King Conundrum

[SAINT-LEE]

Our King is being surpassed by the Sun of a King.

What's the difference?
Why is Ben kicking 21% more accurately than Max?
They play so similar. Obviously some things are different.
But both teams lost their preferred ruckman. The midfields are getting similar outcomes.

For some reason, Ben is taking pack marks and kicking truer.

Max is getting very similar opportunities but missing badly and often.

I know everyone is different but both are faced with difficult situations as team-mates are injured, ball supply is not great and they are often 2 vs 1in
marking contests.

Did we get the wrong King? We have been excusing Max by saying he's young....but that's the b1tch of it for Max....he's got a clone playing in similar circumstances who is kicking ass.

[SaintPav]

Lloyd hinted that Ben will try and get to St Kilda at some stage. Could be as soon as the end of 2021.

[Darth Vader]

Career stats:
Goals: Max 1.4, Ben 1.5
Score involvements: Max 4.1, Ben 3.8

Not too worried.

[samuraisaint]

Lloyd hinted that Ben will try and get to St Kilda at some stage. Could be as soon as the end of 2021.

That really needs to happen!

That happens and we challenge - seriously - for a Grand Final berth.

[n1ck]

Did we get the wrong King? We have been excusing Max by saying he's young....but that's the b1tch of it for Max....he's got a clone playing in similar circumstances who is kicking ass.

Ben has also had an extra 12 months of senior footy with Max missing his entire rookie season coming off that ACL.

So the situation is not the same despite them being identical twins.

[SAINT-LEE]

Did we get the wrong King? We have been excusing Max by saying he's young....but that's the b1tch of it for Max....he's got a clone playing in similar circumstances who is kicking ass.

Ben has also had an extra 12 months of senior footy with Max missing his entire rookie season coming off that ACL.

So the situation is not the same despite them being identical twins.

That's a fair point.
So, would it be possible maybe Max's lack of game time is playing into a lack of confidence in his ability or his strength & skill are possibly behind Ben?

[WellardSaint]

Ben has 5.1 to 3/4 time against Swines
From 6 marks, 8 kicks
Let's swap the boys, in secret- offer Ben a truckload of money.
Not like anyone at the Suns would notice haha

edit: the King family of Beaumaris would love it, they've just been talking to Ben via skype or Zoom.
Get him home for a few months.
And Max likes Qld, how well did he go in the Noosa hub?

[SAINT-LEE]

Career stats:
Goals: Max 1.4, Ben 1.5
Score involvements: Max 4.1, Ben 3.8

Not too worried.

Yeah, I'm not too worried but I am a tad concerned.
After today Ben's avg. is 3 goals per game...but maybe Max will kick 10 ? That'd be a friggin' dream!!!

I'm looking at this season where they both have similar team situations in ruck, midfield, etc. But a fair point was raised that Max has played 14 less games and this could be affecting his skill, experience in KPP Forward, his confidence, etc.

The marking gap isn't as huge as it feels between them, but it is painful when Ben is converting kicks after marking to goal at almost double the rate.

[SAINT-LEE]

Ben has 5.1 to 3/4 time against Swines
From 6 marks, 8 kicks
Let's swap the boys, in secret- offer Ben a truckload of money.
Not like anyone at the Suns would notice haha

I can't imagine getting them both on field.
It'd be Wakelin lads x 1000!!!

[n1ck]

Not just 14 games, but also one and a half pre-seasons to start his pro career and most of that final U18 season too.

It's a fair chunk of experience advantage to Ben.

Career stats:
Goals: Max 1.4, Ben 1.5
Score involvements: Max 4.1, Ben 3.8

Not too worried.

Yeah, I'm not too worried but I am a tad concerned.
After today Ben's avg. is 3 goals per game...but maybe Max will kick 10 ? That'd be a friggin' dream!!!

I'm looking at this season where they both have similar team situations in ruck, midfield, etc. But a fair point was raised that Max has played 14 less games and this could be affecting his skill, experience in KPP Forward, his confidence, etc.

The marking gap isn't as huge as it feels between them, but it is painful when Ben is converting kicks after marking to goal at almost double the rate.

[Munga]

Ben looks more solid on his feet. Max looks wobbily and tired in his approach to goal, like he's walking on a tightrope one foot in front of the other and almost tripping over himself. He also needs to suck in the big ones and summon the energy for the shot.

[Teflon]

Ben has 5.1 to 3/4 time against Swines
From 6 marks, 8 kicks
Let's swap the boys, in secret- offer Ben a truckload of money.
Not like anyone at the Suns would notice haha

I can't imagine getting them both on field.
It'd be Wakelin lads x 1000!!!

