Where have the Saints gone?

[bigcarl]

Then things changed. The Saints were overtaken by men with a strut. With a swagger. Saints men were back in charge. But Saints men who didn't seem content with being everyone's 'second team'.

When GT took over as coach, I never felt better about the Saints. We had a Saint as Pres, a Saint as Coach and a real sense of belief in the club. It eminated throughout the supporter base - and it scared the rest of the footy world.

stop it rog, you're making me nostalgic.

it's like looking back at a broken relationship that shouldn't have ended. As others have said, in the end you really have no choice but to move on.

i, too, long for the passion, belief and expectation that went right through the club not that long ago.

perhaps a really good start to the season will bring it back. here's hoping.

[rodgerfox]

Does this thread actually have a point?

Not really.

[WayneJudson42]

It's almost like going to the pub and getting knocked back by a girl. "Oh but I'm attracted to you, so why do you treat me with contempt and not accept my offer for sex? You b1tch!" Dumb logic.

That's incredibly dumb logic. And I'm completely perplexed as to how that relates to this thread in any way shape or form??

It relates to people's views... like yours about how they perceive, amd expect the club to behave.

Supporters keep harping on about what the club is doing wrong wrong in "their" view. And that's all it is, one's person's view.

But just because you have that view, doesn't make it correct IMO. Hence the analogy. My analogy. My view. I stated it reminds me... but never stated it as fact.

[evertonfc]

Why is it that people get so incredibly defensive of the club over anyone who raises an objection?

We should be striving to make this place better, not wallowing in mediocrity - and paying for the privledge.

The critics love the club just as much as the head-nodders. The only reason we speak up is because we want this club to be the best that it can be both on and off field.

So when joffaboy says he's pissed off about how he's been treated by the club, maybe it's worth listening. He wouldn't say it just for the sake of it.

Likewise, RF has stuff all to gain from venting his feeling on here - he's doing it because he wants the club to be the best that it can be.

But sadly, so many feel self-criticism is not the role of the supporter. Our job, to them, should be to pay up the big dollars, cheer the team, and show blind faith. I'm sorry, but that doesn't wash. And we've been doing that for 135 years - it's time some questions were asked.

We deserve better. And if the club was willing to reach out to us, like, say, how Hawthorn has reached out to their members, we might find ourselves in an equally strong position.

[Mr Magic]

Does this thread actually have a point?

Yep, Rodger up to his old tricks of baiting the hook, casting in and seeing how many he can reel in.

This passionless poster is so bored with AFL Football in general and StKilda specifically that he feels the need to post a thread on a St Kilda fan forum telling us all how the Club and AFL have evolved into a business designed to rob him of his feeling of excitemement.

If you're feeling that emotion why bother to tell the rest of us?
Why not just go away and do something that gives you pleasure or that you can feel passionate about?
Or
Maybe you are acting on psychological advice to tell everyone of your malaise (lack of passion)? I've seen in the movies that 'shrinks' often get their patients to do similarly as one of the steps to curing them.

Oh, and you know the best thing about this trolling thread?
- any disagreement with his pov elicits the response that the poster has 'missed' his pov.
Just breathtakingly smug and beautiful at the same time.

Here's some advice to you Rodger.

GT's gone - move on.

[saint08]

Been wondering for a while exactly why my love of AFL footy and the Saints is continuing to wane at a rapid rate.

This is a club that was once a lifestyle for me. Life would revolve around where we were playing the coming weekend, and my mood depended on whether we won or not.

My daily routine consisted of scouring every newspaper and website for any hint of Saints related news.

And forget about Thursday. I'd be useless until the teams were announced. Then even worse on the Friday. My weekends were totally dictated by the footy.

Going back a few years before that as a kid, I'd go down to training with my mate at least twice a week. We'd ended up knowing the whole team and coaches and they'd even let us help out at training. Before games at Moorabbin, we'd sneak into the rooms as the boys were getting ready. Most of the time, they'd let us stay in there.

