Seb's manager apparently testing the market

[st.byron]

Let us self-reflect on your comment that Seb is a bit of a down-hill skier.

Seb won 2 B&F’s when we were down the bottom so that is a conundrum already. How does a down-hill skier do that.

Last year Seb was our 2nd best player against Richmond which we lost in the most important final we have played in past 10 years.

This year Seb was in our best 4 times according to Saintsational – GWS, Geelong, Port & Melbourne – All finalists and 3 out of 4 we lost.

Seb’s record shows he generally performs when the chips are down but he is not a match winner which is why, IMO, he is not a fan favourite for some but the club rates him highly.

So if we are into self-reflecting why have you let yourself think the opposite?

I am guessing you hate the Richo era so much that you want anyone closely associated to go and make things up in your brain to justify it. But getting rid of everyone will not erase the past.

You're right that there's a hangover for me from the Richo era. So that's a fair point.
Ross has played some good games, no doubt. His record is solid, especially in the years he won the B & F.
To me he goes missing way too often. He doesn't squib, he just spends too much time not having an impact. That combined with his unreliable disposal is enough for me to regard him as I do. If he stays, okay. There are others I'd like to see go.
But if he does go, I don't think it will that big a loss.
And if he is genuinely testing the FA waters, then that will tell us how the rest of the competition regard him. EDIT : See Maverick's post below. .

[saynta]

The way the article reads is like Billings is more likely to stay than Ross. Ross does scon some kicks, but I would still have him in the side before Billings! I guess it comes down to what they want $$$ wise? Ross winning 2 x past BNF's (poor years) he may think he is worth more than he is?

I hate seeing former Saints captains running around in enemy colours absolutely hate it. It has happened far too many times for my liking

Like Bruce "Bulldog" Duperouzel!

Luke Ball, Stuart Trott, Bruce Duperouzel, Glen Elliott, (I think) and worst of all, Carl Ditterich.

Thanks for that Saynta, you just sent me searching for a bottle of Scotch to offset tonight's nightmare.

And you forgot Ian Stewart!

Yeah I did.

[maverick]

Some of this gets confused
Was he a good player?
Yes - you can’t fluke b&f, especially two

Is he now!
I say no

Why
Where does he fit?
His tagging efforts are hit and miss
His disposal is ok, decision making is ok but

Under pressure
He is too slow to make decisions and mostly takes options too safe which slows our ball movement

Question
Can he play the lachie hunter role?

I think it’s time to move on and inject more pace and flexibility to our team

But no need to bag him either way

[saynta]

Just sit there and don’t question any of it, people don’t understand that you can respect someone but always make comment on a deficiency etc. People talk about Ross like he would have been a walk up start in the Richmond side ffs.

Agree with you. I'm not a Seb Ross fan. I think he's a bit of a downhill skier. His disposal is questionable and he goes missing too readily. I don't think he would be a big loss. Saying so doesn't indicate disrespect.

If he's genuinely shopping around then the rest of the comp will tell us how he's regarded.

f*** me.

And you don't consider calling him a downhill hill skier, insulting. Of course it is disrespectfully. Extremely.

Dude you would be one of the most disrespectful people on here to people whom you don't consider measure up to your standards.
You're constantly casually calling people insulting names.
I'm not commenting about Seb Ross the human being. I'm commenting about Seb Ross the footy player. Am sure he's an excellent bloke and well loved and liked by those who know him.
We're on here to give our opinions about footy and those that play it.
That's my opinion about Seb Ross the footy player.

Resorting to lying now are you. I never call fellow posters any names at all. Failed coaches and opposition players are a different matter and fair game

And don't call me dude.

Never said you call other posters insulting names.
Didn't realise calling people lying pricks or any of the other insults you come up for individuals was fine and dandy if they're not Saints players.

You don't get it do you? I don't bag saints officials or players. As a general rule, I never have. Anyway it's a no no on here. Against the rules. So is insulting other posters by name calling.

Everyone else is fair game. I have little or no respect for those people you are referring to.

Calling Seb a down hill skier is terribly insulting.

[saynta]

I might surprise a few here. Josh.

A lot more upside

If Seb leaves it's time to move on and look to the future,

I'm not surprised Saynta. You are loyal, not stupid.

[skeptic]

Bet Tom Lee was positively motivated by comments that particular forumites’ heart’s sank when he was selected… or that Lonie and Parker would be rapt with comments that they aren’t good enough and deserve to be delisted… and that Zac Dawson is a girl and a mercenary

Yeah but that’s not bagging Saints players is it

Like I said… self-reflection is hard

[st.byron]

Bet Tom Lee was positively motivated by comments that particular forumites’ heart’s sank when he was selected… or that Lonie and Parker would be rapt with comments that they aren’t good enough and deserve to be delisted… and that Zac Dawson is a girl and a mercenary

Yeah but that’s not bagging Saints players is it

Like I said… self-reflection is hard

Nailed it.