I think you’ll find Bens 12 month head start on Max at AFL is significant
IF we got both these it’s be 10x Wakelin twins
We could seriously challenge as long as we supplement with 1-2 A grade mids, another youthful ruck to support Marshall post Ryder and 1 more tall defender...

[SAINT-LEE]

Not just 14 games, but also one and a half pre-seasons to start his pro career and most of that final U18 season too.

It's a fair chunk of experience advantage to Ben.

Career stats:
Goals: Max 1.4, Ben 1.5
Score involvements: Max 4.1, Ben 3.8

Not too worried.

Yeah, I'm not too worried but I am a tad concerned.
After today Ben's avg. is 3 goals per game...but maybe Max will kick 10 ? That'd be a friggin' dream!!!

I'm looking at this season where they both have similar team situations in ruck, midfield, etc. But a fair point was raised that Max has played 14 less games and this could be affecting his skill, experience in KPP Forward, his confidence, etc.

The marking gap isn't as huge as it feels between them, but it is painful when Ben is converting kicks after marking to goal at almost double the rate.

Yeah, I get that, but using that formula....Ben played 50% less games at Haileybury and had less starts at Sandringham than Max. It was only when Max had his ACL in year 12 that Ben started for the first time at Full forward. He had spent his lifetime in footy sitting on the bench, swapping in for his brother when Max needed a rest.

So, either Max is going to be incredible hot s*** next year or how many years do we have to give him to surpass a brother he supposedly was much more talented and experienced than ??

[SAINT-LEE]

Ben looks more solid on his feet. Max looks wobbily and tired in his approach to goal, like he's walking on a tightrope one foot in front of the other and almost tripping over himself. He also needs to suck in the big ones and summon the energy for the shot.

I've wondered if he's carrying a bit of a niggle injury? I have said a few times it almost seems he's limping - like his right knee is sore?
Clubs never reveal the true injury tolls on players in season. Anyone else see this?

[Teflon]

Not just 14 games, but also one and a half pre-seasons to start his pro career and most of that final U18 season too.

It's a fair chunk of experience advantage to Ben.

Career stats:
Goals: Max 1.4, Ben 1.5
Score involvements: Max 4.1, Ben 3.8

Not too worried.

Yeah, I'm not too worried but I am a tad concerned.
After today Ben's avg. is 3 goals per game...but maybe Max will kick 10 ? That'd be a friggin' dream!!!

I'm looking at this season where they both have similar team situations in ruck, midfield, etc. But a fair point was raised that Max has played 14 less games and this could be affecting his skill, experience in KPP Forward, his confidence, etc.

The marking gap isn't as huge as it feels between them, but it is painful when Ben is converting kicks after marking to goal at almost double the rate.

Yeah, I get that, but using that formula....Ben played 50% less games at Haileybury and had less starts at Sandringham than Max. It was only when Max had his ACL in year 12 that Ben started for the first time at Full forward. He had spent his lifetime in footy sitting on the bench, swapping in for his brother when Max needed a rest.

So, either Max is going to be incredible hot s*** next year or how many years do we have to give him to surpass a brother he supposedly was much more talented and experienced than ??

Max won’t be incredible at all if he continues to play in sides who obsess about bombing balls into fwd 50 and can’t kick to his leading advantage

It’s same old st Kilda .....incredibly talented youngster that we demand become Tony Lockett overnight so we can have our 1 idol while the rest of the side goes to shyte and the REAL teams who play TEAM football (see Richmond) win Premierships.

[Teflon]

Our club motto shouldn’t be Fortius Quo Fidelius
It should be:
“St Kilda...working together...separately”

[SAINT-LEE]

Not just 14 games, but also one and a half pre-seasons to start his pro career and most of that final U18 season too.

It's a fair chunk of experience advantage to Ben.

Career stats:
Goals: Max 1.4, Ben 1.5
Score involvements: Max 4.1, Ben 3.8

Not too worried.

Yeah, I'm not too worried but I am a tad concerned.
After today Ben's avg. is 3 goals per game...but maybe Max will kick 10 ? That'd be a friggin' dream!!!

I'm looking at this season where they both have similar team situations in ruck, midfield, etc. But a fair point was raised that Max has played 14 less games and this could be affecting his skill, experience in KPP Forward, his confidence, etc.

The marking gap isn't as huge as it feels between them, but it is painful when Ben is converting kicks after marking to goal at almost double the rate.