The place was full of 'Saints men'.

When we played away, my mate and I would go to the Supermarket early in the morning and stock up on supplies with our pocket money, then jump on the train at Bentleigh station and hea to enemy territory. I'd be as nervous as I was when I played myself!

I had a scrapbook with pictures from the paper of every player, and I'd head down to Moorabbin and get them signed. I still have that scrapbook actually.

I was the only kid at my high school to become a member of the Plugger Squad. Some club (I have no idea what it was actually in aid of) that got you a Plugger badge and a bunch of Plugger postcards.

Basically, I was a Saints fiend. A complete and utter footy head.


As a young adult, I probably got worse. I stopped playing myself so all my energy went into following and supporting the Saints.

The newspaper cutouts and stalking players for autographs at training ceased, but the intense beer fuelled footy discussions at the pub after work started. This also coincided with us playing good footy under Stan.

I was probably more intense and obsessed with the Saints and the footy than ever.

The passion became more fierce when Watson was in charge. We were shiit. And we needed to be defended. I needed to defend us, because nothing was happening on the field to suggest we could look after ourselves! I had to go into bat for us at every opportunity.

Then things changed. The Saints were overtaken by men with a strut. With a swagger. Saints men were back in charge. But Saints men who didn't seem content with being everyone's 'second team'.

When GT took over as coach, I never felt better about the Saints. We had a Saint as Pres, a Saint as Coach and a real sense of belief in the club. It eminated throughout the supporter base - and it scared the rest of the footy world.


Now fast forward to the present.

Where have all the Saints gone?

Ross Lyon. Silvagni. Drain. Fraser. Tudor.

These guys aren't 'Saints'. They're employees of the club. Not a part of it's makeup.

Even the playing list is looking more and more like a rep side instead of a Saints team. At one point recently, over a third of the players on the ground in Saints jumpers had been with another club only 12 months earlier.

Burke and Thompson are clearly Saints - but we don't see these guys. To be honest, I couldn't even tell you if they're still even on the Board or not.

There just doesn't seem to be anything 'Saints' about the Saints anymore.

Some would argue that perhaps this a good thing? Maybe it took Hawthorn to can the strategy of giving every job at the place to a 80's premiership player, for them to win a flag and move forward?


I find it very hard to get passionate about the club right now. The Saints were a big part of my life. Win, lose or draw.

The club at the moment seems far more like a business with employees, than a footy club with heart and passion.

I can't support a business with passion and emotion like I supported and followed a footy club.

All the 7 men currently on the board were and are Saints supporters and members before joining the board. it was one thing Westaway insisted on.

But 4 out of 5 of the Butters group on the former board were never members of Stkilda ever in their lives before joining the board.Butters( followed richmond) King (ex umpy - wife followed stkilda. Met Butters and joined board) Casey (followed Hawks) and kellett (played 3 clubs. never saints member) .

So I am not sure the "feeling" you seem to miss, depends on the board or staff being ex stkilda.although having ex-club players in the footy dept gives more of a saints feel to it.

[degruch]

Oh, and you know the best thing about this trolling thread?
- any disagreement with his pov elicits the response that the poster has 'missed' his pov.

I had noticed that.

Nothing wrong with being dismayed with Dimwit's AFL, or even Footy First's St Kilda, I wouldn't agree there's anything less passionate about the club than there's ever been, but that's my opinion (and I don't think the club 'orientation' of it's personnel matter either). I wouldn't be stuffed making my own thread for it though...Rodge will recover with some premiership Viagra, no doubt.

[rodgerfox]

This passionless poster is so bored with AFL Football in general and StKilda specifically that he feels the need to post a thread on a St Kilda fan forum telling us all how the Club and AFL have evolved into a business designed to rob him of his feeling of excitemement.

That's not what I've posted at all.

