explained by his concussions. I feel great sympathy for him and would like to know whether the coaching staff know he can deliver in his current physical circumstances or are whistling in the dark, or worse taking risks with his health. And if we are taking a poll, Billings should firmly be marked as a required player. Now giving Weller a Billings mask and putting him on gumtree......

[bigcarl]

I watched him yesterday. His body language is one that shows a lot of dejection.

I wonder if it’s the same look of dejection I get nearly every time I see us play this season?

Maybe he doesn’t like the team being flogged every week.

[wally]

We need to develop these guys not trade them in hope of getting someone better.

[Moods]

Interesting thread.

So the logic is that in a team with many poor kicks that we will somehow be better by getting rid of one of our best field kicks???

Personally I think what we really need is a coaching team that can get the best out of our players rather than to get rid of one of our more skilled players.

Best field kicks???
Why?
Because that’s what it said on his draft dossier?
I don’t care what the stats say. Good or bad. My eyes tell me that Billings is beautifully balanced right up to the point of impact. And invariably what he’s intending to do with the ball, doesn’t happen. He also handpasses way too much for a guy who’s meant to be a beautiful kick. His kick to handpass ratio would be similar to someone like Clayton Oliver (an inside player) but instead he’s an outside player with great skills, who often handpasses, and when does kick, is average at field kicks, and terrible at his bread and butter; which is kicking goals.

I’m with the OP. I’m just about done with him. Not sure if it’s completely his fault or not. I suspect not. The coaching at our club and development is abysmal. We have, bar none, the worst ruck combination in the league. This doesn’t help Jack. If Paddy and Jack lived up to expectations of their draft pick, then we would be 6-10th on the ladder.

[saintsRrising]

Why?
Because that’s what it said on his draft dossier?

No. Based on what I see

His kick to handpass ratio would be similar to someone like Clayton Oliver (an inside player)

?

Billings is 52%. Oliver is 33% this season in terms of kicks per disposal.



PS: As one of our few good kicks opposition coaches do not allow Billings much space as they want to pressure him so that he cannot kick as well as he can. If we had more good kicks Billings would get free more often as the opposition would also have more damaging players that they will be worrying about.

Whereas have you ever wondered why other teams do not worry about denying say Geary space? A: Because they know that he cannot hurt them that much when he has the ball in hand.

[Moods]

52% is still way to low for an outside player. We drafted him because he was an elite kick who could kick goals. I see plenty of opportunities for Billings to kick during games but he chooses to handpass. I see that as a lack of confidence. I also wonder whether his decision making is a bit slow. This weekend wasn’t a once off where his kicks were smothered.

Your argument is well made, but I don’t buy it. However I will watch closely this weekend to observe if the opposition are closing his space down as you say.

It still doesn’t explain why he keeps missing gettable goals from set shots and relatively easy snap shots ( for a player of his supposed skill level)

[DJ Higgins]

Billing swill be a player that if he stays will stay average but if we trade him out he will become a star. He has the talent it is just not coming out for some reason so I blame the coaches. It has been long enough for him to be a gun by now and he isn't.

I would still keep him and ditch the coaches. It will be interesting to see what we would get for him .

[saintsRrising]

52% is still way to low for an outside player. We drafted him because he was an elite kick who could kick goals. I see plenty of opportunities for Billings to kick during games but he chooses to handpass. I see that as a lack of confidence. I also wonder whether his decision making is a bit slow. This weekend wasn’t a once off where his kicks were smothered.

Your argument is well made, but I don’t buy it. However I will watch closely this weekend to observe if the opposition are closing his space down as you say.

It still doesn’t explain why he keeps missing gettable goals from set shots and relatively easy snap shots ( for a player of his supposed skill level)

I still see coaching and player development as our No 1 problem

Richo was meant to a gun developer of young talent. I dont see this in Billings or in any other young player that we have.

You can trade Billings if you want but this is not addressing the root problem and you will just end up complaining about the next new kid instead.

[parkeysainter]

Been in our best the last 3 weeks and he is back to his best. Bloody hell, he is still well under 25. Give him a break and he will get even better when he gets to around 25. Same as all our other draftees and players we brought in that are coming through right now. We just need to be patient and it takes time. When we start playing finals again, Billings will be A grade in a much better side.