[st.byron]

Some of this gets confused
Was he a good player?
Yes - you can’t fluke b&f, especially two

Is he now!
I say no

Why
Where does he fit?
His tagging efforts are hit and miss
His disposal is ok, decision making is ok but

Under pressure
He is too slow to make decisions and mostly takes options too safe which slows our ball movement

Question
Can he play the lachie hunter role?

I think it’s time to move on and inject more pace and flexibility to our team

But no need to bag him either way

Thanks for that Maverick. You've summed up my perspective as well.

[saynta]

Bet Tom Lee was positively motivated by comments that particular forumites’ heart’s sank when he was selected… or that Lonie and Parker would be rapt with comments that they aren’t good enough and deserve to be delisted… and that Zac Dawson is a girl and a mercenary

Yeah but that’s not bagging Saints players is it

Like I said… self-reflection is hard

Nailed it.

I said "As a general rule, I never have."

Don't resile from any of the comments I may or may not have made years ago.

[Ghost Like]

If you love something, let it go.

[The_Dud]

I am in the same boat as many that Seb is now quite ordinary and easily replaced, and maybe even borderline best 22 next season if he stays.

I guess we'll all find out soon who's correct, if he goes then he must be more valuable to someone than I thought, if he stays I guess the other 17 clubs agree he's not much chop.

[Wayne42]

If the 17 other clubs decide Ross is not much chop and he stays at the Saints, how does that help the Saints improve.

I really like the off season watching how all clubs construct their playing lists for the following season, i just don't like how slowly it all happens.

Definitely after the Granny the list action will ramp up.

[skeptic]

Bet Tom Lee was positively motivated by comments that particular forumites’ heart’s sank when he was selected… or that Lonie and Parker would be rapt with comments that they aren’t good enough and deserve to be delisted… and that Zac Dawson is a girl and a mercenary

Yeah but that’s not bagging Saints players is it

Like I said… self-reflection is hard

Nailed it.

I said "As a general rule, I never have."

Don't resile from any of the comments I may or may not have made years ago.

Do you know what the word “never” means?

It’s different to the word “don’t”

“As a general rule I don’t make negative comments etc etc” is one thing.

“I never have” is an absolute statement.
One can’t ‘never have done something’ that they’ve done repeatedly!!!

It feels weird having to explain that

Especially when factoring in comments about Jack Lonie who has just now come out of contract (again). Seems logical that discussion about his place on the list based on this years performance would have been posted within the last few weeks

Wonder what’s in the history

[The_Dud]

Bet Tom Lee was positively motivated by comments that particular forumites’ heart’s sank when he was selected… or that Lonie and Parker would be rapt with comments that they aren’t good enough and deserve to be delisted… and that Zac Dawson is a girl and a mercenary

Yeah but that’s not bagging Saints players is it

Like I said… self-reflection is hard

Nailed it.

I said "As a general rule, I never have."

Don't resile from any of the comments I may or may not have made years ago.

Do you know what the word “never” means?

It’s different to the word “don’t”

“As a general rule I don’t make negative comments etc etc” is one thing.

“I never have” is an absolute statement.
One can’t ‘never have done something’ that they’ve done repeatedly!!!

It feels weird having to explain that

Especially when factoring in comments about Jack Lonie who has just now come out of contract (again). Seems logical that discussion about his place on the list based on this years performance would have been posted within the last few weeks

Wonder what’s in the history

I just look forward to the day Seb leaves for more money elsewhere Saynta labelling him a mercenary like Dawson

[B.M]

I’ve bagged many stk players

They are professional athletes!!! They are paid money to perform.

It’s a pressurised career

They get big money, but are under a microscope to perform

What I don’t do is bag players that have earned high levels of respect!!!

[saynta]

Bet Tom Lee was positively motivated by comments that particular forumites’ heart’s sank when he was selected… or that Lonie and Parker would be rapt with comments that they aren’t good enough and deserve to be delisted… and that Zac Dawson is a girl and a mercenary

Yeah but that’s not bagging Saints players is it

Like I said… self-reflection is hard

Nailed it.

I said "As a general rule, I never have."

Don't resile from any of the comments I may or may not have made years ago.

Do you know what the word “never” means?

It’s different to the word “don’t”

“As a general rule I don’t make negative comments etc etc” is one thing.

“I never have” is an absolute statement.
One can’t ‘never have done something’ that they’ve done repeatedly!!!