They haven't robbed me of anything. It's disappointing as as a kid, it was something that I loved and something that gave me lots of joy. But as an adult, you tend to get things in perspective, and more important and fulfilling things come into your life. Footy naturally takes a back seat.

What the club needs to be wary of, is that people who loved the club won't simply 'move on' or 'get over it' if they don't actually see the Saints as 'their' club.

The AFL and the clubs expect alot from the average fan these days. You need to book your seats. You need to pay exhorbident prices for food. You need to buy a membership to attend games. You need to drink light beer at night games. You need to buy Foxtel to watch games. You need to sit politely in designated areas.

The list goes on.

Only people who feel something for their club will continue to tow this line. Once you no longer really care about the club, only a moron would continue to be a supporter under these 'rules'. You just simply find something better to do on your weekend.

Therefore, the clubs need to be careful that they give supporters a reason to continue to 'care' about the club.

Recently, I don't think the Saints are doing anything, anything at all to give supporters a reason to want to support the club.
They can only rely on people's love of the club, for as long as the club still resembles the club that they fell in love with.

The Saints need to be very careful.

[rodgerfox]

...Rodge will recover with some premiership Viagra, no doubt.

It's not about results.


You also have missed the point entirely.

[degruch]

...Rodge will recover with some premiership Viagra, no doubt.

It's not about results.


You also have missed the point entirely.

Naturally.

I think you should find a club you feel passion for...this St Kilda lark ain't for you.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Strange thread. Seems to be about half relating to how emotionally tied into the Saints supporters are, and the other half people expressing their dislike of Rodgerfox.

And if we go back to the OP Rodger isn't wrong - the club does care about him less than it did during the Moorabbin days. It's employees are football professionals rather than passionate clubmen.

As for the groundswell of support, between 2003 and the firing of Grant Thomas, we saw a lot of St Kilda supporters come out of the woodwork. Supporters who had transitioned to footy fans more than Saints fans - because being a St Kilda supporter was a tough road... but once we were looking the goods to be the next dynasty, that quiet part of their hearts started to light up, and it didn't matter than we stopped being peoples 2nd team: we had some swagger of our own.

Emotion doesn't follow a plan though, and several years on, the excitement is gone from finishing 4th and making prelims - let alone just not being at the bottom. There will always be some who feel their passion entitles them, witnessed in a place like this when you read the words "go support someone else"... but our support, and the level of it is rational - we don't think, we do.

The question this thread seems to be trying to tackle is whether the level of that support important (and my thought is no, provided for every RodgerFox, there's a kid in QLD or NSW who's finding themselves living for footy) - even if we'd won a couple of premierships, it's tough to maintain unabated passion for a long period of time. If we take Rodger as an example, perhaps he's just getting older, perhaps the changing face of AFL is harder to relate to, perhaps the way we play has gradually sapped enjoyment... could be any number of things.

I know I'm an exception, I personally like AFL more as it becomes more of a business, I don't personally feel a need to be part of the club's culture (I actually enjoy being amused at myself for getting as worked up as I do since in most things I'm a very rational person). On the other hand, I know a lot of people, regardless of club who are becoming less passionate about the footy in the current era.

It's not even a decision, it's a reaction. For Rodger, if he misses the passion, I hope he finds it... and if he's in the mid 30s bracket the dates in the OP would suggest, he may find that like quite a few of my friends and colleagues, what relights his passion is children, and their passion.

After all, footy is a young man's game.

[plugger66]

This passionless poster is so bored with AFL Football in general and StKilda specifically that he feels the need to post a thread on a St Kilda fan forum telling us all how the Club and AFL have evolved into a business designed to rob him of his feeling of excitemement.

The AFL and the clubs expect alot from the average fan these days. You need to book your seats. You need to pay exhorbident prices for food. You need to buy a membership to attend games. You need to drink light beer at night games. You need to buy Foxtel to watch games. You need to sit politely in designated areas.