Yeah, I get that, but using that formula....Ben played 50% less games at Haileybury and had less starts at Sandringham than Max. It was only when Max had his ACL in year 12 that Ben started for the first time at Full forward. He had spent his lifetime in footy sitting on the bench, swapping in for his brother when Max needed a rest.

So, either Max is going to be incredible hot s*** next year or how many years do we have to give him to surpass a brother he supposedly was much more talented and experienced than ??

Max won’t be incredible at all if he continues to play in sides who obsess about bombing balls into fwd 50 and can’t kick to his leading advantage

It’s same old st Kilda .....incredibly talented youngster that we demand become Tony Lockett overnight so we can have our 1 idol while the rest of the side goes to shyte and the REAL teams who play TEAM football (see Richmond) win Premierships.

I heard Ratts comment on exactly this...he said when the possessions out of middle are fragmented the linking from mid to forward become chaotic. He said players know there's few centre advantages so they feel pressure to score and forget to control the play and bomb away. He said he's watched it his whole life and even done it himself and it's the worst outcome to bomb away, he actually said we'd be better off to kick it backwards than bomb it forward.

I agree. If we had 2 or 3 hot sh1te tall and medium forwards....sure, have a go but Membrey is playing high and King is getting slaughtered.

[The_Dud]

Max would be dominating in a team that could move the ball quick and hit up a lead.

[Wayne42]

Let's hope the 2nd best King brother has a good game against kennies mob.

[WellardSaint]

Not just 14 games, but also one and a half pre-seasons to start his pro career and most of that final U18 season too.

It's a fair chunk of experience advantage to Ben.

Career stats:
Goals: Max 1.4, Ben 1.5
Score involvements: Max 4.1, Ben 3.8

Not too worried.

Yeah, I'm not too worried but I am a tad concerned.
After today Ben's avg. is 3 goals per game...but maybe Max will kick 10 ? That'd be a friggin' dream!!!

I'm looking at this season where they both have similar team situations in ruck, midfield, etc. But a fair point was raised that Max has played 14 less games and this could be affecting his skill, experience in KPP Forward, his confidence, etc.

The marking gap isn't as huge as it feels between them, but it is painful when Ben is converting kicks after marking to goal at almost double the rate.

Yeah, I get that, but using that formula....Ben played 50% less games at Haileybury and had less starts at Sandringham than Max. It was only when Max had his ACL in year 12 that Ben started for the first time at Full forward. He had spent his lifetime in footy sitting on the bench, swapping in for his brother when Max needed a rest.

So, either Max is going to be incredible hot s*** next year or how many years do we have to give him to surpass a brother he supposedly was much more talented and experienced than ??

Max won’t be incredible at all if he continues to play in sides who obsess about bombing balls into fwd 50 and can’t kick to his leading advantage

It’s same old st Kilda .....incredibly talented youngster that we demand become Tony Lockett overnight so we can have our 1 idol while the rest of the side goes to shyte and the REAL teams who play TEAM football (see Richmond) win Premierships.

Gawd, Teflon, you're making too much sense
If we could turn back time, the club should've suspended the #12 jumper, and give King another jumper. I don't care which one.
Putting that much pressure on a young guy who is built like a baby giraffe and moves like one.
He doesn't know his own body yet

[WellardSaint]

King is the new messiah!!!
Remember Rod Owen getting sent to play a praccy game in Benalla or somewhere in country Vic, as a schoolboy.
Kicked 6-7 goals.
One of the club officials whispered in his ear "you'll be captain by age 22, bugger school, that's for losers"

How did THAT work out?
Those who ignore the mistakes of history, are doomed to repeat them (or something)

[B.M]

Ben leads more than Max and is a more reliable kick.

If both were to play in the same team, I’d play Ben from the goalsquare and Max higher.

[SaintPav]

Lloyd hinted that Ben will try and get to St Kilda at some stage. Could be as soon as the end of 2021.

That really needs to happen!

That happens and we challenge - seriously - for a Grand Final berth.

Add Zach Merret, a coherent/organised playing system and game plan combined with a strong desire and you just may be right.

[bigred]

Max generally cops the best backman.
Ben is switching between half back and half forward week by week.

Ben has an extra 12 full months playing in the system.

Hopefully Ben decides to come down. I was thinking that it would be good to have one across half back and one forward. But I reckon both up forward could actually work.

Max is going to be a monster.

[bangaulegend]

I just hope we end up with both of them & I think it can happen obviously we will have to give something big to get him but IMO it will be worth it.