It feels weird having to explain that

Especially when factoring in comments about Jack Lonie who has just now come out of contract (again). Seems logical that discussion about his place on the list based on this years performance would have been posted within the last few weeks

Wonder what’s in the history

I just look forward to the day Seb leaves for more money elsewhere Saynta labelling him a mercenary like Dawson

Never going to happen. I respect Seb. Stay or go. Alright with me.

[skeptic]

I’ve bagged many stk players

They are professional athletes!!! They are paid money to perform.

It’s a pressurised career

They get big money, but are under a microscope to perform

What I don’t do is bag players that have earned high levels of respect!!!

Like Cyril Rioli?

[B.M]

Cyril Rioli is the most overrated footballer I have known

He played 189 games 275 goals 15ppg - considered a champion

Compare that to Stephen Milne

Played 275 games 574 goals

Yet ask most chumps on the street who was the better player (non StK)

I do think Cyril was a good small forward, but not as good as
Betts, Milne, Farmer, Matera, Greene

And certainly not the super star the media peddle

Leigh Matthews (330 games) and Kevin Bartlett (403 games) were champions
They kicked 900+ and 750+ goals
They were superstars

Not someone with less than half their careers

[B.M]

Also Cyril was not a saint

[skeptic]

Cyril Rioli is the most overrated footballer I have known

He played 189 games 275 goals 15ppg - considered a champion

Compare that to Stephen Milne

Played 275 games 574 goals

Yet ask most chumps on the street who was the better player (non StK)

I do think Cyril was a good small forward, but not as good as
Betts, Milne, Farmer, Matera, Greene

And certainly not the super star the media peddle

Leigh Matthews (330 games) and Kevin Bartlett (403 games) were champions
They kicked 900+ and 750+ goals
They were superstars

Not someone with less than half their careers

So you’re saying that a highly rated and respected footballer with a number of accolades that saw both team and individual success is overrated

As in you don’t respect him/his ability as much as you perceive others to respect him…

Hasn’t earned that high level of respect in your estimations…


























Cough cough

[skeptic]

Random story that I would apply to this discussion

I was asked to do a mental health assessment for someone in the police cells tied to the area service for which I work.

This man was reported to have been acting highly erratic since his arrest.
The man wasn’t particularly unwell but was withdrawing very heavily off a number of substances hence he decompensated quite badly in that environment over 12-15 hours or some.

He’d been picked up after stealing some petty crap (sandwich and drink) from a servo and then starting a fight with some random people. He was homeless and didn’t have money for food.

Anyway, I get talking to him and he starts telling me about how the people he was fighting with were people that he went to high school with that dropped out about the same time he did.

He then went on this big rant about how people like that are unemployable, drug users that leach of government pensions and just commit crimes because they are rotten to the core criminals with no skills. He then stated that they should all be locked up and the key should be thrown away.

I went silent for about 30s and just let what he said hang in the air…
Just wanted to see if he would make the connection.

He got a bit irritated with that and asked to finish up the interview so that he could do an in person bail application.

So anyway here’s my question to this forum…

Do any of you guys ever experience these moments where your talking and sharing your ideas with friends/family and they stare at you before going all silent?

Is it one of those things where you can’t quite figure out why it keeps happening?

Hmmm…
My bet is that like in the story above… most ppl pbly don’t ever notice it.

[B.M]

I do rate Cyril

Just don’t rate him as highly as others do - he was a good player playing forward pocket in the best team in the comp for much of his career.

I rate home where his numbers suggest

Somewhere between Jamie Cripps and Stephen Milne.

If Cyril was the superstar he was painted out to be in the media
Why didn’t he win more of the ball?
Why didn’t he kick more goals??

Why didn’t he win B&Fs and Brownlows???

He did make AA

Which is largely influence by the media

He did win a NS medal

Which probably should have gone to chip Frawley

Cyril played well and exposed the zoning and pressing WC defenders out the back

But Frawley neutralised WCs biggest threat (Kennedy) and I believe took 10 marks himself.

[skeptic]

No one’s denying you your opinion

Must be nice

[skeptic]

So you’re saying that you don’t criticise players that have earned respect and you use that rationalise to attack those who are less than completely complimentary about Seb Ross.

Then I’m the next breath, you run down an immensely respected and celebrated player that has enjoyed significant team and individual respect

So in your mind…
What differentiates what other supporters are doing with what you’re doing?
How are you balancing those conflicting scenarios?

I really hope it’s not just a case of perceived superiority of opinion.
Is that it? That’s it isn’t it.

[Ghost Like]

Also Cyril was not a saint

I must admit I didn't like how over the top Brereton would go on about Cyril, that was ridiculous.

That said, I loved watching Cyril perform, may not get a truckload of it but when he did, wow! His pressure and implied pressure was scary.

All that said, I wish he had been a Saint. If that had been the case, the 2009 Cup would have been ours, possibly even the 2010 Cup.