The list goes on.

quote]

You only need to book seats at about 4 games a year for a start. Food has always been dear at the footy even in the moorabbin days. You dont need a membership to attend 90% of games. Yes you need to drink Light beer at night. Well that must wreck a game. You dont need Foxtel to watch at least 11 games a year and there is always pubs and clubs as well as friends houses to see the other games or could always attend if in Melbourne. I dont know about you but in the area I go to you can yell as much as you want as long as long as you dont swear to much or racially abuse players. Cannot see to much wrong with that.

Ok you may have lost your passion and so have a few others but I think that happens to some when you really beleive that you were going to win a flag and it didnt quite happen. The Saints are are a great side if hard to watch at the moment but their time will come again just like your passion.

[evertonfc]

All the 7 men currently on the board were and are Saints supporters and members before joining the board. it was one thing Westaway insisted on.

But 4 out of 5 of the Butters group on the former board were never members of Stkilda ever in their lives before joining the board.Butters( followed richmond) King (ex umpy - wife followed stkilda. Met Butters and joined board) Casey (followed Hawks) and kellett (played 3 clubs. never saints member).

An interesting and valid point.

So I am not sure the "feeling" you seem to miss, depends on the board or staff being ex stkilda.although having ex-club players in the footy dept gives more of a saints feel to it.

I think we feel like the club doesn't really want to engage with fans at the moment. It's so important that we are looked upon as the lifeblood as the place - because we are!

And if you invest in looking after us, you'll find we'll give you a lifetime of purchasing merchandise and memberships and spreading of the Saints gospel.

I use Hawthorn as the example because they seem very much in tune with their support base. Similarly-sized in support to us, they seem to have tapped into supporters' needs and wants.

The seeds of their 40,000 campaign last year - and possibly 50,000 this year - were not sewn when the club drafted Buddy Franklin.

They were sewn when the club embarked on a aggressive campaign to connect with grass roots fans in the mid-late 90s (look through the files of the Proud, Passionate and Paid-up campaign) and to re-establish the feeling of 'club'. The irony is, we had one of the people behind it come along and work for us - and that was the period where we felt closest to the club, and that we were all in it together. And the Saints' community meant something; not just as a piece of marketing spin eg: "TOGETHER, WE WON THE NAB CUP".

That's my two sense. I want this club to be absolutely in tune with the supporters, and to do everything [within reason] they can to involve us.

[rodgerfox]

Strange thread. Seems to be about half relating to how emotionally tied into the Saints supporters are, and the other half people expressing their dislike of Rodgerfox.

You'll find that 99% of threads I post in end up like that.

[Solar]

This passionless poster is so bored with AFL Football in general and StKilda specifically that he feels the need to post a thread on a St Kilda fan forum telling us all how the Club and AFL have evolved into a business designed to rob him of his feeling of excitemement.

The AFL and the clubs expect alot from the average fan these days. You need to book your seats. You need to pay exhorbident prices for food. You need to buy a membership to attend games. You need to drink light beer at night games. You need to buy Foxtel to watch games. You need to sit politely in designated areas.

The list goes on.

quote]

You only need to book seats at about 4 games a year for a start. Food has always been dear at the footy even in the moorabbin days. You dont need a membership to attend 90% of games. Yes you need to drink Light beer at night. Well that must wreck a game. You dont need Foxtel to watch at least 11 games a year and there is always pubs and clubs as well as friends houses to see the other games or could always attend if in Melbourne. I dont know about you but in the area I go to you can yell as much as you want as long as long as you dont swear to much or racially abuse players. Cannot see to much wrong with that.

Ok you may have lost your passion and so have a few others but I think that happens to some when you really beleive that you were going to win a flag and it didnt quite happen. The Saints are are a great side if hard to watch at the moment but their time will come again just like your passion.

Written and endorsed by the AFL party. Spoken by Plugger66.