[Joffa Burns]

When we start playing finals again, Billings will be A grade in a much better side.

I agree with this, Billings has all the hallmarks of being a front runner and looking elite in a top 4 side.
You could see him in an Issac Smith style role getting on the end of a heap of ball and kicking a bag in a GF.

We are a five year build away from being a top 4 side and I don't think Billings could last 5 years at St Kilda, so perhaps it would be better for the club and Jack to move him now while he is young enough to develop at a strong club and worth enough on the market to get a good pick if a club believes he offers enough blue sky.

[repta]

He is not being used to his potential. There is a disconnect between the Saints game plan and his skills.
Trading partners would play hardball with him and we would end up getting stuff all of nothing for him. Other teams will pay only a small amount for 'potential'.
If Billings needs more space to operate best, that is going to be up to him to put up his hand and work harder to get into space. He shows glimpses and has great potential. But with an average tank, average speed and no penetration on his kick he has a long way to go to be elite. Forward Flanker at best (and one that doesnt know where the goal posts are).

Being in the top half dozen players in a team that puts up performances like the weekend is nothing special.

[Zed]

Billings is the sort that will be a very good player if you put good players around him.
Its no coincidence that his best games are the ones where we invariably win or are right in the contest. Those games are the ones where others in the team are also playing well.
Quite simply, we cant surround him with enough good players to get the most out of him. We are a crap team and will be for the foreseeable future. Expect his performances to mirror the teams performance.

[groupie1]

We need to trade someone of value to get back into the early stages of the draft.

Offers will come for Billings, Paddy and one or 2 of our young guns.

Personally I hope we trade either Paddy or Ross as they still have some market value. Ross tries hard and gets a lot of it but butchers it. Either of these 2 could potentially deliver us a first rounder.

I absolutely agree with trading S Ross. Paddy.... the deal would have to include a player

[longtimesaint]

I am glad the club doesn’t read the rubbish posted on this site.
Many of the “suggestions “ would be the quickest way to stay near the bottom of the ladder.

[takeaway]

Why this urgency to get back in the early stages of the draft? We have a first rounder, and unless Billings, Ross, or McCartin want out (which I am sure is not the case), you would be mad to trade any of them. You never know, we may get a FA. There are future picks as well.

Also, we do not know details of any new rules that look like coming in - less congestion may favour players like Paddy and Billings especially.

[The Fireman]

at least wait till he has a good game

[Sainternist]

at least wait till he has a good game

When was that? Versus WCE last year?

[Jacks Back]

Have you ever thought that some of our players may want to be traded out of this rabble? That's what I'm worried about with up and coming players like Gresham, Clark, etc, who may want to go to better teams.

Maybe a change of assistant and development coaches may turn some of the lesser performing players around.

[takeaway]

at least wait till he has a good game

When was that? Versus WCE last year?

Your'e a great supporter. Haven't seen a game since WCE last year?

[To the top]

On the way out so just quickly, these kids who are our future are suffering because they do not have the cover of elite, experienced players

As someone commented Opposition sides are quite happy to see the ball in the hands of our Captain - he is NEVER assigned a defensive forward to restrict his influence on a game

Then we play lumbering logs like Longer - so a player down and worse because no one can compliment him

So look where fault is - not where fault is not

In the absence of Roberton we only have the elite Carlisle and Steven

These kids are not 25 plus year olds with over 100 games experience - they are still developing in very trying circumstances because when oppositions analyse St Kilda it is our kids who cop the attention - not Weller or Newnes or Geary or Ross and others who never cop “tags” to reduce their influence

And that is at the crux of where St Kilda finds itself

This was obvious from the retirements of Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster on the heels of Fisher and anyone who did not see that has no idea - and they also think Longer is an AFL footballer which only compounds the problem

The Poms v France?

[Sainternist]

at least wait till he has a good game

When was that? Versus WCE last year?

Your'e a great supporter. Haven't seen a game since WCE last year?

I've watched every game since. Sounds like you're in denial. Billings has been way, way under par. He was even dropped to the VFL about a month ago. Wake up and smell the coffee!!!