[evertonfc]

Written and endorsed by the AFL party. Spoken by Plugger66.

Possibly your best ever contribution to this forum.

[Solar]

Written and endorsed by the AFL party. Spoken by Plugger66.

Possibly your best ever contribution to this forum.

I'm waiting for a warning for baiting... or bad humour...

[WayneJudson42]

Many of the changes you list a re a sign of the times with people demanding higher standards. The days of cold pies, standing in the rain, and pyssing inside th unlit dunnies at Linton St have long gone.

As P66 states, food was always expensive, and given that you can go to a game for pretty much the cost of a movie, and get a seat undercover... well, that's progress.

The higher expectations from the punters means it becomes more expensive to put on the show.

Now, I respect everyone's views. So please tell me exactly what the soltuions are. What should the club do to "embrace" supporters more. then let's petition the club.

Here's wher my nose get's out of joint. It's not that I don't respect negative views... but for FFS, if you feel THAT strongly... extract your digit and be proactive about it.

Make no mistake, just as the proxy votes spoke volumes last year, so would a some real action from disgruntled supporters.

The relationship won't be fixed simply by complaining and hoping that the other person changes. Never has, never will IMO.

[plugger66]

This passionless poster is so bored with AFL Football in general and StKilda specifically that he feels the need to post a thread on a St Kilda fan forum telling us all how the Club and AFL have evolved into a business designed to rob him of his feeling of excitemement.

The AFL and the clubs expect alot from the average fan these days. You need to book your seats. You need to pay exhorbident prices for food. You need to buy a membership to attend games. You need to drink light beer at night games. You need to buy Foxtel to watch games. You need to sit politely in designated areas.

The list goes on.

quote]

You only need to book seats at about 4 games a year for a start. Food has always been dear at the footy even in the moorabbin days. You dont need a membership to attend 90% of games. Yes you need to drink Light beer at night. Well that must wreck a game. You dont need Foxtel to watch at least 11 games a year and there is always pubs and clubs as well as friends houses to see the other games or could always attend if in Melbourne. I dont know about you but in the area I go to you can yell as much as you want as long as long as you dont swear to much or racially abuse players. Cannot see to much wrong with that.

Ok you may have lost your passion and so have a few others but I think that happens to some when you really beleive that you were going to win a flag and it didnt quite happen. The Saints are are a great side if hard to watch at the moment but their time will come again just like your passion.

Written and endorsed by the AFL party. Spoken by Plugger66.

Still can help it. Mind your own business little kid.

[Solar]

This passionless poster is so bored with AFL Football in general and StKilda specifically that he feels the need to post a thread on a St Kilda fan forum telling us all how the Club and AFL have evolved into a business designed to rob him of his feeling of excitemement.

The AFL and the clubs expect alot from the average fan these days. You need to book your seats. You need to pay exhorbident prices for food. You need to buy a membership to attend games. You need to drink light beer at night games. You need to buy Foxtel to watch games. You need to sit politely in designated areas.

The list goes on.

quote]

You only need to book seats at about 4 games a year for a start. Food has always been dear at the footy even in the moorabbin days. You dont need a membership to attend 90% of games. Yes you need to drink Light beer at night. Well that must wreck a game. You dont need Foxtel to watch at least 11 games a year and there is always pubs and clubs as well as friends houses to see the other games or could always attend if in Melbourne. I dont know about you but in the area I go to you can yell as much as you want as long as long as you dont swear to much or racially abuse players. Cannot see to much wrong with that.

Ok you may have lost your passion and so have a few others but I think that happens to some when you really beleive that you were going to win a flag and it didnt quite happen. The Saints are are a great side if hard to watch at the moment but their time will come again just like your passion.

Written and endorsed by the AFL party. Spoken by Plugger66.

Still can help it. Mind your own business little kid.

yes old man

[mad saint guy]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

[plugger66]

This passionless poster is so bored with AFL Football in general and StKilda specifically that he feels the need to post a thread on a St Kilda fan forum telling us all how the Club and AFL have evolved into a business designed to rob him of his feeling of excitemement.

The AFL and the clubs expect alot from the average fan these days. You need to book your seats. You need to pay exhorbident prices for food. You need to buy a membership to attend games. You need to drink light beer at night games. You need to buy Foxtel to watch games. You need to sit politely in designated areas.

The list goes on.

quote]

You only need to book seats at about 4 games a year for a start. Food has always been dear at the footy even in the moorabbin days. You dont need a membership to attend 90% of games. Yes you need to drink Light beer at night. Well that must wreck a game. You dont need Foxtel to watch at least 11 games a year and there is always pubs and clubs as well as friends houses to see the other games or could always attend if in Melbourne. I dont know about you but in the area I go to you can yell as much as you want as long as long as you dont swear to much or racially abuse players. Cannot see to much wrong with that.

Ok you may have lost your passion and so have a few others but I think that happens to some when you really beleive that you were going to win a flag and it didnt quite happen. The Saints are are a great side if hard to watch at the moment but their time will come again just like your passion.

Written and endorsed by the AFL party. Spoken by Plugger66.

Still can help it. Mind your own business little kid.

yes old man

I suppose everyone is old when you are only about 13 years of age. No need to respond anymore as I will have only one warning to go.

[rodgerfox]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

This is on the money.

People's passion for footy comes and goes - often comes when the team is winning, and goes when they're not.

However the love of the club keeps them on the hook. Keeps them coming back. Keeps them forking out the cash.

The problem now, is that there isn't much to love about the club. To many, it doesn't feel like the club at all.


So when people do have their dips in passion, there's no guarantee that they will be back.

I think the club and the AFL rely on people's passion and love for their clubs. The Saints in particular need to be careful about this as there isn't anything 'St Kilda' about the public face of the club.

[WayneJudson42]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

This is on the money.

People's passion for footy comes and goes - often comes when the team is winning, and goes when they're not.

However the love of the club keeps them on the hook. Keeps them coming back. Keeps them forking out the cash.

The problem now, is that there isn't much to love about the club. To many, it doesn't feel like the club at all.


So when people do have their dips in passion, there's no guarantee that they will be back.

I think the club and the AFL rely on people's passion and love for their clubs. The Saints in particular need to be careful about this as

So what's the solution?

And what specifically isn't there to love about the club?

And who exactly are the "many" that you speak on behalf of?

[plugger66]

I agree with RF and Ev here.

A few years ago my life revolved around St Kilda. Everything else was secondary. The club was finally one of the big boys again and we were the most exciting team to watch, both on and off field. We had our group of young guns mids Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo etc, our seasoned vets in Harvey, Thompson, Peckett and Hudghton and our lethal forwards Riewoldt, Koscitzke, Gehrig, Hamill and Milne. That was all put together by our innovative and strong-willed coach.

Now we have about one third of that team left, with the departures largely being replaces by a rotation of mediocre, seemingly passionless rejects. Out go Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Thompson, Powell, Peckett, Penny and Voss, in comes Birss, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, M. Clarke, Attard, Wall, Begley, Ray, King, Dawson, Schneider and Dempster.

We play boring football. Blind supporters can argue on and on but the reality is that we are the most boring team in the competition to watch. And this has resulted in us going from having the most television coverage and night games to the most Sunday afternoon games.

And then the way the club treats the supporters and media is pathetic. There is very little incentive for someone like me who can't get to many games to become a member anymore. I used to love seeing interviews every week on tv and in the paper, we had a group of players and staff who valued the supporters. Yes, we weren't perfecy back then. e spent far too little money on recruiting and cnditining. But they were doing a lot more right than the current mob is.

The problem now, is that there isn't much to love about the club. To many, it doesn't feel like the club at all.

/quote]

Why many? Who are these many? At least you are not generalising.